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Thread: Project Cloverleaf - The Science Behind it

  1. #1
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    Project Cloverleaf - The Science Behind it

    There are truly many more learned sceintific minds on this site than my own. I don't how many of you are familiar with the purported "Project Cloverleaf" that allegedly entails the military use of nano-sized chemicals (aluminum, barium, etc.) within the United States for purposes of high grade weapons and more far out usages (mind control, etc.).

    I would love for anyone to opine on 2 facets of these alllegations:

    #1 Does the sceince (sci-fi) in the attached artcile hold together as it sounds like huge leaps of faith in certain areas but I lack the technical training to try to tear it apart?

    #2 Even if the sceince loosely holds together, at least from a theoritical standpoint, wouldn't the price tage of such a project be cost prohibitive to be done in a clandestine ("off budget", a la DARPA) manner?

    Here's a link to one source article/blog along with an extract.


    http://www.rense.com/general79/chem.htm

    It involves the combination of chemtrails for creating an atmosphere that will support electromagnetic waves, ground-based, electromagnetic field oscillators called gyrotrons, and ionospheric heaters. Particulates make directed energy weapons work better. It has to do with "steady state" and particle density for plasma beam propagation.

    They spray barium powders and let it photo-ionize from the ultraviolet light of the sun. Then, they make an aluminum-plasma generated by "zapping" the metal cations that are in the spray with either electromagnetics from HAARP, the gyrotron system on the ground [Ground Wave Emergency Network], or space-based lasers. The barium makes the aluminum-plasma more particulate dense. This means they can make a denser plasma than they normally could from just ionizing the atmosphere or the air.

    More density [more particles] means that these particles which are colliding into each other will become more charged because there are more of them present to collide. What are they ultimately trying to do up there -- is create charged-particle, plasma beam weapons.

    Chemtrails are the medium - GWEN pulse radars, the various HAARPs, and space-based lasers are the method, or more simply:

    Chemtrails are the medium -- directed energy is the method.

    Spray and Zap.

    This system appears to be in Russia, Canada, the United States, and all of Europe. Exotic weapons can be mobile, stationary, land-based, aerial, or satellite.

    It is an offensive and defensive system against EM attacks and missiles. It uses ionospheric particle shells as defense mechanisms [like a bug-zapper shell]* against missiles and EM attacks. That means they spray and then pump up the spray with electromagnetics. When these shells are created using the oscillating, electromagnetic, gyrotron stations, it "excludes" and displaces the background magnetic field. These shells can be layered one above another in a canopy fashion for extra protection from missiles. The chemtrail sprays have various elements in them like carbon which can used to absorb microwaves. Some of these sprays have metal flakes in them that make aerial craft invisible to radar. Spoofer sprays. Sprays like these can be used to create colorful, magnetized plasmas to cloak fighter jets.

    There are satellite weapons involved. Activists are using meters and are getting readings of microwaves, x-rays, and some other kind of emission that they are not sure of, maybe a low-intensity laser.

    They are also photographing gas plasma generation due to the heating of chemtrails by electromagnetics. The technical names for vertical and horizontal plasma columns are columnar focal lenses and horizontal drift plasma antennas. Various size of gas plasma orbs are associated with this technology. These orbs can be used as transmitters and receivers because they have great, refractory and optical properties. They also are capable of transmitting digital or analog sound. Barium, in fact, is very refractive -- more refractive than glass.

    What does that mean? Someone or someones are very involved in unconstitutional, domestic spying and the entrained plasma orbs carried on electromagnetic beams can be used for mind control programming. The satellites can be programmed to track and monitor various frequencies on different parts of your body. These electromagnetic beams carrying the gas plasma orbs stick due magnetic polarity and frequency mapping and tracking to people's eyes, ears, temples, and private parts. A beam with entrained orbs carries pictures in each orb just like the different frames in a movie. It is a particle beam that is also a frequency weapon.

    The satellites download holographic mind control movies, pictures, sounds, and sensations to people through this technology. The Air Force has stated in "Air Force 2025" that their goal is to develop virtual and augmented reality mind control. Depending on the how the computer is programmed or depending on the mood or intent of the person interfacing with the technology, you can be probed, bothered, gaslighted, frightened, manipulated, electronically raped, or tortured. It scans your brain frequencies and deciphers your thoughts. The satellites track you by mapping your bioenergetic signature [body biometrics] and constantly scanning an area to find you.

    We are the lab rats for this technology and something is very wrong in the military or intelligence branches somewhere. Because developmental projects in government and military are often so compartmentalized, I suppose someone could be using and developing this technology secretly and without authorization. Then again, behavioral and mind control programs were an authorized policy under MKULTRA. Our country has a history of experimenting on its citizens. We are talking about satellite charged-particle frequency weapons attacking a person 24 hours a day. Psychotronic weapons are considered weapons of mass destruction by the U.N.

    "HAARPs" can create earthquakes and can also x-ray the earth to find underground military bases, gold, or oil reserves. These ionospheric heaters can also operate as an over-the-horizon or under-the-ocean communications system. This system can control the weather or create disasters. Taken together with the aurora keyhole through-your-roof satellite surveillance system, Echelon electronic computer/phone sweeps, plasma-cloaked DOD Drug War helicopters and stealths, implants, and cameras on the street, it constitutes one, big global and space control grid.

    These weapons involve beams. Two beams overlapped will couple into a particle-ion beam that will bounce off of a remote target and send a holographic image back to the satellite for remote spying operations. When you cross two strong beams, you can supposedly* create scalar energies. These energies can be used as untraceable weapons for nuclear size explosions or for defense. These crossed-energies can be used to cause a person's physical electrical system to fail or with a lower frequency, administer a kind of remote electro-shock. Visualize touching a positive and negative electric cable to each other on top of your head. Scalar energies can be utilized in hand-held military guns and on tanks. They can dud-out electronics or cause large, electrical blackouts. Scalar energies are practically impossible to shield against. You need lead, ceramics, and a deep underground facility to not be affected by these weapons. Or, you need to be up and above the field of battle.
    Last edited by Swift; 2010-Apr-23 at 08:56 PM. Reason: changed the HTML block to a quote - Moderator Swift

  2. #2
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    Chemtrails?


    Seriously?

    It's bogus.

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    Chemtrails and anything from rense.com is Conspiracy Theory nonsense, so I have moved this to the CT forum.

    KABOOM, since you just appear to be asking about it, and you are not advocating belief in this conspiracy, you are not under the normal obligations of this forum to supply evidence and answer questions (see here for more details about these rules). However, if you do start advocating this theory, you will be held to these obligations.

    I also changed the HTML block to a Quote - I think it is easier to read.
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    Fixing the thread title would be a good idea. I think the word you meant to write is "Science."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjl View Post
    Chemtrails?
    Also HAARP, scaler weapons, weather control, mind control, satellites that can read your mind . . .

    I think someone had a lot of fun putting this smorgasbord CT together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurelHS View Post
    Fixing the thread title would be a good idea. I think the word you meant to write is "Science."
    We have the technology
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    I fully believed this theory to be nonsense. I just was looking for a couple of concrete scientific principles with which to debunk it as it was raised in a metaphysical/archeological site that I frequent.
    Sorry for posting it in the wrong forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KABOOM View Post
    There are truly many more learned sceintific minds on this site than my own. I don't how many of you are familiar with the purported "Project Cloverleaf" that allegedly entails the military use of nano-sized chemicals (aluminum, barium, etc.) within the United States for purposes of high grade weapons and more far out usages (mind control, etc.).

    I would love for anyone to opine on 2 facets of these alllegations:

    #1 Does the science (sci-fi) in the attached artcile hold together as it sounds like huge leaps of faith in certain areas but I lack the technical training to try to tear it apart?
    Even without a solid technical/scientific background, just ask yourself -- does this sound more like science or science fiction? The article is so loaded with technical-'sounding' gobbledegook that many terms literally demand confirmation/reconciliation. Looking them up, however, leads nowhere. These are just high-sounding tales of nonsense.


    #2 Even if the science loosely holds together, at least from a theoretical standpoint, wouldn't the price tag of such a project be cost prohibitive to be done in a clandestine ("off budget", a la DARPA) manner?

    'Even if' suggests 'if'. Please tell me why such an if is meaningful. If 'if' leads to a solid 'then' then you have something. Otherwise, it usually leads to a 'but', and is a waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torch2k View Post
    Even without a solid technical/scientific background, just ask yourself -- does this sound more like science or science fiction? The article is so loaded with technical-'sounding' gobbledegook that many terms literally demand confirmation/reconciliation. Looking them up, however, leads nowhere. These are just high-sounding tales of nonsense.


    #2 Even if the science loosely holds together, at least from a theoretical standpoint, wouldn't the price tag of such a project be cost prohibitive to be done in a clandestine ("off budget", a la DARPA) manner?

    'Even if' suggests 'if'. Please tell me why such an if is meaningful. If 'if' leads to a solid 'then' then you have something. Otherwise, it usually leads to a 'but', and is a waste of time.

    I hear you. I did respond as such when presented with this topic. However, I was tasked with providing some substance for my skepticism. Hence, my post here. I reject it on 2 premises. The science even to me seemed hokey. Further, the ability of the Govt to run operations of this sort today is non-existent.

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    Okay, I read as far as the word "chemtrails." We just closed a very long discussion on the subject--the short answer is that it's got to be one of the single most impractical delivery systems suggested for mind control, and that's without getting into a whole lot of other reasons that, well, I stopped reading at the word "chemtrails."
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    Quote Originally Posted by KABOOM View Post
    I hear you. I did respond as such when presented with this topic. However, I was tasked with providing some substance for my skepticism.
    You aren't making the claims. It isn't your burden of proof. They should be the ones to provide substance for their claims.

    If I were in your place, I'd be asking questions. I'd want some evidence for the claims, both in part and together.

    For a few specifics, I'd want:

    Evidence to support chemtrails (not contrails).

    Evidence for and background of "scaler" energy and "scaler" weapons.

    Evidence that the real-world HAARP can be used in the way suggested in the article.

    Evidence that "gas plasma orbs" can be used for mind control programming.

    Evidence that satellites "download holographic mind control movies" to people.

    I could list quite a few more. The article is chock full of technobabble and wild assertions.

    Speaking of technobabble, I'd also ask things like: What is a "charged-particle frequency weapon" as opposed to, say, a "charged-particle weapon"?

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln

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    Quote Originally Posted by KABOOM View Post
    However, I was tasked with providing some substance for my skepticism.
    Reject the task.

    It's self-parodying material.
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

  13. #13
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    I'll start with the very first sentence:
    It involves the combination of chemtrails for creating an atmosphere that will support electromagnetic waves,
    Electromagnetic waves can travel through a vacuum. Depending upon their frequency, they can travel just fine through an atmosphere, thus we see visible light, infrared travels pretty well, ultraviolet and x-rays can, but not as well. So what exactly does that even mean?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KABOOM View Post
    I fully believed this theory to be nonsense. I just was looking for a couple of concrete scientific principles with which to debunk it as it was raised in a metaphysical/archeological site that I frequent.
    Sorry for posting it in the wrong forum.
    Absolutely no problem to move it. And the rest was because sometimes advocates of this nonsense try to backdoor this stuff with a "I'm only asking a question" gambit. We like to make sure everyone understands the rules.
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    ...Two beams overlapped will couple into a particle-ion beam...
    Don't cross the streams.

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    I was almost lured into a point by point rebuttal, but really, this is a tract which lurches from one speculative claim to the next with not a single shred of evidence. Start with claim 1, which is a chemtrail claim.
    Do those even exist?
    Is there any evidence for them?

    If the initial premise cannot be proven, then the rest is simply science fiction.

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    From the blurb.
    "There are satellite weapons involved. Activists are using meters and are getting readings of microwaves, x-rays, and some other kind of emission that they are not sure of, maybe a low-intensity laser."
    I would ask what receiving gear they are using. What frequencies etc. There are loads of frequencies in use and then there is the background shash that will be picked up, your TV will do this. Unless they provide info on the gear used, activists can claim all they want. I have had results with a bin lid getting sat TV (metal trash can I think for the US?) but that was in the analogue days.


    Edit, and how can they pick up satellite tx frequencies and laser?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedward View Post
    "... Activists are using meters ...
    Good for them. Promoting the metric system.
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    Seriously it is them who make the claims that have the burdon of proof. Not you.

    I believe another poster said it pretty well when he said.
    Its nonsensicle to demand someone to proove that magical invisible elves do not exist and are living in my backyard.

    I think the lack of giant tanks attatched to air planes is pretty good proof to me. It would seriously take some pretty large tanks of chemicles to creat clouds of the stuff in the sky for miles and miles and miles. I think the tanks would have to be bigger than the plane itself.
    Unless of coarse the secrete goverment mind controll chemicle is super concentrated and only requires a little bit to stink up several square mile (Kinda like Febreeze). But that would be moving the goal post. every time you tell the conspiracy people why it wouldn't work they just move the goal post back further and make up something else so they can keep up their conspiracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    Good for them. Promoting the metric system.
    Awful thing, I am a curmudgeonly imperial lover.....

    But back to the gear. Kaboom, there are loads of satellite uplink trucks around the world working for news corp or showing football on a weekend etc. This spraying would also have an effect on that, people would start losing the uplink when a plane sprayed over according to that article.

    And this comment "They also are capable of transmitting digital or analog sound. " Bit mystic? Didn't know our ears can pick up satellite transmitted audio?

    Edit, especially our ability to sort out the 1 and 0 that goes into digital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Seriously it is them who make the claims that have the burdon of proof. Not you.

    I believe another poster said it pretty well when he said.
    Its nonsensicle to demand someone to proove that magical invisible elves do not exist and are living in my backyard.

    I think the lack of giant tanks attatched to air planes is pretty good proof to me. It would seriously take some pretty large tanks of chemicles to creat clouds of the stuff in the sky for miles and miles and miles. I think the tanks would have to be bigger than the plane itself.
    Unless of coarse the secrete goverment mind controll chemicle is super concentrated and only requires a little bit to stink up several square mile (Kinda like Febreeze). But that would be moving the goal post. every time you tell the conspiracy people why it wouldn't work they just move the goal post back further and make up something else so they can keep up their conspiracy.
    Someone posted an interesting article on the other locked thread on chem trails and I forget who and have lost the link. It had some interesting information on the size of container required. If memory serves me, it would be an impossibility?? (something along the size of an ocean liner?)

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    I think the government perhaps is using the misquito trucks to deliver the super secrete chemicles.
    I always feel a little foggy after they spray their toxic fumes.

    Or they might be dusting junk mail with the stuff. Everyone will come in contact with it then.

    Or even they put it in every vaccine and booster shot.

    The possibilities are endless. literaly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    It involves the combination of chemtrails for creating an atmosphere that will support electromagnetic waves,
    This assumes that chemtrails are real, but doesn't provide any evidence for that.
    As already pointed out, the atmosphere supports the transmission of all sorts of EM radiation as it stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    ground-based, electromagnetic field oscillators called gyrotrons,

    a device used in heating applications. so far as I know their range is insufficient for the wild claims made.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    and ionospheric heaters.
    There are several such facilities, so what?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    Particulates make directed energy weapons work better. It has to do with "steady state" and particle density for plasma beam propagation.
    Do they? Provide any scientific reference you like for examination

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    They spray barium powders and let it photo-ionize from the ultraviolet light of the sun.
    No they dont. there is no evidence for this occurring anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    Then, they make an aluminum-plasma generated by "zapping" the metal cations that are in the spray with either electromagnetics from HAARP, the gyrotron system on the ground [Ground Wave Emergency Network],
    So the barium transmutes somehow into aluminium. Thats chemistry. Please provide the chemistry which justifies this wild claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    or space-based lasers.
    I would be looking for evidence as to where and when these were launched, who built the and how are they kept secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    The barium makes the aluminum-plasma more particulate dense. This means they can make a denser plasma than they normally could from just ionizing the atmosphere or the air.

    More density [more particles] means that these particles which are colliding into each other will become more charged because there are more of them present to collide. What are they ultimately trying to do up there -- is create charged-particle, plasma beam weapons.
    And off we go with the contradictions. Previously the barium transmuted into aluminium, now the barium is simply a catalyst. Which is it? And if the barium is just a catalyst, there is the further problem of explaining how the aluminium got there.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    Chemtrails are the medium
    Yet chemtrails are not proven to exist, nor will they ever be.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    - GWEN pulse radars, the various HAARPs, and space-based lasers are the method, or more simply:

    Chemtrails are the medium -- directed energy is the method.
    Yet more wild claims, with no science or evidence behind them, predicated on the existence of the mythical chemtrails.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    Spray and Zap.
    Nice sound bite, but 0 evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    This system appears to be in Russia, Canada, the United States, and all of Europe.
    so it only applies to quarter of the world population. Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    Exotic weapons can be mobile, stationary, land-based, aerial, or satellite.
    That may be so, but if even their very existence cannot be shown to be true, then we may as well be talking about flower fairies.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
    It is an offensive and defensive system against EM attacks and missiles. It uses ionospheric particle shells as defense mechanisms [like a bug-zapper shell]* against missiles and EM attacks. That means they spray and then pump up the spray with electromagnetics. When these shells are created using the oscillating, electromagnetic, gyrotron stations, it "excludes" and displaces the background magnetic field. These shells can be layered one above another in a canopy fashion for extra protection from missiles. The chemtrail sprays have various elements in them like carbon which can used to absorb microwaves. Some of these sprays have metal flakes in them that make aerial craft invisible to radar. Spoofer sprays. Sprays like these can be used to create colorful, magnetized plasmas to cloak fighter jets.

    There are satellite weapons involved. Activists are using meters and are getting readings of microwaves, x-rays, and some other kind of emission that they are not sure of, maybe a low-intensity laser.

    They are also photographing gas plasma generation due to the heating of chemtrails by electromagnetics. The technical names for vertical and horizontal plasma columns are columnar focal lenses and horizontal drift plasma antennas. Various size of gas plasma orbs are associated with this technology. These orbs can be used as transmitters and receivers because they have great, refractory and optical properties. They also are capable of transmitting digital or analog sound. Barium, in fact, is very refractive -- more refractive than glass.

    What does that mean? Someone or someones are very involved in unconstitutional, domestic spying and the entrained plasma orbs carried on electromagnetic beams can be used for mind control programming. The satellites can be programmed to track and monitor various frequencies on different parts of your body. These electromagnetic beams carrying the gas plasma orbs stick due magnetic polarity and frequency mapping and tracking to people's eyes, ears, temples, and private parts. A beam with entrained orbs carries pictures in each orb just like the different frames in a movie. It is a particle beam that is also a frequency weapon.

    The satellites download holographic mind control movies, pictures, sounds, and sensations to people through this technology. The Air Force has stated in "Air Force 2025" that their goal is to develop virtual and augmented reality mind control. Depending on the how the computer is programmed or depending on the mood or intent of the person interfacing with the technology, you can be probed, bothered, gaslighted, frightened, manipulated, electronically raped, or tortured. It scans your brain frequencies and deciphers your thoughts. The satellites track you by mapping your bioenergetic signature [body biometrics] and constantly scanning an area to find you.

    We are the lab rats for this technology and something is very wrong in the military or intelligence branches somewhere. Because developmental projects in government and military are often so compartmentalized, I suppose someone could be using and developing this technology secretly and without authorization. Then again, behavioral and mind control programs were an authorized policy under MKULTRA. Our country has a history of experimenting on its citizens. We are talking about satellite charged-particle frequency weapons attacking a person 24 hours a day. Psychotronic weapons are considered weapons of mass destruction by the U.N.

    "HAARPs" can create earthquakes and can also x-ray the earth to find underground military bases, gold, or oil reserves. These ionospheric heaters can also operate as an over-the-horizon or under-the-ocean communications system. This system can control the weather or create disasters. Taken together with the aurora keyhole through-your-roof satellite surveillance system, Echelon electronic computer/phone sweeps, plasma-cloaked DOD Drug War helicopters and stealths, implants, and cameras on the street, it constitutes one, big global and space control grid.

    These weapons involve beams. Two beams overlapped will couple into a particle-ion beam that will bounce off of a remote target and send a holographic image back to the satellite for remote spying operations. When you cross two strong beams, you can supposedly* create scalar energies. These energies can be used as untraceable weapons for nuclear size explosions or for defense. These crossed-energies can be used to cause a person's physical electrical system to fail or with a lower frequency, administer a kind of remote electro-shock. Visualize touching a positive and negative electric cable to each other on top of your head. Scalar energies can be utilized in hand-held military guns and on tanks. They can dud-out electronics or cause large, electrical blackouts. Scalar energies are practically impossible to shield against. You need lead, ceramics, and a deep underground facility to not be affected by these weapons. Or, you need to be up and above the field of battle.
    All of these remaining paragraphs are predicated on the truth of the first few. Given the falsity of the first few, there is no point deconstructing these. They do contain a few CT gems though.

    Kaboom, this is not directed at you, its just my take on the claims, and the questions I would immediately ask. Its a big house of cards, but the bottom layer is entirely missing.

  24. #24
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    Is it even scientifically possible to mind-control a single human, let alone entire nations?

    - Maha Vailo

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    It's called marketing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozola View Post
    It's called marketing.
    I meant mind control as in the way the conspiracy theorists allege. Marketing is persuasion, not mind control.

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    that's what they want you to think
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Vailo View Post
    I meant mind control as in the way the conspiracy theorists allege. Marketing is persuasion, not mind control.
    Especially given that not everyone in the targeted demographic then runs out and buys whatever product they're selling.

    True, complete mind control has never been found to be possible. Probably not even mind control in the sense CTs mean, where it's just influencing how people react to certain things. (As in, do the PTB really care that I put in Koyaanisqatsi this morning before Christmas in July?) Personally, I find it unlikely.
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    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

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    I've moved Tony7777's new post and the response to their own new thread, and I'm closing this one. That way, we'll keep everything nice and neat.
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