# Thread: Video of the motion of negative mass, dark matter, dark energy

1. ## Video of the motion of negative mass, dark matter, dark energy

I’m sorry. I can’t English well. My native language is not English.
I make simulation video of the negative mass. Negative mass(energy) can explain the dark energy and dark matter.

Motion of the negative mass and dark matter -1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlDl9w8ariI

Motion of the negative mass and dark matter -2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zEq6...eature=related

Many problems explained by negative mass
- Almost uniformly distribution of the dark matter,
- Non-observation of the star and galaxy consists of dark matter,
- Dark matter clumping around galaxy,
- Rotation curve of the galaxy -Centripetal force effect,
- Low interaction between dark matter when collision occurs between dark matter,
- Collision of Bullet Cluster,
- Non-observation of dark matter at the Earth and Solar system (Xenon100, CDMS II…)
- Nonbaryonic dark matter condition,

- Observed value of the dark energy(10^(-47)GeV^4),
- Repulsive force needed for accelerating expansion,
- It is show that result of original field equation(Λ=0) of general relativity is right.

HSS(The High-z Supernova Search) team : Brian P. Schmidt, et al :
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9805201 14P, 26~29lines.
If Λ=0, Ω_m = - 0.38(±0.22) : negative mass density

SCP(Supernova Cosmology Project) team : S.Perlmutter et al.
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9812473 7P
If Λ=0, Ω_m = - 0.4(±0.1) : negative mass density

========
For the momentum conservation, Refer to 5th, 6th posting.
http://www.thescienceforum.com/Dark-...%21-21177t.php

Refer to 5th, 6th posting.
1-2)The law of motion of negative mass and positive mass
1-3)The law of motion of negative mass and negative mass

=======
Hypothesis of dark matter and dark energy with negative mass :
http://vixra.org/abs/0907.0015
Last edited by pzkpfw; 2012-Feb-15 at 03:43 AM. Reason: Unembed videos. See rule 8.

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Note that the mass also shows up in how an object responds to a force, i.e.

F = ma

3. ## Gravity is special

Originally Posted by dockeen
Note that the mass also shows up in how an object responds to a force, i.e.

F = ma
What do you mean?
Gravity is specially force.
Other force equation is force equation. But gravity has an acceleration equation.

ma = - GMm/r^2 is
a = - GM/r^2

m' = -m (m>0)
m'a = - GMm'/r^2
a = - GM/r^2

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Tell me this - if I have a negative mass ping pong ball in my hand here on Earth, and I let it go, what happens to it?

Which way does it go, up or down?

5. ## Down

I’m sorry. I can’t English well. My native language is not English.
So my expression is very limited.

In generally, concept of negative mass has two models.
Model-1 is
Inertial mass > 0
(Active and Passive) Gravitational mass < 0
At this model, the principle of equivalence is not valid.

Model-2 is
Inertial mass < 0
(Active and Passive) Gravitational mass < 0
At this model, the principle of equivalence is valid.

My negative mass model is model-2.

Originally Posted by dockeen
Tell me this - if I have a negative mass ping pong ball in my hand here on Earth, and I let it go, what happens to it?

Which way does it go, up or down?
In the simulation video-1, that’s case is
-m1 = -100, m2=+10000
(Negative mass ping pong ball) (Earth)
( m1>0, m2>0, v1=0, v2=0)
That’s situation is
(small negative mass) |-m1| << m2 (massive positive mass)

In the equation,
-m1a1 = - Gm2(-m1)/r^2
a1 = - Gm2/r^2 (Spherical coordinate)
+m2a2 = - G(-m1)m2/r^2
a2 = + Gm1/r^2 (Spherical coordinate)

In the spherical coordinate
a1= - r^, a2 =+r^
Is, In the rectangular coordinate
a1=+ x^, a2=+ x^
: Negative mass is accelerated in the direction of positive mass, and positive mass is accelerated in the direction to be far away from negative mass.

But, important point is acceleration term.
Size of acceleration is decided by other side mass.
a1 = Gm2/r^2 >> a2 = Gm1/r^2

So, negative mass ping pong ball is accelerated in the direction of the Earth.
And they will meet at the Earth surface. Result is "Down"
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Jul-18 at 12:14 AM.

6. ## Negative mass is stable at the maximum point!

I’m sorry. I can’t English well. My native language is not English.

We studied for the negative energy state does not existed at the Classical Mechanics, Modern physics and Quantum Mechanics

Please read to the below explain.
And then, please think about the means of that negative mass has a harmonic oscillation at the maximum point.

----------
II-3. Negative mass is stable at the maximum point!
therefore the catastrophe to energy level of minus infinity never happens

Nature prefers stable state, and has the tendency to go to stable state. Additionally, this can be expressed in another way that nature prefers low energy state, and has the tendency to go to low energy state.

Such an idea is frequently used as a logic which denies the existence of negative mass. That is, if there is negative mass and negative energy level, negative mass spontaneously emits energy to be stable, and goes to energy state of minus infinity, so finally it is confronted by catastrophe.

In case of positive mass, stable state means low energy state, therefore it is not necessary to divide which one nature prefers among two states(stable state and low energy state).
By the way, does stable state mean low energy state also in case of negative mass?

In the negative mass,
F= - ∇U, F= - ma (m>0), a = - F/m

As examined in the question of Harmonic oscillation, in case of positive mass, a point of minimum value which energy is the lowest is stable. However, in case of negative mass, stable equilibrium is a point of maximum value, not a point of minimum value. So negative mass is toward a point of maximum value to be stable, not a point of minimum value which energy is low.

In the world of positive mass, ground state is a point that energy is low, but in case of negative mass, ground state is a point that energy is the highest.

Accordingly, in the world of negative mass, energy level is filled from the highest to the lowest, and stable state means the highest energy state, so the catastrophe to energy level of minus infinity never happens.

-----------------
Negative mass(energy) originated from relativistic energy eq.
E^2 = (pc)^2 + (m0c^2)^2
E = ± root( (pc)^2 + (m0c^2)^2)
So, E = - root( (pc)^2 + (m0c^2)^2) = - mc^2
It is a solution also.

However,
In the classical mechanics, modern physics, quantum mechanics,

We thought that "Nature prefers stable state, and has the tendency to go to stable state. Additionally, this can be expressed in another way that nature prefers low energy state, and has the tendency to go to low energy state. That is, if there is negative mass and negative energy level, negative mass spontaneously emits energy to be stable, and goes to energy state of minus infinity, so finally it is confronted by catastrophe."

So, the solution of negative energy was discarded.
And only DIRAC has applied the solution of negative energy to antiparticles.
But, antiparticle's mass has a positive value. Finally, antiparticle is not negative mass particle.

But, I find out very important property of negative mass.
It is that negative mass is stable at the maximum point, so the catastrophe to energy level of minus infinity never happens.

Therefore, at this time,
It is necessary to watch carefully the fact that all sort of physical laws such as Law of energy conservation or Law of conservation of momentum do not deny negative mass. All sorts of physical laws do not deny them, thus negative mass(energy) can exist!

Assuming that negative mass(energy) and positive mass(energy) were born together at the beginning of universe, most problems are solved.

========
Hypothesis of Dark Matter and Dark Energy with Negative Mass :
http://vixra.org/abs/0907.0015
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Jul-18 at 09:47 AM. Reason: typo

7. ## Centripetal force in galaxy from Negative Mass(Dark Matter) distributed out of Galaxy

Dark matter and dark energy come from one origin

Calculating centripetal force in galaxy from Negative Mass(Dark Matter) distributed out of galaxy

fig11. caption : Revolution velocity of galaxy. The revolution velocity through the total quantity of matter that can be observed is A, while the actual observed value is B.

We observed not positive mass but gravitational effect.

This study mentioned the effect of centripetal force described previously, and the effect of centripetal force of negative mass with the description of dark matter. The researcher suggests that it is possible to prove the existence of negative mass with the comparison between observed value and revolution velocity of star according to the distance in galaxy which is calculated from negative mass distributed out of galaxy.

fig12. caption : Negative mass effect on arms of galaxy. The actual observed spiral galaxy is on the left. Since repulsive effects occur between negative masses in Newton’s dynamics, negative masses will be distributed all over space because it cannot form large mass structures like stars. Negative mass within the galaxy is cancelled out by attraction from large positive mass during the galaxy formation process. Furthermore, the space, other that the galaxy, will maintain the distribution state of negative mass. - Please view to the simulation video-1,-2

When negative mass is distributed uniformly, if we examine the area of galaxy diameter working the gravity on the basis of mass m for the analysis, there is no negative mass in the space of spiral space on the left, so negative mass can exist as much as the size of black and white on the right. negative mass on the right works the force on positive mass m on the origin to the left(positive mass moves after receiving the force that becomes farther from negative mass), and this direction will be in keeping with the central direction of gravity of real galaxy.

From the calculation of centripetal force in Newton dynamics, the important matters to calculate gravity effect of negative mass are the size and model of empty space of negative mass by real galaxy on the left, in case of spiral galaxy or oval galaxy, it may be close to oval if we consider the fact that most of mass is placed on galaxy core, the rotation of galaxy, and the gravitational radius of galaxy core, thus we regard empty space of negative mass as spherical or oval, and perform calculation to compare with observed value.

fig13
caption : Effective negative mass.
The negative mass distribution, where gravity is applied without cancellation of the oblique field located on the right side.

Adding the term of centripetal force by negative mass to the term of centripetal force by positive mass as described above, we compare revolution velocity of star and the density of negative mass, then expand this to apply to other galaxies, and we can inspect if the interpretation of dark matter distributed out of galaxy is proper or not.

The distribution of negative mass that remains without being offset in Fig12 & Fig. 13 is crescent-shaped, so it seems to be difficult to calculate, but

1) if we assume that the white empty space on the left is full with negative mass and positive mass at the same density fig.12 & fig13,
white empty space(0) = (+mc^2) + (-mc^2) =0

2) here negative mass is uniformly distributed over the whole area, so the effect of negative mass on mass m is 0. Remaining positive mass is distributed over the white area on the left at the density of negative mass, and

3) the gravity that uniformly distributed positive mass(same density to the negative mass density) works on positive mass m place on radius r is worked only by the distribution of mass within radius r.- Shell Theorem

fig14
caption : Equal to the degree of gravity that is applied on the equally distributed positive mass within the radius r of the left side.
The gravitational effect from negative mass, which functions at mass m is equal to the gravitational effect from positive mass within radius r.

Therefore, the effect of negative mass that remains out of galaxy without being offset can make it approximate to the gravity generated by the distribution of positive mass within the radius R in galaxy

In equation(103)

Equation (107) is applied to arbitrary spherical or oval galaxy, and in case of normal shaped spiral galaxy, the distance which spherical approximation can be applied from the center of galaxy will be effective.

So if we consider that the distribution of negative mass out of galaxy comes under isothermal, the effect of mass in galaxy by the distribution of negative mass out of galaxy is proportional to r as shown in equation (108 ), and this is in keeping with observed dark matter.

Positive mass dark matter distributed in galaxy does not form the spherical distribution, and it is broken owing to the gravity of galaxy core, gravitational action with stars, and rotation of galaxy, if its shape is not very intentionally assumed. Furthermore, there are various heat sources in galaxy according to position, so it cannot be regarded as collisionless Isothermal.

However, the effect of centripetal force that negative mass works from the exterior of galaxy can keep the spherical distribution of mass, and make the mass effect that increases linearly in accordance with distance r as seen above because it receives less influence from elements such as the gravity of galaxy core, or rotation of galaxy. Also ideal state of collisionless can be achieved by negative mass, because negative mass has repulsive effect each other.

At the solar system, non-observation of dark matter(negative mass) is explained. In negative mass hypothesis, dark matter exists at the exterior of galaxy, so dark matter is not observed at the solar system.

It described that the quantity of negative mass decided at the beginning of universe can explain the effect of centripetal force in galaxy(V-4), repulsion effect on cosmic expansion(V-3), decelerating expansion at the first half, and accelerating expansion(V-1) of universe at the second half(7 billion years ago) at the same time.

Therefore, it is necessary to try to calculate and observe negative mass more strictly, laying aside the abstract aversion of negative mass.

Please review to the fig12, fig13, fig14.
And then, please understand that the gravitational effect from negative mass is equal to the gravitational effect from positive mass(same density to the negative mass density distributed out of galaxy) within radius r.

Many problems explained by negative mass(energy)
- Almost uniformly distribution of the dark matter,
- Non-observation of the star and galaxy consists of dark matter,
- Dark matter clumping around galaxy,
- Rotation curve of the galaxy -Centripetal force effect,
- Low interaction between dark matter when collision occurs between dark matter,
- Collision of Bullet Cluster,
- Non-observation of dark matter at the Earth and Solar system (Xenon100, CDMS II…)
- Non-baryonic dark matter condition,

- Observed value of the dark energy(10^(-47)GeV^4),
- Repulsive force needed for accelerating expansion,
- It is show that result of original field equation(Λ=0) of general relativity is right.

========
Hypothesis of Dark Matter and Dark Energy with Negative Mass :
http://vixra.org/abs/0907.0015
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-09 at 03:27 AM.

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icarus2,

One problem with negative mass is that it needs to be defined. Mass can be defined as : "the property of a body that causes it to have weight in a gravitational field." When something has weight it moves toward a center of gravity. Does negative mass move away from a center of gravity or what? Negative mass seemingly must be matter of some theoretical sort. What kind of matter is it theorized to be?

The simplest answer is probably the best answer, all else being equal. I'm not fond of the dark matter hypothesis but it is seemingly a more plausible answer than dark matter plus something else dark to explain the same thing, which seemingly would involve more unknowns. Why do you think negative mass is a better answer? What problems do you think it solves? I know this is probably not your paper that you have presented but can you answer any of my questions indicated by the question marks.
Last edited by forrest noble; 2010-Aug-01 at 04:44 PM.

9. Originally Posted by forrest noble
icarus2,

One problem with negative mass is that it needs to be defined. Mass can be defined as : "the property of a body that causes it to have weight in a gravitational field." When something has weight it moves toward a center of gravity. Does negative mass move away from a center of gravity or what? Negative mass seemingly must be matter of some theoretical sort. What kind of matter is it theorized to be?

The simplest answer is probably the best answer, all else being equal. I'm not fond of the dark matter hypothesis but it is seemingly a more plausible answer than dark matter plus dark mass which would seemingly involve a lot more unknowns. Why do you think this a better answer? I know this is probably not your paper that you have presented but can you answer any of my questions indicated by the question marks.
"Why do you think this a better answer?"
Because of I think that below problems explained by negative mass hypothesis.
- Almost uniformly distribution of the dark matter,
- Non-observation of the star and galaxy consists of dark matter,
- Dark matter clumping around galaxy,
- Rotation curve of the galaxy -Centripetal force effect,
- Low interaction between dark matter when collision occurs between dark matter,
- Collision of Bullet Cluster,
- Non-observation of dark matter at the Earth and Solar system (Xenon100, CDMS II…)
- Non-baryonic dark matter condition,

- Observed value of the dark energy(10^(-47)GeV^4),
- Repulsive force needed for accelerating expansion,
- It is show that result of original field equation(Λ=0) of general relativity is right

By the way, what do you mean that’s sentence
“I know this is probably not your paper that you have presented but can you answer any of my questions indicated by the question marks.”

It is my paper! Your comment is an infelicitous remark.
“Hypothesis of dark matter and dark energy with negative mass” is my paper.
I had written paper by my national language. And it was translated into English by translator.
My English ability is very insufficient. So my explanation is very limited. Again, I am sorry.
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-01 at 06:23 PM.

10. ## Proof of that value of observed dark energy(10^(-47)GeV^4)

The value of observed dark energy has been proved in accordance with negative mass hypothesis.

ρ_de = (0.20 ~ 5.02) X 10^(-47)GeV^4 : Negative mass hypothesis
ρ_obs = 10^(-47)GeV^4 : Observed value

========
V-2-1)Proof from the definition equation of dark energy

In equation (78), (79), Dark energy is corresponding to that plus potential term in total gravitational potential energy.

Relations between radius of universe and dark energy density

In a WMAP, observed value Λ = 2.14(±0.13) x 10^(-3)eV

Radius of the universe : about 96.7 Billion light years!(R = 85.32 ~ 108.89 Gly)

From Neil J. Cornish,the universe' radius is at least 24Gpc(78Gly).(2003, Neil J. Cornish, "Constraining the Topology of the Universe", http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310233v1 )

In Quantum Field Theory, the energy density of the vacuum is estimated as 10^(70)GeV^4, which is about 10^117 orders of magnitude large than the observation value 10^(-47)GeV^4.

Therefore,
You can see that negative mass hypothesis how to close to the observation and the universe.

You will know the mean which magnitude of dark energy is proved.
It is saying that cosmological constant has not existed and dark energy has not come from vacuum energy.

Definitely, it is against to the ΛCDM model.
For all that, why did the ΛCDM model show a similar result?
We can find out if we look at the total potential energy section, but if we look at the total potential energy (78 ) equation, (79 ) equation, it is in a form of :

U =(positive potential term) + (negative potential term)= Λ + (ordinary gravitation potential)
Which the positive term played an independent potential role as Λ.

=========
V-2-2)Proof from the gravitational self-energy

[ Proof ]
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=16

11. ## Colliding with Bullet Cluster!

V-6. Colliding with Bullet Cluster

As shown in the recent observation of dark matter, dark matter seems not to interact with each other when colliding with galaxy clusters, and it can be predicted with essential characteristics of negative mass.

Uniformly distributed negative mass receives attractive effect from massive positive mass, so dark matter which has negative mass is clustered around galaxy because of attraction of galaxy. If the type of force worked between negative mass when colliding with galaxy clusters is repulsive, and negative mass is distributed almost uniformly without forming massive mass structure, the shape of dark matter is not distorted or transformed even if dark matter(negative mass) and dark matter(negative mass) pass through similar area, that is, they will seem not to interact each other. Also there is repulsive effect between dark matters that are made up with negative mass, thus there will be almost no direct collision as well.

Repulsive effect that is the nature between negative mass as described above provides the proper description that existing dark matters do not interact each other, although they interact gravitationally with positive mass.

As the factor that breaks the uniform distribution of negative mass(dark matter),

First, negative mass receives the attractive effect from massive positive mass, thus for the distribution of negative mass near massive positive mass such as galaxy or galaxy cluster, the density of negative mass is higher as it is closer to galaxy or galaxy cluster, and is lower as it is farther.

Second, if positive mass(like galaxy cluster) that has strong gravity or interstellar cloud that has positive mass pass through existing area that negative mass is distributed, negative mass can be disappeared when meeting positive mass or it can be drawn owing to attractive effect of massive positive mass at this moment, so there can be the area that negative mass, namely, dark matter is not uniformly distributed

Fig20. Collision of Bullet Cluster.
We can see that ordinary matters(red color) are close to each other, and dark matters(blue color) are on the far side.

(http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0608407v1)

Fig23. MACS J0025.4-1222 Cluster.
We can see that ordinary matters(yellow line) are close to each other(center), and dark matters(red line) are on the far side.
(http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.2320v2)

i)Positive mass(hot gas), positive mass(hot gas) : attractive

ii)Negative mass(dark matter), negative mass(dark matter) : repulsive

iii)Massive positive mass(Galaxy), negative mass(dark matter) : attractive

view to the simulation video-1

iv)Result : At least, from 3 characteristics above, we can predict that positive mass(hot gas) and positive mass(hot gas) are arranged on the close side, and negative mass(dark matter) and negative mass(dark matter) are arranged on the far side.

Can we explain the phenomenon that dark matter is arranged on the far side and visible positive matter is arranged on the close side in Fig.20 with other dark matters?

Negative mass(Dark matter) shows the result matched with the phenomena, and it means that it is necessary to perform more strict simulation with negative mass.

========
Hypothesis of Dark Matter and Dark Energy with Negative Mass :
http://vixra.org/abs/0907.0015
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-10 at 01:42 PM.

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icarus2,

My negative mass hypothesis is explain that
- Almost uniformly distribution of the dark matter,
- Non-observation of the star and galaxy consists of dark matter,
- Dark matter clumping around galaxy,
- Rotation curve of the galaxy -Centripetal force effect,
- Low interaction between dark matter when collision occurs between dark matter,
- Collision of Bullet Cluster,
- Non-observation of dark matter at the Earth and Solar system (Xenon100, CDMS II…)
- Non-baryonic dark matter condition,

- Observed value of the dark energy(10^(-47)GeV^4),
- Repulsive force needed for accelerating expansion,
- It is show that result of original field equation(Λ=0) of general relativity is right
Glad to hear this is your paper. It is beautifully presented.

One problem I see is hypothesis on hypothesis. You are assuming dark matter and dark energy are valid hypotheses although many believe that neither have ever been directly observed. Instead what I think you are doing is showing some problems with the present dark matter and dark energy hypotheses which accordingly requires something else also not observed to explain them. This, of course, does not mean that your hypothesis is wrong, it just makes the possibility of it being valid, less probable in my opinion.

Because of your poor English it is more difficult for you to explain your hypotheses in English, so I would suggest more study in English which might improve understandings of your explanations concerning questions, in this language.

Congratulations on the professional look and excellent graphic presentation of your idea and best wishes for this and other continuing theoretical ventures.

13. ## We are observed accelerating expansion and gravitational effect

Originally Posted by forrest noble
One problem I see is hypothesis on hypothesis. You are assuming dark matter and dark energy are valid hypotheses although many believe that neither have ever been directly observed. Instead what I think you are doing is showing some problems with the present dark matter and dark energy hypotheses which accordingly requires something else also not observed to explain them. This, of course, does not mean that your hypothesis is wrong, it just makes the possibility of it being valid, less probable in my opinion.
I’m afraid I don’t agree with your viewpoint.
We are observed accelerating expansion and gravitational effect(centripetal force effect and gravitational lensing)
So, I suggested only one model for the observation. It is not a hypothesis on the hypothesis.

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Something I have thought about before, the possiblity that there is also negative mass matter. I can't verify the calculations on how this kind of matter behaves and if the peculiarities which were attributed to dark matter or dark energy can all be sufficiently explained when assuming negative mass does exist. But in the qualitative sense it might fit in the missing holes of our understanding of the universe.
It does need some more consideration, to verify if this hypothises can explain these previously unexplained facts.

Edit:
Negative mass would be some ideal stuff for propulsion too, just built the spacecraft with equal amounts of negative and positive mass, and the craft will continue accelerating for ever!

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Icarus:
Some suggestion: let your publications and video be proof read by some people that master english well, it makes your publications more stronger and trustworthy when there are no grammatical errors in it.

And I think you have presented a good argument of why negative matter would be plausible and could explain a few facts we currently don''t seem to understand. I hope more scientific effort and research is done into this.

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icarus2,

quotation snips
We are observed accelerating expansion
I think you must realize that many interpret these observations of dark energy as hypothesis. In type 1a supernova for redshifts centered about .6 , it appears that these supernova are farther away than the Hubble distance formula indicates. All one would need to do is change the Hubble formula to indicate otherwise, and if such a change would be accepted in cosmology, then the dark energy idea might disappear.

....... gravitational effect (centripetal force effect and gravitational lensing)
The same thing applies to the equations of General Relativity. If you change these equations to account for all stellar orbital velocities and be consistent with observations concerning galaxy interactions behavior and observations of gravitational lensing, and if such changes to the GR equation would be accepted in cosmology, then it would seem that even the dark matter hypothesis could disappear.

So, I suggested only one model for the observation. It is not a hypothesis on the hypothesis.
You are proposing a new hypothetical entity to better explain perceived problems with the present hypotheses concerning both dark energy and dark matter. I perceive your negative matter hypothesis as being ad hoc, to help explain away perceived problems with these other hypotheses. That of course does not invalidate your idea. As I said before, the chances of its validity seems to be dependent on the validity of one or both of these other two hypothesis to provide evidence for your hypothesis. If not then what is the other evidence for your negative matter idea?
Last edited by forrest noble; 2010-Aug-02 at 05:43 PM.

17. Originally Posted by heusdens
Edit:
Negative mass would be some ideal stuff for propulsion too, just built the spacecraft with equal amounts of negative and positive mass, and the craft will continue accelerating for ever!
Yes, but trying to STOP might become a real issue then....LOL

"Brakes? BRAKES?! I knew we forgot something captain!"

18. ## I found it when finding answers to fundamental problems like~

Thank you! Heusdens,
I really appreciate your comments.

------------------
Thank you! forrest noble,
Originally Posted by forrest noble
I think you must realize that many interpret these observations of dark energy as hypothesis. In type 1a supernova for redshifts centered about .6 , it appears that these supernova are farther away than the Hubble distance formula indicates. All one would need to do is change the Hubble formula to indicate otherwise, and if such a change would be accepted in cosmology, then the dark energy idea might disappear.
But modification of Hubble formula isn’t yet accepted and ΛCDM model based on the accelerating expansion is known to be the most successful model. This means that it is improper that my hypothesis judged that it is problematic, even though my hypothesis explains it, regarding the accelerating expansion as an observation result.

Originally Posted by forrest noble
The same thing applies to the equations of General Relativity. If you change these equations to account for all stellar orbital velocities and be consistent with observations concerning galaxy interactions behavior and observations of gravitational lensing, and if such changes to the GR equation would be accepted in cosmology, then it would seem that even the dark matter hypothesis could disappear.
As far as I know, modification theories of General Relativity haven’t yet gained success enough, and even though, they are reasonable, they cannot be successful without admitting dark matters.

Sean Carroll’s article. "Dark Matter Exists"
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/co...matter-exists/
----------------------
“it was already very difficult to explain the dynamics of clusters (as opposed to individual galaxies) in terms of MOND without invoking anything but ordinary matter. Even MOND partisans generally agree that some form of dark matter is necessary to account for cluster dynamics and cosmology.”
----------------------

Originally Posted by forrest noble
You are proposing a new hypothetical entity to better explain perceived problems with the present hypotheses concerning both dark energy and dark matter. I perceive your negative matter hypothesis as being ad hoc, to help explain away perceived problems with these other hypotheses. That of course does not invalidate your idea. As I said before, the chances of its validity seems to be dependent on the validity of one or both of these other two hypothesis to provide evidence for your hypothesis. If not then what is the other evidence for your negative matter idea?
For the negative mass(energy)
1. Negative mass(energy) is solution of the relativistic energy equation and Dirac equation
E^2 = (m0c^2)^2 + (pc)^2
E = ± root( (m0c^2)^2 + (pc)^2)

Negative mass is stable at the maximum point, so the catastrophe to energy level of minus infinity never happens. Therefore they can exist.

2. Initial energy value of universe
1) It looks more natural when an initial energy value of universe is 0. Therefore, negative energy is needed to offset positive energy of matters and in my opinion, only with negative gravitational potential energy, it is difficult to offset positive energy.

- The present theory for the universe creation from nothing
Argue that E_T = 0 = (+E) + (-E) = 0 = (Σ+mc^2) + (Σ-GMm/r) = 0

- But, in my opinion, (Σ+mc^2) > |(Σ-GMm/r)|, so (Σ+mc^2) + (Σ-GMm/r) ≠ 0

In my think, E_T = 0 = (+E) + (-E) = 0 = (Σ+ m+c^2) + (Σ - m_c^2) + (Σ U) = 0
(m+ : positive mass / m_ : negative mass / U : gravitational potential energy)

2) We observe the universe today. If we run all the particles positions backwards, they appear to be packed together at infinite density. Maybe, early universe has a density of black hole. In generally, particles cannot escape from the black hole.
However, present theories have explains to the situations with ambiguous method.

But,
Assuming that negative mass(energy) and positive mass(energy) were born together at the beginning of universe,

If we run all the particles positions backwards, they appear to be packed together at infinite density(each positive mass and negative mass). But, Universe has not a density of black hole. So universe can be expanded.

3. Dark Matter
: Above posting

4. Dark Energy
: Above posting

5. Fine tuning problem of mass density
The reason of that mass density close to the critical mass density(In my paper, V-5, 15~17P)
The mass density of universe close to critical mass density was from basic mechanism of pair creation, namely 1:1 correspondence of negative mass to positive mass, and form of potential energy.

I guess, 1, 2 and 5 categories are different from hypotheses of dark matter and dark energy energy and they can be explained through negative mass(energy).
I also already drew up a graduation thesis for ‘Study of Interaction between Negative mass and Positive mass’(http://blog.naver.com/hbar108/150045479201 : Korean Language) in 1997 before the accelerating expansion, that is, dark energy was observed, differently from what you guess.
My hypothesis is not as hoc ~

Negative mass is related to negative energy, and I found it when finding answers to fundamental problems like symmetry of nature, law of energy conservation in basic characteristics of universe, existence of solution of negative energy which came from special relativity and initial energy value of the universe.

At that time, I actually had no knowledge of dark matters and didn’t know of dark energy at all in 1997, because the accelerating expansion of the universe wasn’t yet found. The internet environment was also totally different from now. For that reason, I described that negative mass could explain inflation and void structure of the universe what I knew at that time in my thesis.

After graduating from university in 1998, I worked in the field which was out of all relation to physics for 12 years. One day at the end of 2008, I read an article saying that dark matter and dark energy are very crucial issues in the physical academy and they had difficulties in explaining them.
As soon as I read it, I realized that it can be explained through negative mass(energy) what I studied 11 years ago and drew up this paper, studying it through classical mechanics and mathematics what I almost remembered.
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-07 at 01:55 PM.

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icarus2,

As far as I know, modification theories of General Relativity haven’t yet gained success enough..........................
This is true.

...............they cannot be successful without admitting dark matters.
This, I believe, is just a matter of opinion. Until dark matter is universally accepted and its nature is well understood/ explained, it is still hypothetical. Altered equations of GR are not impossible to formulate, as well as competing models such as MOND and others have done so. Alternative equations that work in all domains have not been recognized yet but that does not mean that it cannot be done without using dark matter.

At that time, I actually had no knowledge of dark matters and didn’t know of dark energy at all in 1997, because the accelerating expansion of the universe wasn’t yet found. The internet environment was also totally different from now. For that reason, I described that negative mass could explain inflation and void structure of the universe what I knew at that time in my thesis.
I now realize that your negative matter idea came first before your knowledge concerning the proposals of dark matter and dark energy. This means that you were trying to solve other theoretical problems by proposing your model.

As you have pointed out there are other possible values and usages for negative matter explaining problems with present day theory. Does that mean, however, that negative matter is needed/ is valid, or does it simply mean that some additional problems in present day theory exist that will need to be resolved by present or future theory like yours, whether or not negative matter or something else presently unknown will be needed as part of such a theory/ solution? It seems to me that reality could be more easily explained by using things which we know exist, rather than having to invent/ propose new ones, if at all possible.
Last edited by forrest noble; 2010-Aug-08 at 08:16 PM.

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The only thing is, that quantum theory does not allow for coupling constants to be negative. If negative mass matter exists, this has to be the case.
How can you give an argument that quantum theory is not dispermitting it?

21. ## It is no relation to the existence of negative mass.

Originally Posted by heusdens
The only thing is, that quantum theory does not allow for coupling constants to be negative. If negative mass matter exists, this has to be the case.
How can you give an argument that quantum theory is not dispermitting it?
Hello, Heusdens
But, I know not “quantum field theory does not allow for coupling constants to be negative”, but “quantum field theory say that theories whose coupling constant has negative mass dimension are nonrenormalizable”.

It means that Newton’s gravitational constant G has mass dimension -2.(namely, negative mass dimension m^(-2)). G is a kind of coupling constant. Therefore, theory of gravity is nonrenormalizable by known QFT method.

It is no relation to the existence of negative mass matter.

===============
In the “Quantum field theory in a nutshell” by A.ZEE

Einstein’s theory is now crying out

The theory of gravity is also notoriously nonrenormalizable. Simply comparing Newton’s law V(r)=GnM1M2/r with Coulomb’s V( r) = α /r we see that Newton’s gravitational constant Gn has mass dimension -2. No more need be said. We come to the same morose conclusion that the theory of gravity, just like Fermi’s theory of weak interaction, is nonrenormalizable.
...
The heuristic argument of the previous chapter indicates that theories whose coupling has negative mass dimension are nonrenormalizable.
===============

22. ## [ Abstract ]

From the observance of the HSS team and SCP team in 1998, they gained the mass density of the negative(HSS: Ω_M = -0.38( ± 0.22), SCP: Ω_M = -0.4( ± 0.1)), using field equations which do not have the cosmological constant.

In they thought, the quantity of the mass couldn't be negative value. So the value was discarded.
We have to know that not the field equation has disposed the value, but our thought disposed that value.

In the world of positive mass, ground state is a point that energy is low, but in case of negative mass, ground state is a point that energy is the highest.

Accordingly, in the world of negative mass, energy level is filled from the highest to the lowest, and stable state means the highest energy state, so the catastrophe to energy level of minus infinity never happens.

Assuming that negative mass exists, Newton's Law of motion was derived in between negative and positive masses and also between negative and negative masses.

As a method for proving the existence of negative mass, an explanation on the revolution velocity of the galaxy through negative mass has been presented. In this process, the existence of spherical mass distribution was given; furthermore, explanation was done using this, to show observation results where dark matter effect through negative mass is proportional to distance r.

If Ω_M is -0.38, universe's age is 14.225 Gyr. It is in the range estimated by other observations.

Assuming that negative mass and positive mass were born together at the beginning of universe, it satisfies the various problems that previous dark matter and dark energy possess, such as,

[ Dark matter ]
- Centripetal force effects of galaxy and galaxy clusters from previous dark matters,
- Mass effects that is proportional to the distance r,
- Low interaction between dark matter when collision occurs between dark matter.

[ Dark energy ]
: Repulsive force needed for expansion, dark energy that has positive values,

[ Fine tuning problem of mass density ]
: The reason of that mass density close to the critical mass density.

[ Cosmological Constant Problem ]
- The reason of that dark energy seems to has a small and non-zero value.
- Phase transition problem of dark energy

[ Others ]
- Collision of Bullet cluster,
- Decelerating expansion and accelerating expansion of universe,
- Age of the universe with negative mass density
- Size of the universe

[ Proof of that observed dark energy value ]
: Dark energy observation value (10-47GeV4)

As a result, the necessity of observation focusing on exact computation and detection of negative mass is stated.

========
Hypothesis of Dark Matter and Dark Energy with Negative Mass :
http://vixra.org/abs/0907.0015
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-10 at 03:32 PM.

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Hello Icarus2,

I've very much enjoyed reading your posts so please keep them coming.

I've been thinking along similar lines myself with regards to negative mass, negative energy and how they would behave, if they existed.

In my case, I started 2 years ago with a particle-based gravitational simulator that I developed (adapted from work by Piet Hut and Jun Makino on: www.artcompsci.org) and published on the web. If you're interested you can take a look at my site and download the software for free from: www.grav-sim.com.

I started experimenting with putting negative values in for the masses and seeing what would happen. The good news is that the simulator copes fine (without modification) and gives results equivalent to to ones you're describing in your video.

The simulator includes some basic models for globular clusters and cold-collapse universes (using random Plummer and uniform models respectively). You can easily run simulations for 10,000 particles (stars, whatever) on a standard PC. You get results in the form of final positions and velocities in a .csv file, or you can watch them moving around on screen.

The really interesting behaviour comes when you mix positive and megative masses in equal amounts, such that the total mass is zero. In a cold-collapse scenario, you find that the positives clump together and the negatives move apart while chasing after and surrounding the postives. Some of them form positive / negative pairs and fly off at ever-increasing speeds.

The simulator is based on Newtonian gravity so there is no speed limit. Perhaps a useful change to the software would be to include the Lorentz maths so that the maximum speed tends to the speed of light.

Actually, the simulated universe doesn't collapase at all (as it would with a positive-mass-only scenario). It kind of hangs around in a form that looks a bit like the distribution of matter we observe in the real univserse. Then eventually more and more of the positvie / negative pairs fly off and the whole thing rips itself apart, which is reminiscent of the dark-energy hypothesis.

Regards,

Gravsim

24. gravsim,

First, welcome to BAUT.

Second, the ATM forum is not for collaborative work. This thread is for Icarus2 to present their ideas. If you want to present your own ideas, please start your own thread in the ATM forum

25. ## The difference in mass when pair creating of negative mass and positive mass

Hello, Gravsim
I really appreciate to your comments for the simulation.

I’m sorry. I can’t English well. My native language is not English. So, my expression is short and insufficient. (-_-);;
I have downloads the software and install it.
By the way, in my opinion, if sample simulation file is included, it will be better.

Originally Posted by gravsim
Actually, the simulated universe doesn't collapase at all (as it would with a positive-mass-only scenario). It kind of hangs around in a form that looks a bit like the distribution of matter we observe in the real univserse.
I agree with the result of simulation.
If only one gravitational field(only positive mass) was existed, universe is not explained...

Originally Posted by gravsim
The really interesting behaviour comes when you mix positive and megative masses in equal amounts, such that the total mass is zero. In a cold-collapse scenario, you find that the positives clump together and the negatives move apart while chasing after and surrounding the postives. Some of them form positive / negative pairs and fly off at ever-increasing speeds.
For the total mass of the universe when negative mass is existing,

When pair creating of negative mass and positive mass, we have a possibility of existence of the difference in mass ( In my paper, II-4. 5~6P)

Give a simple explain,
----------

-m- ....... +m+
(m- >0, m+ >0)

ET = (- m-c2) + (+ m+c2) + (Gm-m+/r) = 0
m-c2 = (m+c2) + (Gm-m+/r)

Gravitational potential energy term has a positive value, so, |- m-| > m+
In generally, rest mass energy is bigger than gravitational potential energy.
But, at the beginning of universe, we should not ignore total gravitational potential energy(gravitational self-energy or binding energy).

If positive mass and negative mass simultaneously repeat pair creation and pair annihilation microscopically at the vacuum state which satisfies energy conservation and momentum conservation, to materialize energy and momentum conservation, the size of two mass can be different when creating a pair of positive mass and negative mass because of the existence of potential energy, momentum conservation, etc.

--------------
Proof : refer to the paper
--------------
m- > m+ …. (60)

This difference in mass when negative mass and positive mass pair creation presents that, if negative mass and positive mass were born together at the beginning of universe, negative mass which is not offset from among them can exist in universe now, and
also negative mass which is bigger than positive mass can exist. Accordingly, if negative mass is dark matter, it provides the description that total amount of dark matter is bigger than that of matter.

Have a nice day!
--- Icarus2
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-10 at 07:38 PM.

26. ## Astronomers Find Black Holes Do Not Absorb Dark Matter!

I’m sorry. I can’t English well. My native language is not English. So, my expression is short and insufficient. (-_-);;

Greedy Supermassive Black Holes Dislike Dark Matter
http://www.universetoday.com/13091/g...e-dark-matter/

Astronomers Find Black Holes Do Not Absorb Dark Matter
http://www.universetoday.com/60422/a...b-dark-matter/

From Astronomers Find Black Holes Do Not Absorb Dark Matter:

There's the common notion that black holes suck in everything in the nearby vicinity by exerting a strong gravitational influence on the matter, energy, and space surrounding them. But astronomers have found that the dark matter around black holes might be a different story. Somehow dark matter resists 'assimilation' into a black hole.

[...]

Dr. Xavier Hernandez and Dr. William Lee from the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) calculated the way in which the black holes found at the center of galaxies absorb dark matter. These black holes have anything between millions and billions of times the mass of the Sun and draw in material at a high rate.

[...]

Their work therefore suggests that the density of dark matter in the centers of galaxies tends to be a constant value. By comparing their observations to what current models of the evolution of the Universe predict, Hernandez and Lee conclude that it is probably necessary to change some of the assumptions that underpin these models – dark matter may not behave in the way scientists thought it did. [emphasis added by icarus2]
============

Present models of dark matter hard to explain for these facts.
But, in the model of Negative mass, It is simply explained.

refer to no. 7 posting(Centripetal force in galaxy from Negative Mass(Dark Matter) distributed out of galaxy)
==========
Positive mass dark matter distributed in galaxy does not form the spherical distribution, and it is broken owing to the gravity of galaxy core, gravitational action with stars, and rotation of galaxy, if its shape is not very intentionally assumed. Furthermore, there are various heat sources in galaxy according to position, so it cannot be regarded as collisionless Isothermal.

However, the effect of centripetal force that negative mass works from the exterior of galaxy can keep the spherical distribution of mass, and make the mass effect that increases linearly in accordance with distance r as seen above because it receives less influence from elements such as the gravity of galaxy core, or rotation of galaxy. Also ideal state of collisionless can be achieved by negative mass, because negative mass has repulsive effect each other.”
===========
Last edited by Fraser; 2010-Dec-03 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Excessive quoting

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Hi Icarus2,

Thanks for your quick response.

I'm sure it is worth considering the case where the postive and negative masses are different. However, what form do we expect the negative mass to take? If we think in quantum terms then having the same particle masses but with opposite signs makes the most sense to me. This is a separate issue to how many of each particle type there are (and whether the total mass is positive or zero).

To answer your question on model files, there are some sample positive-mass-only files included in the grav-sim download (e.g. model10000.csv which is a 10,000-particle standard Plummer model of a globular cluster).

It's possible to generate an equivalent mixed-positive-and-negative-mass model with the following command:

> gravsim -g plummer -b 10000 -s mixture -r model.csv

or you can do a cold-collapse type model with:

> gravsim -g uniform -b 10000 -s mixture -r model.csv

you can then watch it evolve just by typing:

> gravview

although it will go a lot quicker with fewer particles (e.g. 2000) . The negative-mass particles are drawn in purple.

Have a nice day too!

Regards,

Gravsim

28. ## I can propose some ways to prove validity of hypothesis of negative mass

Hello, this is a last post because of the expiration date.

If there’s someone who can deal with General Relativity, of people who read this writing, I can propose some ways to prove validity of hypothesis of negative mass.

1) Dark matter and dark energy come from one origin
According to hypothesis of negative mass, most of dark matters have negative mass and it proves that dark energy is a gravitational potential energy(with positive value) between negative mass and positive mass.

Currently, there are Ω_m = - 0.38(±0.22) and Ω_m = - 0.4(±0.1) values what HSS team and SCP team calculated in relation to size of negative mass corresponding with size of dark energy and another one what I calculated in V-2.(Proof of that value of
observed dark energy(10-47GeV4))

What we have to do now, is to induce rotation curve or the quantity of dark matters within the galaxy, referring to the method what I proved in V-4.(Calculating centripetal force in galaxy from Negative Mass(Dark Matter) distributed out of galaxy.)

Therefore, when centripetal force effect by density of this negative mass can explain rotation curve within the galaxy after setting density of negative mass outside of the galaxy as Ω_m= - 0.38 or to be five ~ X times bigger than positive mass’s, it would explain dark energy and dark matters at once through negative mass, thus proves that hypothesis is right.

2) Verification of equation of dark energy suggested in V-2.
Since there are some equations of dark energy and they are explaining that they are the same forms. Therefore, by analyzing characteristics of this equation, we can know whether hypothesis is right or wrong.

3) Simulation of the Bullet Cluster
It is expected that hot gas exists in the middle, from attractive gravitational interaction, while negative mass still surrounds two galaxy clusters when carrying out a simulation in the structure what negative mass surrounds two galaxy clusters before the crash.

i)Positive mass(hot gas), positive mass(hot gas) : attractive
ii)Negative mass(dark matter), negative mass(dark matter) : repulsive
iii)Massive positive mass(Galaxy), negative mass(dark matter) : attractive
: View to the simulation video-1

4) Some details are additionally described to verify other hypotheses of negative mass.(V-6)

Have a nice day!

--- Icarus2
Last edited by icarus2; 2010-Aug-12 at 07:44 AM.

29. Thread closed due to expiration of 30-day time limit.

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