Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 160

Thread: The Cleveland (sports) Syndrome

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952

    The Cleveland (sports) Syndrome

    The Cleveland Sports Syndrome (Popularly 'CS^2' in medical circles) has long plagued Ohio. Each year we hope and pray for a cure. Symptoms occasionally seem to diminish. But before we can declare ourselves CS^2 free, the illness strikes again.

    I'm of course talking about the Browns and the Indian's persistent tendency to 'clean house' in exchange for promising new players, only to trade those players once they start to develop for washed-up old players in the belief that said players aren't on the decline, and that the Cleveland sports environment will spark a miraculous comeback.

    Yes, more specifically I'm talking about the cutting of Browns QB's Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn, in exchange for an 8-year backup that few of us on the east coast have ever heard of, and a starting QB coming off his worst year ever, whose best year was in 2003--seven years ago.

    I'm not a die-hard Anderson and Quinn fan by any means, so this is not a bitter response to losing any particularly liked player. And the QB dynamic in Cleveland certainly needed to change. I just don't see how this is a good solution.

    To me, it looks like the same kind of hiring advice that brought coach Romeo Crennel to the club in 2005. We saw how that worked out. Really, it's the same thing that brought Mangini as his replacement. So far, that's not worked out either (I'm surprised they kept him, but I'm glad they did. One year isn't enough to get the measure of a coach; particularly since he's playing guys he didn't chose for the team).

    Again, the Browns share this affliction with their baseball-brothers, the Cleveland Indians. After coming so close in 2007, we saw major changes to the club, particularly the pitching staff. Now I understand having to work with salary and budget. But hearing 2010 pre-season chatter about how the Indians have a "decent" line-up on offense, but have absolutely no pitching and thus will likely suffer through at least another sad year is a hard thing to swallow when at the end of 2007, we had arguably two of the top 3 pitchers in the American league, backed by a handful of only slightly less great pitchers. By the end of last year, we had nothing.

    Also note how we let go Casey Blake and Ryan Garko; not exceptional players by any measure, but both experienced and dependable. Worse still was the release of Victor Martinez behind the plate; recently hailed by ESPN as one of the top three catchers of the decade (for his all-around abilities both offense and defense), at a position that is extremely difficult to find such players as the need far outweighs the availability of talent (silver lining is that one of their recent minor league pickups is prospected to become another such player, eventually. They'll likely trade him off before then though, since that's a side-effect of the CS^2 disease).

    Anyway, I know we have a few Cleveland sports fans around here. Interested on their take on this whole thing. Also interested in any non-Cleveland sports fans who experience similar things in their favorite sport clubs. Does 'young player farming' really ever pay off, particularly when you cycle through it every five years or so?

    As for Cleveland; the complete lack of any kind of championship, the rarity of championship appearances, and even the yearly struggle (and mostly failure) to even reach post-season play sort of speaks for itself.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    I'm trying very hard to not care (my personal cure) and so far, its working pretty well.

    I don't claim any special knowledge about football. I'm not sorry to see either Anderson or Quinn go. Mike Holmgren (the new head of football operations for the Browns), based on past history, would seem to know something about football, and I'm willing to let him do his thing and see what happens. I have fairly low expectations for next year and am willing to give him a year or two to put his system and players in, and see what happens. I suspect the two recently acquired quarterbacks are only a interim step in the process.

    But hearing 2010 pre-season chatter about how the Indians have a "decent" line-up...
    Really? Who said that? I do know a little more about baseball and I fully expect the 2010 Indians to be horrible. There is a chance they will be improved from last season (no where to go but up), if Acta (the new coach) can make some things happen, Westbrook is healthy, and Fausto can figure out how to pitch again, but if they ended the season at 0.500, it would be close to a miracle.

    Go CAVS!
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    The Great NorthWet
    Posts
    5,115
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    I'm of course talking about the Browns and the Indian's persistent tendency to 'clean house' in exchange for promising new players, only to trade those players once they start to develop for washed-up old players in the belief that said players aren't on the decline, and that the Cleveland sports environment will spark a miraculous comeback.
    You've just described the Seattle Mariners in a nutshell.

    Go CAVS!
    Go Sonics! Oh wait, they did....
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Really? Who said that? I do know a little more about baseball and I fully expect the 2010 Indians to be horrible. There is a chance they will be improved from last season (no where to go but up), if Acta (the new coach) can make some things happen, Westbrook is healthy, and Fausto can figure out how to pitch again, but if they ended the season at 0.500, it would be close to a miracle.
    I agree, but should mention that the exact sentiment was "If the players play to their full potential, they line-up should be okay."

    That's a huge if, considering that as far as I'm aware, the line-up is largely (or wholly?) unchanged from last year, and it was horrible last year.

    Grady had an off year, that was still an okay year. I expect him to recover from that. They mentioned that Kronk (Haffner) would have to hit again like he did in 2007. I watched him play all last season, and saw him two or three times while he was in Columbus recovering from his injury. He just doesn't even seem to be trying anymore. I don't expect any miracle return to greatness for him.

    Martinez was their other potent bat, and as mentioned, he's gone. Everyone else has streaks of greatness, but even longer streaks of sub-par at bats. Unless the league has made the ball larger and limited pitching speed this year, I don't see a whole lot changing. And the Indians are more than welcome to come out and prove me wrong.

    So yeah, go Cavs! (It's just a shame that I can't stand the NBA. I'm still pulling for a Cleveland team to bring home some kind of championship though!_

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,201
    Go Red Sox!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by kleindoofy View Post
    Go Red Sox!
    In the summer of 2008 I was driving through Mass, near enough Boston, on my way to Maine. The toll booth operator saw my shirt and said, "Uh oh, you're in Red Sox territory. That's not a Yankees shirt, is it?" It wasn't; but it was their colors and had a logo where a sport's team's logo would go.

    I said, "Heck no! It's worse even; I'm an Indian's fan and I'm still [mad] about what you did to us last year."

    He just laughed as I drove off. *sniffle*

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    Since I was born and raised in New York City (but have lived in Cleveland for over 20 years), I am sometimes asked if I am a Yankees fan. I tell fellow Clevelanders I hate the Yankees as much as you do, I was always a Mets fan. I am then usually asked, who would I root for if the Mets played the Indians in the World Series.....

    I put that on my list of worries right between Unicorn Attacks and Liechtenstein Invading.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Since I was born and raised in New York City (but have lived in Cleveland for over 20 years), I am sometimes asked if I am a Yankees fan. I tell fellow Clevelanders I hate the Yankees as much as you do, I was always a Mets fan. I am then usually asked, who would I root for if the Mets played the Indians in the World Series.....

    I put that on my list of worries right between Unicorn Attacks and Liechtenstein Invading.
    Haha! I always thought I'd be a Mets fan if I had to pick a NY team (all sports) to be a fan of. Cubs, if same was said of Chicago.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I suspect the two recently acquired quarterbacks are only a interim step in the process.
    I forgot that part of the problem. I'm fine with a "Bandaid" solution to the problem (even if it's more of a sutures situation). The thing that I really didn't like to hear was the Browns' expressed interested in Sam Bradford, with the possibility of trading some of there numerous draft picks to move up enough to nab him.

    First off, he's already been set back by injuries. Not fair to count him out because of it, but I'd think that should send up a red flag when it comes to risking so much to make him a first-of-first round pick and hinge your clubs future on him being the long term QB.

    Secondly, we already have tried to draft low round QBs. Brady Quinn? You just cut him. Charlie Fry? Cut him too. Tim Couch? Yep, cut.

    . . . oh well, at least they didn't express interest in Tebow.

    I'd say use your temporary fix this year, and maybe next. The problem is there's no real must-have QB in the draft, and no real tempting QBs in free agency either. Slim pickin's this year, and on a year where a lot of teams are looking for new franchise QBs.

    I'll have to trust Holmgren, but mostly because we have no choice. I do think he'll be good for the Browns. I'm just sick of the Cleveland sports motto: "Maybe next year." Particularly since it's a chant that usually starts months before the coming season!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,014
    While we're on the subject of CS^2, I hate seeing a letter that occurs twice represented as S^2. There's nothing "squared" about it; it isn't even S times S. It's just an S and another S. You guys should be scientific types, go back and edit your posts to just CSS!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    13,886
    It's the Curse of Rocky Colavito, I tell you.

    Cleveland, God bless its aging bones, missed the train fifty years ago, and still can't figure out why it's so lonely on the platform.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by MAPNUT View Post
    While we're on the subject of CS^2, I hate seeing a letter that occurs twice represented as S^2. There's nothing "squared" about it; it isn't even S times S. It's just an S and another S. You guys should be scientific types, go back and edit your posts to just CSS!
    Yeah, but CSS is already in use. I didn't want to associate a mental illness prominent in Cleveland sports management with web design.

    I'll agree to rename it to Perbs - Persistent 'Rebuilding' Syndrome. No mathematical notation required.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    One other Indians thought....

    In many sports, there is often a debate as to how much of a team's performance is the players, and how much is the coaching. Well, the 2010 Indians will be a pretty good test of that. We have basically the same players as last year, but a completely new coaching staff. If nothing else, it will be a good data point.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,014
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    I'll agree to rename it to Perbs - Persistent 'Rebuilding' Syndrome. No mathematical notation required.
    That's good. Although they can't call it "rebuilding" unless they actually had something built at one point that they want to rebuild.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by MAPNUT View Post
    That's good. Although they can't call it "rebuilding" unless they actually had something built at one point that they want to rebuild.
    Hmm. That's sound logic. But the problem is 'logic' has no place in the discussion of Cleveland and their sports. (They use the term 'rebuilding' at least twice a year, between the Browns and the Indians.)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    13,886
    Have they ever thought of just switching the players between the Browns and Indians? I don't really see how it could be worse, and the idea of a 350 lb catcher might give anyone thinking of stealing home a pause.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by mike alexander View Post
    Have they ever thought of just switching the players between the Browns and Indians? I don't really see how it could be worse, and the idea of a 350 lb catcher might give anyone thinking of stealing home a pause.
    I've wondered that myself. Though I wouldn't look forward to the debate over who should be the starter and closer (Quinn? Anderson? Cribbs?)

    The real solution is to just recruit LeBron to all three teams. He's such an athlete that he just may be able to single-handedly turn that whole city around.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    The real solution is to just recruit LeBron to all three teams. He's such an athlete that he just may be able to single-handedly turn that whole city around.
    He did play football in high school, not a bad idea.

    I think you could trade the Indians' players with the St. Edwards Girls Field Hockey team and have an improvement (for the Indians, not for St. Eds).
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Hmm. I should have probably watched a pre-season game before I said they have the same lineup. I dont know most of these guys. Their bats look good in the preseason, but that's against preseason pitching.

    I'm not holding my breath. I am looking forward to the Clippers' season (Tripple-A ball) so that we have games to go to. Went to a half dozen games or so last year. Want to go to more than that this year.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    Hmm. I should have probably watched a pre-season game before I said they have the same lineup. I dont know most of these guys. Their bats look good in the preseason, but that's against preseason pitching.
    Don't jump to conclusions about the line-up that way either. There are a lot of guys in camp getting swings that they know will be in Double-A or Triple-A come the regular season. From all that I've heard, the line-up will be a lot like it was post-Victor's trade.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    That explains it, because that's what I thought I had heard too. But last night they made it sound like these guys were more likely prospects for the main roster.

    I'll have to watch 'em closer (I only watched about an inning and a half); probably end up seeing a handful of them here in Columbus then.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    16,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I think you could trade the Indians' players with the St. Edwards Girls Field Hockey team and have an improvement (for the Indians, not for St. Eds).
    It's hard enough to watch the Indians' players now. Now you're going to put skirts on them?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    It's hard enough to watch the Indians' players now. Now you're going to put skirts on them?
    Now I'm picturing the third base coach on a close play at the bag frantically signaling and shouting "DON'T SLIDE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T SLIDE!!!"

    ETA: Oh man, worse yet, the way the TV cameras like to focus on the already uncomfortable hand signals from the catcher!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    Now I'm picturing the third base coach on a close play at the bag frantically signaling and shouting "DON'T SLIDE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T SLIDE!!!"

    ETA: Oh man, worse yet, the way the TV cameras like to focus on the already uncomfortable hand signals from the catcher!
    I'm sorry, but due to my primitive instincts still hard-wired into my DNA....I have to say this makes the prospect of watching Indians games more intriguing.


    It has to be better than watching all the crotch-grabbing and spitting that goes on now.
    What does God need with a starship?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonicone View Post
    I'm sorry, but due to my primitive instincts still hard-wired into my DNA....I have to say this makes the prospect of watching Indians games more intriguing.


    It has to be better than watching all the crotch-grabbing and spitting that goes on now.
    Yeah, that's more my thinking. Reference any of numerous scenes from A League of Their Own.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    16,599
    I guess it all depends on whether you're thinking:
    (a) The previous St Eds team in Indians uniforms on the ball field, with the previous indians in skirts on the hockey field.
    or
    (b) each team retaining thier own uniform.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    11,952
    Yeah for whatever reason I forgot about the switching of the actual players themselves. Was picturing (or, trying rather hard not to picture) Travis Haffner running around in a skirt.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    35,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
    Yeah for whatever reason I forgot about the switching of the actual players themselves. Was picturing (or, trying rather hard not to picture) Travis Haffner running around in a skirt.
    OK, now I need a brain cleaning.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    13,886
    After watching sports in Cleveland for a long time (I attended my first Indians game in 1957) I can only say that, averaged over time, such spectating prepares one well for life, if life is defined as being hit repeatedly over the head.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    336
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    OK, now I need a brain cleaning.
    I had just engaged in that activity last night while watching TV. I feel another 7% alcohol scrub is in order after his post.
    What does God need with a starship?

Similar Threads

  1. Mt. Cleveland (Alaska) Activity
    By dgavin in forum Geology & Planetary Surfaces
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 2013-May-10, 07:42 PM
  2. TMFT Syndrome.
    By Fazor in forum Off-Topic Babbling
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2009-Dec-19, 02:32 AM
  3. Peter Pan Syndrome
    By RalofTyr in forum Off-Topic Babbling
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 2007-Sep-03, 02:12 AM
  4. ATTN: Cleveland Area BAUTers!
    By Andromeda321 in forum Astronomy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2005-Oct-19, 05:57 PM
  5. Spaceheimers Syndrome
    By setiman in forum Space Exploration
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2004-May-25, 01:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •