Stanton Friedman is at it again... UFO coverup - Cosmic Watergate...

[gzhpcu]

source: http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...-ufos/19503350

Always referred to as "nuclear physicist", though he hasn't worked as one for nearly 50 years...

and now he has come up with a book "Science was wrong"... needs the money, I guess...

Employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for companies like General Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse and Aerojet General Nucleonics, he worked on highly classified programs involving nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets.

In 1958, UFOs caught his attention, and Friedman has since lectured about this subject at more than 700 colleges and professional groups in all 50 states and around the world.


Nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman has devoted more than 50 years to pursuing the scientific truth of UFOs, and was the original civilian investigator of the legendary 1947 Roswell, N.M., incident.


"After 53 years of investigation, I'm convinced we're dealing here with a cosmic Watergate," he told AOL News. "That means a few people within major governments have known since at least 1947 that some UFOs are alien spacecraft."

To a moderator: could you please move this to the babbling forum, thanks, posted it in the wrong forum...

[Moose]

Moved to CT (it's a better fit here...), noting that there's no Rule 13 burden until someone decides to claim that our old friend Stan is right about something.

Also reminding participants that this thread isn't license to name-call Friedman. Rule 2 (Civility) applies in full, just as if Friedman were here defending his claims.

[Spoons]

These words are not the rantings of a deranged individual looking for attention or a comfortable straitjacket. Stanton Friedman is a maverick of sorts.

Are we playing the opposites game? I must get a copy of that book, which sounds like it's covering a whole lot of new ground at a bargain price - AMAZING VALUE!

That word, 'maverick', seems to be the new 'genius' - thrown around to the point at which it carries no real meaning. There was little substance in that write-up, does he actually have anything new to say, or is this like Coast to Coast where the first 10 minutes (his first book) captures all the essence of the claims and the rest of the show (every book since) is just pounding away, rephrasing and labouring the point?

Dubious Dan: I have in my possession 6 eggs. SIX!

Curious George: I don't believe you for a second.

Dubious Dan: Half a dozen eggs, in my custody!

Curious George: Half a dozen? Really? Well, you've sold me!

[astrophotographer]

As if SF ever did any real science. His use of the "nuclear physicist" label is typical. I would not want a nuclear physicist to do surgery on me so how does being a nuclear physicist qualify him to be an expert on UFOs? If you read any of his books, they sound like his articles on the internet and UFO conference lectures. Nothing new is added. He just repeats himself and repackages his message with a "new" title (something with the word "science" in it so it sounds good). Then he can claim he has multiple books on the subject. Of course, the publishers must get something out of this otherwise they would not be offering to publish his nonsense.

[gzhpcu]

Just like Robert Hastings, packaged presentations over and over again, never anything new....

[Gillianren]

People who cite Watergate always seem to be ignorant of how Watergate worked. He has no excuse for that; he's old enough to remember it. So why is it that I who was born a month and a half shy of the Carter administration know that the downfall of the Nixon administration was revealed very quickly? He's suggesting that something requiring even more people stayed secret even longer. I've never quite understood the reasoning there.

[astrophotographer]

Well, I took a glance at the "free look" on Amazon.com and see the storyline on this one. Friedman has cherry picked his topics. He declares that astronomers of the 1800s and early 1900s felt space travel was impossible and they were proven wrong. Of course, one can't see the whole book but I am sure they are selective quotes meant to not trust scientists when they declare UFOs are not alien spaceships. So, I was wrong. He did not repackage his old arguments in a new book. He took a new approach. That being to attack scientists by using select examples, which imply they are always wrong. Of course, he is violating his law for "debunkers". That being, "If you can't attack the data/evidence, attack the people". There is no good evidence for UFOs being alien spaceships, which is why scientists find this theory not compelling. Since he can not present good evidence, he attacks the scientists/science to make his argument appear correct.

[panchezpablo]

Just like Robert Hastings, packaged presentations over and over again, never anything new....

i don't understand this type of criticism... if he changed things you would complain that he'd, er.... changed things - it's 'new' to anyone that hasn't heard it before.

[NEOWatcher]

Friedman has cherry picked his topics. He declares that astronomers of the 1800s and early 1900s felt space travel was impossible and they were proven wrong.

And with that one word, "felt", he gets away with it.

Were the feelings actually based on scientific principles, or were they just thinking technology won't get that far? There's a huge difference there, and he probably knows it.

[LaurelHS]

I think Gzhpcu was talking about finding new evidence, not "changing things." Just as a random aside, I first heard the phrase "Cosmic Watergate" six years ago in a Vanity Fair article called Welcome To The Conspiracy.

[Garrison]

People who cite Watergate always seem to be ignorant of how Watergate worked. He has no excuse for that; he's old enough to remember it. So why is it that I who was born a month and a half shy of the Carter administration know that the downfall of the Nixon administration was revealed very quickly? He's suggesting that something requiring even more people stayed secret even longer. I've never quite understood the reasoning there.

I was just going to write virtually the same thing. Watergate is the classic example of how conspiracies fail and a very good reason for dismissing the notion of a multi-generational UFO cover up.

[astrophotographer]

"cosmic watergate" has been Friedman's call sign for over a decade. I recall hearing it back in the early 1990s associated with his Roswell writings. The problem is, not many people know what happened with "watergate" anymore. Ancient history for many newbies. Those that know something about the event really don't understand exactly what happened. It is amazing that the president himself could not protect a secret so important to him that he had to resign or be impeached within two years of the actual event that started it. In the case of the "cosmic watergate", the secret has been tucked away for over 60 years despite the fact that thousands (or maybe millions) more individuals have been exposed to the "classified" evidence over that time.

[Garrison]

W He declares that astronomers of the 1800s and early 1900s felt space travel was impossible and they were proven wrong.

No offense to astronomers but why would 19th and early 20th astronomers be the best people to ask about space travel? Unless they also happened to be experts in the relevant branches of engineering as well.

[NEOWatcher]

No offense to astronomers but why would 19th and early 20th astronomers be the best people to ask about space travel? Unless they also happened to be experts in the relevant branches of engineering as well.

I agree that it's a good question to ask Stanton. But; Astronomers would be a necessary component in the discussion especially since spaceflight is so involved with Newtonian mechanics of which Astronomers would be best versed in.

[HenrikOlsen]

A thing to remember is that they were right at the time, given the materials available then.

[astrophotographer]

I think he also mentions air travel as well as space travel being considered not possible.

[vonmazur]

Guys: Stanton is a good person, and I have talked to him on several occasions, but he has a"block"against certain things, like his famous attitude about "attacking the evidence". For some reason, he thinks that the lack of evidence is not an issue.

He gets a little antsy about the psychological aspects of this whole issue, ie: Abductions and such....Like some many UFO proponents, they assume the evidence is in, and proceed from there....

Dale

[R.A.F.]

Stanton is a good person...

...just not a good scientist.

[astrophotographer]

My opinion of his public personna is that he has blinded himself from seeing any point of view other than his own and he demonizes everyone that disagrees with that point of view. His writings reflect this. I would hate to see what he would be like if he were NOT a nice person.

[Spoons]

It's a common theme in conspiracy writing - a strong taste of cynicism about almost everything except the authors own work, who is generally "ahead of the game", "breaking new ground" and "on the verge of a discovery that will change mankind's understanding of where they come from and where they're headed". Things that "only the close minded would reject", which itself seems a statement closed to the multiple reasons why someone may choose to reject a claim.

[gzhpcu]

He may well be a good guy, but some of the things he supports are really radical:

Roswell ufo crash, the Barney and Betty Hill abduction, the MJ-12 documents.

[vonmazur]

Fellows: My Father was in the Air Force and transported some of the "wreckage"....I tried to explain to Stanton that it was terrestrial in origin, he is convinced that it was some kind of UFO. In this case, the myth is bigger than the truth...

My Dad told me that it was a balloon that was recovering samples from Soviet Bomb Tests, and that was why it was such a big deal at the time, the Air Force did not want anyone to see or examine the devices that were carried, seems like a good explanation to me.....

Dale

[Gillianren]

My Dad told me that it was a balloon that was recovering samples from Soviet Bomb Tests, and that was why it was such a big deal at the time, the Air Force did not want anyone to see or examine the devices that were carried, seems like a good explanation to me.....

But that's such a mundane secret! Secrets are never that obvious!

[vonmazur]

Gillianren: OK, how's this; The US was experimenting with Nazi time travel technologies, and the crew had to be cloned or else they would experience a "Trip" like 2001....They collided with a Japanese secret craft in the time tunnel and crashed in New Mexico, but not in the same universe, a parallel one, the one we are living in....Now the clones are grown in cows, and harvested with black helicopters, which they did not have in 1947, only then they wre painted Olive Drab #81, which the US stopped using in 1945, so they could spot one of their "own" on the flight line, etc etc.....I could make up some more, but my head hurts.............

Dale

[Gillianren]

Yes, to a certain kind of thinking, that's much more believable.

[Jim]

Gillianren: OK, how's this; The US was experimenting with Nazi time travel technologies, and the crew had to be cloned or else they would experience a "Trip" like 2001....They collided with a Japanese secret craft in the time tunnel and crashed in New Mexico, but not in the same universe, a parallel one, the one we are living in....Now the clones are grown in cows, and harvested with black helicopters, which they did not have in 1947, only then they wre painted Olive Drab #81, which the US stopped using in 1945, so they could spot one of their "own" on the flight line, etc etc...

You realize that's the plot of an upcoming movie on SyFy? Or soon will be.

[Daggerstab]

I think you should make that "an upcoming documentary on the History Channel".

[HenrikOlsen]

Fellows: My Father was in the Air Force and transported some of the "wreckage"....I tried to explain to Stanton that it was terrestrial in origin, he is convinced that it was some kind of UFO. In this case, the myth is bigger than the truth...

My Dad told me that it was a balloon that was recovering samples from Soviet Bomb Tests, and that was why it was such a big deal at the time, the Air Force did not want anyone to see or examine the devices that were carried, seems like a good explanation to me.....

Dale

The article on it I read said that it was a balloon-carried instrument to record the sonic signatures of Soviet Bomb Tests, which is close enough to what your dad told that it's still corroboration when remembering that he likely didn't get told the specific details either.

[vonmazur]

Henrik and Guys: When I was in the Military, they used long tubes buried in the ground to record the seismic signature of Atomic tests....I have wondered just what the balloons were sampling.......?

Dale

[Graybeard6]

That system was great for underground tests. but the balloon-borne gear sampled the upper atmosphere for radioactive particles from air detonated weapons. We knew the Soviets were working on a nuclear weapon, and wanted to get the evidence. IIRC they would succeed in 1949, so the Roswell balloon wouldn't have picked up anything. By the late fifties, when I got into the nuke business, there were other methods available, such as aircraft that could reach very high altitudes (U-2, WB-57) along with very sensitive barographs to detect the shock waves.