Ball lightning

[Delvo]

I first heard of ball lightning years ago, and in that case it was described as a rare but well-established natural electrical phenomenon associated with storms, but in round form instead of bolts, and not flickering, with its cause/mechanism not being entirely known. I recently tried checking to see whether more information had become available about it since then, and found out that such a phenomenon isn't verified to even exist, and the name "ball lightning" has a roughly legendary status, due to that and the fact that it's apparently been applied to a variety of things that weren't very much like each other (different sizes, colors, elevations, speeds of movement, durations, amounts of damage done to objects, types of weather they were seen under, and sometimes flamey or having a tail but sometimes not).

The reason I was rethinking ball lightning recently was that I had reason to believe I'd just seen it myself, so now I'm curious what explanations are possible for what I saw. I was outside near the entrance to the store I work at during a storm. Suddenly a ball of bright blue-white light several feet wide appeared above and behind another store across the street and down the block a bit, bright enough to light up the nearby buildings like lightning does. It stayed consistently bright for 2-4 seconds instead of flickering, while floating a few times its own diameter toward my right, and then went out. Electrical service for a couple of blocks around was lost for at least 4 hours.

It wasn't regular lightning, because it wasn't bolt-shaped, didn't flicker, and didn't make thunder. I know there's a transformer back there and I'm sure it popped (which has happened there before), but I've seen another transformer pop before and this was different. A normal one only emits a burst of light for a fraction of a second, and doesn't detach from its pole and go floating around horizontally.

I haven't thought of anything that would behave that way. I thought some kind of gas or a cloud of solid particles could have been released hot and cooled off, but it was perfectly round, and it didn't move vertically, or spread out or change shape, or drift in the wind's direction. I thought of an electrical wire with some kind of energy-releasing reaction passing along it, propagating as a very slow wave, but the light-ball was much wider than a wire.

If it's a not-precisely-explained natural phenomenon that happens in storms, then I guess it falls into what I originally thought was the definition of ball lightning. But even if someone out there knows exactly what it is and it's to be expected sometimes from transformers and power lines in storms, it just looked so odd that I'd bet it's what's behind some "ball lightning" sightings anyway.

[dgavin]

Actualy there is some real research being done on Ball Lightning, and the begins of an explaination for it. A brazilian group of scientists had corolated that ball lighting was very prevelant in areas with volcanic ashes, so they started tinkering around with Silicon wafers and simulated lightning. And they produced something that behaved very much like Ball lightning does. What they discovered is that lightning strikes can vaporize materials, and if the conditions are correct, those vapoers (such as gasous silicon) may burn in a slow oxidation process in air, lasting from around 1 seconds, upwards of 8 seconds in the labatory. Time frames also seemingly in line with the ball lightning phenomina.

So soils that are righ in silicates, also some metals like Iron, Magnesium, Lead, and Aluminum will produce burnable(oxidizable) vapors when struck by lighning.

It's still a very new model for Ball Lighting, and doesn't have much supporting experimentation as of yet, but it does seem to explain most instances of it. Including ball lightning seen during earthquake events.

[Trebuchet]

My late mother told of a ball lightning episode in her grandparents' home when she was little. It sounded really frightening. I wish I could remember her description of it better.

[Romanus]

That sounds just like ball lightning, though as you mentioned the accounts of its behavior vary enormously.

[mugaliens]

During several thousand hours of flying, I experienced it just once dancing across our windscreen.

Eerie.

[SkepticJ]

Mugs, that was probably St. Elmo's fire.

[flynjack1]

I have seen ball lighting. Circa 1994 I was driving outside Big Bend National Park when during a thunderstorm I witnessed it. What I remember, was seeing a basketball sized blob of yellowish/whitelish colored plasma bouncing along the ground for roughly 3-5 seconds then disappearing in a bang. I was stunned. What I am still not sure of but think I remember was a lighting strike preceeding the event. But as we were driving and I was in the back of the car and was in a perfect position to see the ball lighting as it passed on our right but my forward vision was obstructed by another passengers head. It was lightly raining at the time, but numerous thunderstorms had rolled through the area during the afternoon and this occurred in the late afternoon early evening.

[tusenfem]

Not too long ago there was a paper on ball lightning in Annales Geophysicae.

[Romanus]

Re Flynjack: That's an awesome account (bonus for it being in my state ). I met someone else who recalled a very similar incident, in which a nearby lightning strike sparked at least one and possibly two "balls" that rolled across the road and exploded.

[mugaliens]

Mugs, that was probably St. Elmo's fire.

No. St. Elmo's fire is a distinctly different phenomenon.

[showboat]

Might have valuable meteorite if you can remember the location.

It would easy if metal on the other way might not be easy as a metal detector so might more valualble check below the floor boards if a hole.

50/50 is far enough[legal land owner/discoverer] for a metoerite wealth

[mugaliens]

50/50 is far enough[legal land owner/discoverer] for a metoerite wealth

I found a meteorite in the desert while in Iraq. it's about the size of my fist. By it's heft, it's almost certainly nickel-iron. How much to you think that would be worth? Ballpark figure...

[tdvance]

At work, our top tech news stories (I forgot the source) said a new hypothesis is that Ball Lightning is hallucination---and in fact, showed that nearby electrical charges of the intensity that builds up in a thunderstorm can induce "phosphenes". Now, there are problems with that explanation: phosphenes don't light up other things. Also, surely multiple people have seen ball lightning from multiple angles simultaneously and described it in the same 3d location---or I'd think so anyway---that would not be much like phosphenes.

(Phosphenes are "artifacts" of the visual system, things you see not actually present, but NOT like a dreamy haluciantion, as they are caused by nerve stimulation----e.g. "seeing stars" is an example, as is seeing a web shape in the dark, or waking up in the middle of the night and seeing flashing colors in the dark, or just being in the dark for long enough to become sensitive to noise rather than signal---which is why it's called "prisoner's cinema", from the days of dark dungeons.)

[tdvance]

And speaking of which---Universe Today:

http://www.universetoday.com/2010/05...hallucination/

[flynjack1]

Mugs, There are some webb sites where you can check known meteorite falls (strewn fields) against the location where you found this. If you can tie the meteorite to a known strewn field its value will go up. It could be worth 100's of dollars at a minimum and much more depending on a number of aspects. Generally the most valuable or meteorites can be tied to specific asteroids or planets, martian meteorites and lunar meteorites are exceptionally valuable. Finding a Lunar or Martian meteorite is like hitting the lotto.

As far as the Hallucination theory, I can understand how people might assume that, however having witnessed such an event my self with others in the car also seeing it I would say it was no hallucination. the ball moved probably 45 degrees from my 2 O'Clock roughly to my 4 or 5 O'Clock position. Since I didn't directly see the lighting strike it wasn't a retinal image left from a bright light source. I was completely clear headed and fully conscious, though perhaps slightly dehydrated from flying in the hot conditions that day. I have no reason to doubt what I saw that I can think of.

[Delvo]

I also have a bit of trouble with the hallucination theory. If there were such an effect on my visual functions, then why none on any other functions going on in the same head at the same time? And they explained how a certain flashing/flickering rate could appear to be constant, but did not account for the ball shape (which means a LACK of bolts). (They also didn't mention the floating movement, but I can imagine my own explanations for that in hallucination context; I just can't picture an explanation for why I'd see the hallucinated constant light in the shape of a ball and not see the bolt that caused it at all.)

I was in the correct range of distances away from it, though, so now I wonder: when they said this theory explains it from those distances, did they mean that it still doesn't explain ball lightning observed at other distances, or that ball lightning simply hasn't been reported from other distances?

[flynjack1]

One story that I was not present for, but seems perhaps germane. A crew that I know very well (and trust) told the following story. On approach in a stormy environment the aircraft had two pilots in the cockpit and one crewman in the far aft of the seating area (roughly 12-14 feet away). During approach a ball of plasma burst from the cockpit windshield and rolled down the aisle toward the back and evaporated right in front of the aft crewman. They were very close to this phenomenon and in a dark environment. They had been seeing some Saint Elmo's fire previous to this occurring. Wild story but I have no reason to doubt my fellow pilots who related this story. Incidentally this also happened in Texas, down near Laredo I believe.

[Nicolas]

A long time ago (50 years or more), my mother saw ball lightning at home. During a storm, a ball of light ran across the floor for multiple seconds and then seemed to disappear into a metal drain in the (kitchen) floor. Her sisters also saw it; they climbed up their chairs as they watched it.

As she tends to be the opposite of woowoo, I take her as a reliable source.

[Romanus]

I don't buy the hallucination explanation either--some, perhaps, but not all. For instance, there are cases of ball lightning occurring during a storm, but not immediately after a lightning strike; in fact, there are some in which "classic" lightning isn't seen at all at the time, only the sudden appearance of a glowing sphere floating through the air or rolling on the ground. Also, despite the aforementioned variety in sightings, there are some consistent, if not constant features: small size, erratic movement, an oft-reported ozone-like smell in the vicinity, disappearing with a bang.

I highly recommend Stanley Singer's The Nature of Ball Lightning, which, despite its age, I consider a definitive work on the subject (and a whole lot cheaper than more recent monographs on the subject).

[mugaliens]

At work, our top tech news stories (I forgot the source) said a new hypothesis is that Ball Lightning is hallucination...

Sorry, but you lost me at the point where you questioned my faculties, particular with respect to "phosphenes." Hey! I'm retired, but I have some friends heading back to the sandbox - they'll show you some "phosphenes" if you're willing to go along for the ride.

[mugaliens]

If you can tie the meteorite to a known strewn field its value will go up.

I can pin it to the nearest 30 feet, though it clearly exhibits some use over the years (flat side indicative of grinding or at least abriding animal skins, cloth, etc?)

It could be worth 100's of dollars at a minimum and much more depending on a number of aspects. Generally the most valuable or meteorites can be tied to specific asteroids or planets, martian meteorites and lunar meteorites are exceptionally valuable. Finding a Lunar or Martian meteorite is like hitting the lotto.

If so, sweet. I'm not holding my breath, though.

As far as the Hallucination theory, I can understand how people might assume that, however having witnessed such an event my self with others in the car also seeing it I would say it was no hallucination. the ball moved probably 45 degrees from my 2 O'Clock roughly to my 4 or 5 O'Clock position. Since I didn't directly see the lighting strike it wasn't a retinal image left from a bright light source. I was completely clear headed and fully conscious, though perhaps slightly dehydrated from flying in the hot conditions that day. I have no reason to doubt what I saw that I can think of.

Me, either, and for the same reasons. Some people overly focused on a "can't be!" attitude will question us for the next millennia because they're unable to let go of their compulsion.

Oh, well!

[Boratssister]

My late mother told of a ball lightning episode in her grandparents' home when she was little. It sounded really frightening. I wish I could remember her description of it better.

My grandma was blinded for 3 weeks because of ball lightning. This happened around 50years ago in Rivelin Valley in Sheffield . She and 5 grandkids and grandkids friends noticed a ball of light, a basket ball in diameter in a huge thunder storm. It slowly floated to the top of a tree and subsequently exploded. They watched it it for a number of seconds which led my nan to shelter the children. She and 2 of my uncles were blinded for some time.
The story is famous in our family so I'm inclined to believe in ball lightening.

[dgavin]

Mass Hallusination... IMHO anyone using that term has abandoned science in favor of their own belief of what is happening. It's a easy way to get out of trying to explain something difficult. I don't have an issue with electrical fields causing visual cortex to miss fire, that would most definitely not be a Hallucination. I also seriously seriously doubt that many witnesses would be seeing the same thing in the same location if it was visual cortex misfiring.

Mass Hallucination is not the top scientific explanation for Ball Lighting. It's nothing but an -Out-.

[tdvance]

Mass hallucination in this case, merely means electrical-discharge-induced phosphenes.

[dgavin]

Yes which I admit is possible. However the accounts with multiple witnesses always put ball lightning in the same place. Such an induced visual stimulation would be random as to where each witness saw the effect. Additionaly it discounts the physical damage ball lighting has been reported to do on occasion.

[Green]

Ball Lightning: My Father and Grand-Father were linemen and shared several ball lightning stories with us. They felt that this lightning became less common with the advent of better grounding techniques on incoming phone and power wiring.
Ball lightning would often occur during a storm and seemed to come from the telephone or a power outlet and bounce around the farm house on the hard wood floors.
Dad was hanging from a phone cable in one of those two man splicing tents. He noticed ball lightning traveling this cable and approaching them from a storm miles away. They had no where to go. They dropped their tools and sat up straight allowing the ball to pass between them with no ill effect.

[publiusr]

You'd think with all the stormchasers in the field that we'd have some video.

[johnNdeb]

Interesting, ball lightning during a thunderstorm? I watched a documentary that dealt with this topic and they said nothing about it happening during a storm. Their hypothesis was that certain types of rocks that are under immense pressure will release ball lightning. They even proved this in the lab. Evidently, there are even places where people go to observe this phenomena happening consistantly in the area. One place was somewhere in Texas. The program shot video of this unusual sight and I was amazed at how long these balls of light would just float around. Some no farther off the ground than a couple of feet and others shot up to around 20 feet before flickering out or just disappearing all together.

[Green]

Stormchasers probably have shots of BEAD Lightning.
Most of the BALL Lightning that I have heard of is indoors.
Anyway, they are both shocking.

[a1call]

Was reluctant to post this since it's just a google away. Look for a bright falling dot just a minute into the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qevVKCIAdwM

Anywho, Last year a colleague of mine came to the office in the afternoon all exited about what she had seen during a rain storm. she described it as round and colorful. I told her that it must have been a ball lightening. I have never seen one myself.