What are you playing?

[NickW]

Lucky you, Van. I had one glitch that completely locked my PS3 so far.

On another note. I love story intensive games. A lot of people complained about MGS4 because they felt like the whole game was a movie with some playable parts. I thought the game was outstanding (as long as you can stop being confused for 5 minutes when it comes from Hideo). I am only about 20 hours into ME3 right now, but I have a feeling I have a lot to go as I am trying to complete a lot of side quests. After I finish I have Uncharted 3 waiting for me in a Gamefly envelope, which I promised myself I would touch until I finished ME3. Of course, after I finish Uncharted, I will probably run another play through of ME 3 just for the hell of it.

[Moose]

Started playing Mass Effect 3 today. I'm enjoying it so far.

[Van Rijn]

Fairly recently, they've said their going to add to the ending of Mass Effect 3 in some fashion, and after having played it, I'd recommend not playing the final mission until the expanded ending is available. Actually, knowing what I do now, I would recommend anyone who hasn't started the game, but has an interest in the game's story, to hold off until they add whatever they're going to add. If they do it right, it could make for a much more enjoyable game.

The ending got a huge negative response, to the point that articles on the issue are showing up in major newspapers and financial journals as well as the gaming sites.

I was extremely disappointed in the ending. I won't say much here to avoid spoilers, but I felt there were significant plot holes and it doesn't seem game choices have much effect on the existing ending material.

One of the theories being advanced is that they might have changed or edited it (possibly removing important explanations) after an alpha version of the game was leaked. Or maybe they just didn't have time to finish the ending. Some of the plot holes do hint to me that they cut some explanatory material out.

[SeanF]

The ending got a huge negative response, to the point that articles on the issue are showing up in major newspapers and financial journals as well as the gaming sites.

I know nothing of the game, but I did see an Internet posting featuring a photo of the cast of the re-imagined "Battlestar Galactica" over the text, "Still a better ending than Mass Effect 3."

[Van Rijn]

Heh, I won't make comparisons between them here, but that's the meme: They bring up one or another show or movie with an often disliked ending and say "Still a better ending than Mass Effect 3."

[Fazor]

Not liking the ending is one thing. People have actually filed FTC and BBB complaints over it . . . tying up consumer protection services over an ending to a video game that you don't like? Abusing the system for something like that should be a jailable offense.

[Van Rijn]

Yes, some people have done things they shouldn't have, just like some people act unreasonably to, for instance, the outcome of a football game. On the other hand, folks complaining about the Mass Effect 3 ending have raised $80,000 in charity:

http://www.gamefront.com/how-mass-ef...k-for-charity/

[Fazor]

I haven't played the game, but I did watch one of the three possible endings. It seemed perfectly cromulent. It didn't change the way I view Sci-fi. It didn't make me forget who Jules Verne is. And the voice-acting was among the worst I've seen in some time. But it's an ending. *shrug*

The thing I think is funny is that people are acting like the rest of the trilogy was the greatest story ever told, and then the ending screwed it all up. The second game starts with you being brought back from the dead a-la the six-million-dollar man and ends with . . . won't spoil it. But it wasn't like 2's ending was good. *shrug again*

[Van Rijn]

I haven't played the game, but I did watch one of the three possible endings. It seemed perfectly cromulent.

There's essentially one ending (one of the key reasons people are complaining, since most of the game play is irrelevant to the ending), and it's funny how many who haven't played the game are perfectly happy with it.

Sorry, but this is like somebody who hasn't read a book, except maybe for a few pages here or there, trying to tell people who have read the book what they should think.

It didn't change the way I view Sci-fi. It didn't make me forget who Jules Verne is.

A belittling response. I didn't say either of those things. I just said the it was a very poor ending, as have many people who have played the game.

But it's an ending. *shrug*

Not really (it added questions and left others dangling), and what there is, at the moment, is a very bad ending.

The thing I think is funny is that people are acting like the rest of the trilogy was the greatest story ever told, and then the ending screwed it all up.

That's not a fair representation of the prevailing view, and it certainly isn't funny. Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. aren't the "greatest story ever told" either. If you want to put them down, there is certainly plenty of opportunity to point out all the ridiculous stuff in those franchises. You can also point out the many cliches. And why not point at and make fun of the silly fans? Why, there are people that like Star Trek and Star Wars despite all nonsense and cliches! Some even have an emotional investment in the stories! Isn't that ridiculous?

The second game starts with you being brought back from the dead a-la the six-million-dollar man and ends with . . . won't spoil it. But it wasn't like 2's ending was good. *shrug again*

ME II's ending was worlds better than III's. I very much liked ME II's ending.

[ravens_cry]

Tomb Raider.
No, not Anniversary, Tomb Raider, in all its low poly, 320x200, 256 VGA, jumping puzzle goodness.
Right now, I'm in the monastery, the farthest I have ever gotten.
DOSBox for the win in allowing me to play this old classic.

[HenrikOlsen]

That's not a fair representation of the prevailing view, and it certainly isn't funny. Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. aren't the "greatest story ever told" either. If you want to put them down, there is certainly plenty of opportunity to point out all the ridiculous stuff in those franchises. You can also point out the many cliches. And why not point at and make fun of the silly fans? Why, there are people that like Star Trek and Star Wars despite all nonsense and cliches! Some even have an emotional investment in the stories! Isn't that ridiculous?

At least they aren't Twilight.

[Fazor]

There's essentially one ending (one of the key reasons people are complaining, since most of the game play is irrelevant to the ending)...

Isn't there some artistic merit in that though? I'll explain more via PM, as one can't really discus without giving away some amount of spoilers.

... and it's funny how many who haven't played the game are perfectly happy with it.

Sure. But many who *have* played the game are also happy about it. In the end, either you like it or you don't. Feeling one way doesn't mean someone who feels the other is wrong. That's the great thing about opinions.

Still, those who are demanding the ending be changed don't seem to care that doing so would also be forcing a new ending on people who liked the way the game ended. Isn't that just as wrong?

Sorry, but this is like somebody who hasn't read a book, except maybe for a few pages here or there, trying to tell people who have read the book what they should think.

The reason I started with "I haven't played it yet but . . . " was to purposely diminnish my opinion of the ending. Of course I agree that it's not the same for someone who hasn't played it. While we're at it, I wasn't excited or even all that interested in ME3 to begin with. So there's that bias for you to take into account. Lastly, I didn't intend to tell you what you should think. Refer to my above statement on opinion. Just that for me, from my position at this point, it was "fine." More specifically, neither very good or very bad.

A belittling response. I didn't say either of those things. I just said the it was a very poor ending, as have many people who have played the game.

Belittling? For one, you really shouldn't have broken up the quote since the "but it's an ending" is part of that. All I was saying was that I can agree that it wasn't an epic conclusion, which many people were hoping for/expecting.

Not really (it added questions and left others dangling), and what there is, at the moment, is a very bad ending.

Were you not expecting DLC going in to the game? It just seems premature to me for people to complain about plot holes when they know that Bioware has yet to deliver all the content. Now if you want to argue that it's wrong to hold off content then make people buy it via add-ons, then that's a different argument.

That's not a fair representation of the prevailing view, and it certainly isn't funny. Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. aren't the "greatest story ever told" either. If you want to put them down, there is certainly plenty of opportunity to point out all the ridiculous stuff in those franchises. You can also point out the many cliches. And why not point at and make fun of the silly fans? Why, there are people that like Star Trek and Star Wars despite all nonsense and cliches! Some even have an emotional investment in the stories! Isn't that ridiculous?

This was more a musing in respects to my comments above about how some people seem to have been expecting the conclusion to be one of the greatest stories ever told. Which, to me, is an odd thing to expect since, to me, it hasn't been that remarkable of a story to begin with. Great implementation of character choice and consequence? Definitely. Story? It's passable.

ME II's ending was worlds better than III's. I very much liked ME II's ending.

Likely. I can't really compare the ending of the game I've played to the ending of the one I haven't and be objective about it.

[Fazor]

Unrelated to the above ME3 conversation, I have a very short poll about purchasing habits / pricing of games that I put together to gather some data for a piece I'm working on. The number of responses so far is statistically insignificant (well, far more insignificant than I need anyway) so if any of you could take the time to fill it out, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, if you know anyone else who is into games (hobbyist, hardcore, somewhere in between), please pass it on to them.

Video Game Pricing Poll

Thank you!

[Chaos]

Unrelated to the above ME3 conversation, I have a very short poll about purchasing habits / pricing of games that I put together to gather some data for a piece I'm working on. The number of responses so far is statistically insignificant (well, far more insignificant than I need anyway) so if any of you could take the time to fill it out, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, if you know anyone else who is into games (hobbyist, hardcore, somewhere in between), please pass it on to them.

Video Game Pricing Poll

Thank you!

Does the survey include games bought online if physical form, such as through Amazon, or is it strictly limited to retail stores?

[Van Rijn]

Isn't there some artistic merit in that though?

No, not in my opinion. I'd say it's very poor art and feels unfinished. It reminds me of a movie where there was poor editing that removed key information. I don't know whether they ran out of time, or money, or maybe there were internal arguments on the story, but it looks to me like they removed or changed something. Frankly, I'm surprised it got past the test audience like this, which makes me wonder if they changed it at the last minute.

Sure. But many who *have* played the game are also happy about it. In the end, either you like it or you don't. Feeling one way doesn't mean someone who feels the other is wrong. That's the great thing about opinions.

Yet folks complaining about the Mass Effect 3 ending are often being denigrated for their opinion. Anyway, it's hard to verify because different sources are claiming different things, but from what I'm seeing, it looks like the overwhelming majority who have played it aren't happy with the ending. It was significant enough that the company quickly changed their tune, first trying to downplay the issue, then saying they would make some changes.

Still, those who are demanding the ending be changed don't seem to care that doing so would also be forcing a new ending on people who liked the way the game ended. Isn't that just as wrong?

Most people are asking for more choice of endings and more detail and explanation to address plot holes introduced with the current ending. That would be choices and information in addition to what already exists. I don't see why additional choices would have to force anything on players who like the current ending.

Belittling? For one, you really shouldn't have broken up the quote since the "but it's an ending" is part of that. All I was saying was that I can agree that it wasn't an epic conclusion, which many people were hoping for/expecting.

Some people might have been hoping for an epic ending, but that certainly wasn't my concern, and it isn't what I'm usually seeing in complaints about the ending.

Were you not expecting DLC going in to the game? It just seems premature to me for people to complain about plot holes when they know that Bioware has yet to deliver all the content. Now if you want to argue that it's wrong to hold off content then make people buy it via add-ons, then that's a different argument.

These were plot holes introduced in the ending that made the ending make less sense. If they did that deliberately (not a mistake) in order to try to get people to pay more to see the proper ending, I think it was a bad idea, unless they are trying to lose customer loyalty.

This was more a musing in respects to my comments above about how some people seem to have been expecting the conclusion to be one of the greatest stories ever told. Which, to me, is an odd thing to expect since, to me, it hasn't been that remarkable of a story to begin with. Great implementation of character choice and consequence? Definitely. Story? It's passable.

Again, I think this misses what most of the complaints are about. How the complaints are being portrayed by some gaming sites and Bioware (which doesn't benefit by portraying the complaints accurately) can be quite different from what most people are actually saying.

[Moose]

I have exactly one question about Mass Effect 3. Am I on the clock? Do I have to be selective about the high-priority interventions currently piling up?

/ Minimal spoilers please, and if there's risk of spoiling for others, answer(s) via PM would be appreciated.
// I'll say this: the game is really selling the urgency for me.

[Fazor]

Does the survey include games bought online if physical form, such as through Amazon, or is it strictly limited to retail stores?

Sorry, I didn't consider that option. Yeah, that would fit as long as it's not some special discount site or something.

[HenrikOlsen]

Are the "I buy less that 1 retail game a year" segment interesting at all for the survey?
Since Diablo 2 I've only bought one (5 really, it was a boxed set) game with any physical manifestation.

And for that matter, how about games that are available in both physical and downloadable form?
E.g. does Skyrim count as retail if bought in a store but not when bought on Steam?

[Fazor]

Are the "I buy less that 1 retail game a year" segment interesting at all for the survey?
Since Diablo 2 I've only bought one (5 really, it was a boxed set) game with any physical manifestation.

And for that matter, how about games that are available in both physical and downloadable form?
E.g. does Skyrim count as retail if bought in a store but not when bought on Steam?

Really what I'm looking at is purchasing between used and new, and how price pays a role in that decision. Digitial kinda throws that off a bit because it adds the "I don't have to leave my house to get it" factor. The "what are your thoughts on $60 game pricing" Q could still apply though.

[Moose]

Really what I'm looking at is purchasing between used and new, and how price pays a role in that decision. Digitial kinda throws that off a bit because it adds the "I don't have to leave my house to get it" factor. The "what are your thoughts on $60 game pricing" Q could still apply though.

I intend to do your survey, Fazor, but I need to think a little bit about how to answer your questions.

There's a dimension to my buying decisions that they won't reveal. Right now, who the publisher is matters a bit more to me than the price difference. I'm not a fan of what Gamespot is doing to the publishers, but I'm less of a fan of what the publishers are doing to the fans in retaliation (yes, retaliation) for Gamespot. Price is actually the third place criteria (first being availability).

My buying logic varies dramatically according to the circumstances. And I see some evidence that a significant minority of gamers are buying strategically these days.

[Van Rijn]

I have exactly one question about Mass Effect 3. Am I on the clock?

Not as far as I could see, no.

[Van Rijn]

There's a dimension to my buying decisions that they won't reveal. Right now, who the publisher is matters a bit more to me than the price difference. I'm not a fan of what Gamespot is doing to the publishers, but I'm less of a fan of what the publishers are doing to the fans in retaliation (yes, retaliation) for Gamespot.

Could you explain that? I'm not very familiar with Gamespot, or issues about it.

[Fazor]

I believe he means "Game Stop", which is a major video game reseller. They sell games new too, but what they really push is the trade-in, used-game market. I give them my old game and they give me $5-20 for it. Then they turn around and re-sell it for sometimes as much as $50, just slightly under the price of the game new.

The difference? When I buy a "new" game from them, they get a very tiny profit (probably only $5/game). The publisher (and in theory, developer) get the rest. If I buy a used game for even $30 instead, they get all $30, and the publisher/developer get nothing.

So publishers HATE the used market. They feel they're being cheated out of sales and that they shouldn't be allowed to sell used games. Or, that if a game is sold used, that they should be entitled to a cut. As retaliation, publishers have started including one-time use codes that come with games so that some or all of the game's features have to be activated online. Therefore, if I buy the game used and the code has already been redeemed, then I'll not have access to those features unless I pay $10-$20 to purchase my own code.

This "solution" ensures they get a cut of used sales, but anyone who has multiple consoles or multiple profiles will only be able to play a game they legitimately buy on one system, and be locked out of the others unless they pay even more to get multiple codes.

[Moose]

Could you explain that? I'm not very familiar with Game Stop, or issues about it.

The publishers are in a major snit (with some justification) with Game Stop's used games business model. Basically, used games are Game Stop's primary business. They "buy" them (for in-store credit) for a pittance ($25 for something recent and selling, $5 for something not ancient) and sell those copies for $5 less than they ask for a new copy. The publishers don't get a cut of this.

The publishers have been doing various things to recoup what they see as their losses. DLC, online authentication, EA's "Project Ten Dollars" (basically, withholding content to be released free, but once per copy, or else for ten dollars), other strategies with varying degrees of success and antagonism of the consumers.

In fact, Steam's entire raison-d'être is to build around Game Stop. As is EA's Origin.

I do frequent Game Stop (usually branded as EBGames in Canada). Typically, for recent titles (where the difference in price is typically $5), I prefer new on two grounds. I object to the excessive margins Game Stop gets on used titles. I want the publishers and developers to get paid.

... Unless the publisher is behaving antagonistically towards the consumer in the desire to stick it to Game Stop. In those cases, I'll typically wait for the collector's edition to come out, or for it to go on sale, or buy the collector's edition on sale or used, or skip the game outright.

With the mutually-destructive antagonism between gamers, Game Stop, and the publishers, developers are starting to realize that publishers and retailers aren't really all that mandatory anymore. Tim Schafer's Double Fine recently asked for $300,000 in crowd-sourced funding on Kickstarter to develop a niche adventure game. Fans donated $3.3 million. InXile's Wasteland 2 (basically the sequel to the Fallout series' predecessor) is also looking to wind up fully funded.

[Moose]

I believe he means "Game Stop", which is a major video game reseller.

Doh. Yes, that's who I mean. GameStop (or EBGames in Canada). Gamespot is a real company too, but they do game reviews. Not who I mean.

[Moose]

Not as far as I could see, no.

Thanks. That's good to know.

[TJMac]

I can tell you what I'm not playing. Of course, the reason I can tell you is that I didn't have to sign the NDA about playing it. HA!

Even tho I had realistic expectations of being included in the Guild Wars 2 beta testing, I also had tiny hopes that I would be. NOT!

Ah well, I'll get in after the April 10 Pre-purchase date. That's part of the bonus for pre-purchasing.

TJ

[Van Rijn]

... Unless the publisher is behaving antagonistically towards the consumer in the desire to stick it to Game Stop. In those cases, I'll typically wait for the collector's edition to come out, or for it to go on sale, or buy the collector's edition on sale or used, or skip the game outright.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't buy many games these days and I haven't tried to buy a used game, but there definitely are games that I considered then decided not to buy after I found out about their ridiculous authorization procedure. The copy protection nonsense is getting worse. I remember this going all the way back to the Apple II days, when both games and business software was heavily copy protected and came on floppy disks. Almost nobody had a hard drive, so you'd just use the floppy disk the software had come on. Even with business software, there often was a rule that if the disk went bad you had to send it to the company with some fee (usually a fair bit more than the cost of a floppy), and wait a few weeks for a replacement. This didn't work well if you needed the software to do your job. That led to copy software and an ongoing escalating battle between the software companies and the copy crackers. The thing was, everyone, including legitimate business users, were buying the copy cracking software so they could ensure they would have working copies of their software.

Anyway, the copy protection war continued on with the IBM PC with things getting ever more ridiculous, but I remember when a number of large companies said they no longer were going to buy the Lotus 123 spreadsheet or other software that was copy protected because it was just too much hassle. The software was becoming too fragile for legitimate users and pirates found ways to get around the protection anyway, so it didn't do much good and it mostly just hurt legitimate users. I remember being very happy when almost everyone, including game companies, gave up on copy protection. Software companies grew by leaps and bounds, so I thought the lesson was learned that copy protection wasn't a good idea.

Of course, copy protection started coming back with the start of the cd-rom era, and it's been getting worse ever since. I have the suspicion that we're getting close to the limits of what people will tolerate again, and it will force market changes. I like seeing things like that Double Fine kickstarter. Maybe that's the direction things will go.

[captain swoop]

Just finished Crysis. Not played it before.

QUite good up until the last part after escaping from the Alien Base.
Hate the flying. IF I wanted a Flight SIm I would have got one.
It's a great first person shooter up until then in a 'Far Cry' setting

Not very long though.

[Van Rijn]

I especially liked the flying part. Of course, Descent is one of my all time favorite games, so I like that. Freefall in corridors is different from regular flight-sim games. I haven't found one of those I've really liked since the Wing Commander games in the '90s.