Hawking on aliens

[Gomar]

http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...rials/19454315


Interesting article. Reminds me of 'District 9'. Aliens looking for resources. Obviously, in a galaxy with thousands of life forms, there'd be no reason to venture out 50light years unless you have something to gain. Thus, either aliens are friendly, like the Vulcans, or are dangerous colonizers like humans.

When contact is made, it'll either be the first time ever in this galaxy that species from different worlds have contacted each other, or we'll be regarded by the aliens as just another in a long line of life forms. Obviously, for us it'll be something, but for them as exciting as watching grass grow.

[Gomar]

ABC News just had a segment on Hawking's theory. They seemed to make fun of the whole thing, with footage from movies, but I guess most people will just not know who this man in a wheel chair is.

[Middenrat]

You can't blame the media for making light of what is, after all, some puff for a cable series, a tasty soundbite for a hungry editor.

[Canis Lupus]

Oh good, everyone's favourite astrophysicist is now warning us about hostile aliens. AGW shock stories have been a bit scarce lately, so why not? We must have our nightmares.

If aliens ever did bother to come along, once they get over the novelty of giving us all anal probes, which some of you might enjoy, it will be them, not us, who will be under threat. Our immune systems didn't just come along over night, and they won't have one - not one for this world in any case. This world is actually a pretty hostile place, it's just that we are perfectly adapted. They'd have to sterilize the planet, by which time it won't be much different to most other planets devoid of life. If they had that type of power, they would be better off with a planet like Mars.

In any case, I can't see them being hostile, they seem too fixated with our bottoms.

[01101001]

Bad Astronomy Blog: In which I disagree with Stephen Hawking

Apparently Stephen Hawking read my book, but not very carefully, because he thinks aliens will come here ala "Independence Day"* and eat up all our resources and move on.
I disagree with him. I think in fact it’s more likely that an aggressive alien race would create self-replicating robot probes that will disperse through the galaxy and destroy all life that way.
But more likely still doesn’t equate to likely. [...]

Sean Carroll Cosmic Variance Blog: Hawking: Beware the Alien Menace!

It’s like the LHC doomsday scenarios, but for real — the sensible prior on “murderous aliens” is much higher than on “microscopic black hole eats the Earth.” Happily, a face-to-face chat seems unlikely anyway. Nothing wrong with listening in, on the unlikely chance that the aliens are broadcasting their communications randomly throughout the galaxy. Besides, a little advance warning wouldn’t hurt.

[Canis Lupus]

Let's look at the absurdity of some of this thinking regarding aliens. Based upon mathematical probability people not only believe that alien life exists but also it must be plentiful. Let's assume there is alien life and it is abundant.

Why, except for self-centredness, does anyone think that these aliens would find us interesting, given the probability - going along with this type of thinking - that far more interesting entities exist amid this abundance of life?

One only needs to sample our mass media to realise we are exceptionally boring entities. Many people vote with their feet by commiting suicide rather than continue on here, and many more use artificial stimulants to counteract the boredom. If Earth was a country town, and its people the main attraction, then you'd certainly be taking the by-pass to get where ever it is you really want to go.

It smacks of typical human self-importance to imagine we are worth bothering about in a universe abundant in life. I see this reasoning as not only faulty, in the firs instance, but contradictory, if one accepts certain assumptions which the whole fallacy is based upon.

If life exists out there according to this type of thinking, we are not significant! The same applies to any particular life, anywhere. It's that simple - get over yourselves.

[Elukka]

They might find us interesting (or they might not), but that's besides the point. Why would they want our resources in particular?
Why would they fight to get the uranium or water or hydrogen or oxygen or whatever they want from Earth when they could get everything in larger quantities from any number of uninhabited bodies and indeed any number of solar systems nobody lays claim to? Why fly to Sol when you can get your resources from Alpha Centauri or any of the other several hundred billion uninhabited solar systems?

I think they realized that in District 9. The premise was that the only reason the aliens came to Earth was because their stuff broke and it happened to be the closest planet that could support their form of life. They don't want our water or our women.

[gzhpcu]

Here is a video on Hawking's "vision"....http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/stephen-hawking-aliens/

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

Something wrong with that statement....or more specifically who it's coming from. If it were some buffoon from FOX I'd just laugh it off...but a world renowned physicist? If the aliens wanted our world, why haven't we been conquered by now? The world being nearly resource exhausted is good for scrap at best....I start the bidding at one qualoon....

[solitonmanny]

Greetings to all Bi-pedal, carbon based meat sacks,

Whilst everyones seems to be concentrating on one comment within the televised interview it would help if you guys looked at the other options/types that Hawking also mentioned when discussing the possibility of alien or extra terrestrial contact.

Invasion and/or colonisation was a minor part of the discussion, but I do agree that it is the height of human arrogance to think ourselves so important that every species out there wants to come on down and ravage our women folk (to start with anyway), drain our water (perrier anyone?), mutilate our cattle (take 'em out for a happy meal) and generally behave in an extremely anti social manner.

I very much doubt that any self respecting alien lifeform will have anything to do with us, for the time being at least....

[eburacum45]

Hawking is perfectly right to urge caution. This should be the default position. Every intelligent race out there is a product of the process of evolution, which favours the fittest. Sometimes the fittest are the most aggressive. They may decide, for perfectly good reasons, to eliminate, or worse to subjugate, any potential rivals.

We won't know if they have good intentions or not until we meet them, and maybe not even then. They might have evolved into extremely competent liars.

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

space is big....hmmmkay???? really, really big.....full of lots of goodies for any alien hordes....we might be a curiousity at best

[Canis Lupus]

...Every intelligent race out there is a product of the process of evolution, which favours the fittest. Sometimes the fittest are the most aggressive...

I feel silly asking, but what is the basis for the above statement, apart from that's how life works here on earth, therefore, it must work the same way everywhere else?

I say the imagined intelligent aliens you are referring to sacrifice virgins to evolve. There is as much evidence for this idea, as your assertion.

Even if we assume evolution occurs elsewhere in the universe, the idea goes only some way in explaining human intelligence, failing to account for much, which in terms of mere survival is overkill. Survival does not require music or art or a host of other things which humans distract themselves with, including any imperative of sending probes into space.

At the heart of Nazism was that type of thinking. It was the regime's own stupidity, born of the same type of thinking, which ultimately led to its own destruction. Meantime Germany has thrived with quite different ideas.

So much for survival of the fittest!

[eburacum45]

I say the imagined intelligent aliens you are referring to sacrifice virgins to evolve. There is as much evidence for this idea, as your assertion.

All virgins, or just some of them? If all of them, they will only last one generation. If some of them, how do they select the ones they will sacrifice? If they sacrifice the weakest, then the fittest will survive, just as on Earth. If they sacrifice the strongest, they are slowly decreasing the overall fitness of their species, and will soon die out. If they sacrifice at random, then other evolutionary pressures will apply to decide the fate of the species, and the virgin-sacrificing behaviour is irrelevant.
So it turns out that survival of the fittest applies even in your example.

[Canis Lupus]

All virgins, or just some of them? If all of them, they will only last one generation. If some of them, how do they select the ones they will sacrifice? If they sacrifice the weakest, then the fittest will survive, just as on Earth. If they sacrifice the strongest, they are slowly decreasing the overall fitness of their species, and will soon die out. If they sacrifice at random, then other evolutionary pressures will apply to decide the fate of the species, and the virgin-sacrificing behaviour is irrelevant.
So it turns out that survival of the fittest applies even in your example.

Because your imagined alien intelligent life is devious, dishonest and degenerate, they choose on the basis of their own envy. Any virgin who is graceful, honest, beautiful and intelligent is sacrificed. The rest spend their time laughing their arses off at their fate. Next, the males have a mating competition based on who can spin the biggest load of nonsense, hoax, or fraud to see who gets the stupid dishonest ugly ones left alive. Nonetheless, despite this system, most cheat by mating with their sisters or children, which allows for a great many mutations to evolve. It's unlikely that any of the virgins sacrificed are really virgins, but just in case some degenerate degenerate family has overlooked incest, they regard it better to be safe than sorry.

[eburacum45]

This behaviour would favour those good at lying, which is exactly the sort of evolution I would be most wary of. A species which habitually told untruths, or who disguised their intentions instinctively, would not necessarily be the best partners in a galactic empire. On the other hand, humans are quite good at dissembling as well.

[R.A.F.]

space is big....hmmmkay???? really, really big.....full of lots of goodies for any alien hordes....we might be a curiousity at best

I agree. There's just nothing of worth to be found here that can't be found elsewhere. Vastly superior aliens coming here to ransack the planet and enslave the populace is a rather dated idea to begin with. I'm completely surprised by Hawking's comments regarding this

[Aik4on]

I took Hawking's comments to be colourful, 'media friendly' illustrations of why caution is the best policy when it comes to ETI contact. Because the motivations/morals/agenda of any alien race would be a complete unknown and, possibly, completely impenetrable to us, then surely it's just common sense to hold back (at least until we can be sure that they are not virgin sacrificing, incestuous degenerates!)

It's refreshing to hear this viewpoint as most mainstream media coverage on SETI, METI, etc, seems to start and finish with the assumption that any advanced alien civilisation would be benevolent.

[Canis Lupus]

I took Hawking's comments to be colourful, 'media friendly' illustrations of why caution is the best policy when it comes to ETI contact. Because the motivations/morals/agenda of any alien race would be a complete unknown and, possibly, completely impenetrable to us, then surely it's just common sense to hold back (at least until we can be sure that they are not virgin sacrificing, incestuous degenerates!)
....

Isn't the problem that the virgin-sacrificing, incestuous, degenerate aliens will be very clever in concealing their real intention. In fact, the more good natured and benevolent an alien race acts towards us, and the less evidence of evil intent we can discover in them, the more proof we have they are who we should fear most.

The only ones we can trust are those pointing a zapper at us.

Nuke 'em all quick, one way or another, I say! Shoot giant bottles of double strengthened disinfectant throughout the universe!

[Argos]

Itīs disappointing to see S. Hawking spreading FUD. I never thought that brilliant brain could come up with such confusing and uninformed opinions.

[eburacum45]

I'm actually very impressed with his argument. What exactly is 'confusing and uninformed' about a cautious attitude? With any luck there are no monsters out there- but how can we possibly tell one way or the other?

[Argos]

Well, He hasnīt bother presenting something slightly resembling a scientific argument [as Sagan did years ago using our own ethical development - about which he was undoubtedly right - as a starting point to his benevolent alien hypothesis]. Any John Doe in Arizona could have come up with the very same arguments Prof. Hawking presents. All heīs doing is disseminating fear, uncertainty and doubt.

It even looks he has agenda. But probably heīs only nostalgic of the limelight.

[eburacum45]

The 'benevolent alien' hypothesis of Sagan is naive, unfortunately. Hawking is more correct to expect extreme, unpredictable diversity amongst intelligent aliens.

[Argos]

The 'benevolent alien' hypothesis of Sagan is naive, unfortunately. Hawking is more correct to expect extreme, unpredictable diversity amongst intelligent aliens.

He must prove it with arguments, however feeble they may be. He canīt rely solely on his Lucasian status to have us follow him like lambs. Heīs got to do what Sagan brilliantly did [naively or not, but talking like a scientist].

[eburacum45]

No matter how brillaint Sagan's arguments were, they are likely to be wrong. Evolution produces predators, as well as prey.

[Argos]

Yeah, and the universe is full of spacefaring lizards ready to suck our blood [wait, I have seen that before]. Ok, Iīll buy it.

[eburacum45]

I expect an intelligent alien civilisation to be logical, rather than fierce or bloodthirsty. Unfortunately there are many different types of logic that can be applied to the question of survival. One type of logic is that 'any other intelligent alien civilisation is our rival or potential rival for resources; we should make sure that any threat they might pose to us in the future is minimised.'

If an alien civilisation wants to minimise the potential threat which Humanity might pose in the future there are several ways it can achieve that end. The aliens might absorb and overwhelm our culture, or reduce it to a manageable state which would pose no threat, or simply bombard us with relativistic missiles. In each of these cases humanity loses its ability to determine its own future.

Do I think this is likely? Not at all.
Do I think it is possible? Unfortunately yes.

[R.A.F.]

It's refreshing to hear this viewpoint as most mainstream media coverage on SETI, METI, etc, seems to start and finish with the assumption that any advanced alien civilisation would be benevolent.

Why is it "refreshing"?? You're basically making the same assumptions just in the opposite "direction".

[Argos]

One type of logic is that 'any other intelligent alien civilisation is our rival or potential rival for resources; we should make sure that any threat they might pose to us in the future is minimised.'

The problem is that this is still human logic. There canīt be rivals when any two species are separated by millions of years of evolution. Or do you think there will be two given galactic powers that are in the same level of technological development? A galactic version of the USA x USSR? Of all the fragile arguments that revolve around these types of conjecture, the rivalry argument is surely the weakest one.

[Geo Kaplan]

The world being nearly resource exhausted is good for scrap at best....I start the bidding at one qualoon....

Has a new Triskelion currency replaced the quatloo?