Using the Drake Equation for Love?

[closetgeek]

Man Uses Math To Explain Girlfriend Woes (http://www.foxcharlotte.com/dpps/news/dpgo-Peter-Backus-uses-math-to-explain-girlfriend-woes-fc-20100112_5537488)
A man studying in London has taken a mathematical equation that predicts the possibility of alien life in the universe to explain why he can't find a girlfriend.

This article has had me thinking all morning. I think what he did was funny and he is an attractive man. I just think his difficulty in finding a girlfriend is probably his own doing. The end of the article states that he did eventually find someone who meets his criteria so for that :clap:. How does that actually work, though? Did anyone here use the criteria method? Is it like bringing a checklist to the first date?

[Argos]

I think I saw this on the 'Big Bang Theory' show. :)

Cool though.

[Grey]

Last Valentine's Day, This American Life had an episode (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1283) on love which opened discussing two physics grad students that had done the same thing. I particularly recall they mentioned that they ran through the numbers for one of their professors who had so many criteria (the trickiest was that she definitely wanted to find someone at least as smart as she was, and since she was brilliant, that seriously limited the field), that they determined that it was highly unlikely that there would be even one person who would meet all of those requirements.

[jokergirl]

Obligatory. (http://roshandaniel.nomadlife.org/uploaded_images/useless-710732.jpg)

;)

[closetgeek]

Last Valentine's Day, This American Life had an episode (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1283) on love which opened discussing two physics grad students that had done the same thing. I particularly recall they mentioned that they ran through the numbers for one of their professors who had so many criteria (the trickiest was that she definitely wanted to find someone at least as smart as she was, and since she was brilliant, that seriously limited the field), that they determined that it was highly unlikely that there would be even one person who would meet all of those requirements.

My bold
Since I am not the brightest bulb in the box, that's not too difficult of a standard to reach. :think: I don't know, though, for me, we either click or we don't. There are only two guys in my dating history that weren't friends first and my attraction was purely based on looks. In both cases, the situation didn't last more than a few days. There are types that I find myself attracted to, the common thread between all of them (except the two mentioned) is relatively high intelligence. That, however, is how it seems to end up. It's not like I give them an IQ test on our first date.

Does anyone here have a criteria that potentials must meet?

[SolusLupus]

I think that a lot of people really don't get that a relationship is about a compromise. If you're looking for "the perfect one", then you'll probably be fed up with them shortly, because no one is truly perfect.

[Fazor]

I agree with Geek and Lupus; There's certianly qualities that I find attractive, physically and personality...ly. But I've never said "I need someone that's this, this, this, and this!"

In fact, all the people I've dated have had very different personalities, and we've gotten along well enough with all of them. Tara holds the record though, since it's been five years and she can still put up with me. She must not be picky either. ;)

[closetgeek]

Lol, yeah, my only criteria is: Must have low standards :)

[NEOWatcher]

I insist that this is not "the Drake Equation". It is at best, an adaptation of the process. But; it has nothing to do with the variables that Drake came up with.

Drake's equation is important, not because of the "math" or the "equation", but for the care he used to define distinct factors to come up with the variables to predict alien life.

And; how does this apply to an economics degree?

And looking at the variables, I don't see how they apply.

The rate of formation of people in the UK (i.e. population growth).
Not necessary when he's already limiting age appropriateness.

The fraction of women in the UK who live in London.
I can see this as being close, but why "in" London when he wants nearby. Is the city limit automatically "far"?

Besides, none of those factors have anything to do with what the woman wants.
He can probably find thousands that fit his formula, but in the end, if they aren't looking for someone like him, he's still out of luck.
I think it's quite self-centered of him.

[Fazor]

Neo, your font got smaller as you typed. Are you walking away from us while typing? (Rude) Or was your keyboard just running out of ink? :lol:

Anyway, yeah. I thought of that too. I could probably come up with an "ideal mate" list, but to be honest, anyone meeting those criteria surely wouldn't also chose me as their match. :)

(Oh, in case Tara reads this, I meant to say, "I've already found my ideal mate". ;)).

[closetgeek]

I didn't think the equation was anything to be taken seriously. I thought he was poking fun at his current situation.


Of course this does not take into account the fraction of these women that will find me attractive (depressingly low)...

And he does take into account the fact that they may not like him. So does the fact that he found someone bring the probability to 1?

[NEOWatcher]

Neo, your font got smaller as you typed...
Interesting... It looked fine to me, but I did find a FONT tag in there that I got rid of. Look ok now?


I could probably come up with an "ideal mate" list[...]
(Oh, in case Tara reads this...
In other words, you could come up with an ideal mate list. But it will always consist of one consistant name.

[NEOWatcher]

I didn't think the equation was anything to be taken seriously. I thought he was poking fun at his current situation.
You're probably right, but the story does not elude to that. It does throw in bits about "his paper" and on the "University web site" not mentioning anything about the criteria needed to post it there.



And he does take into account the fact that they may not like him.
He does, but the equation doesn't. (the paper is linked in the story).

[Fazor]

Interesting... It looked fine to me, but I did find a FONT tag in there that I got rid of. Look ok now?
Yes, but I still like the "keyboard out of ink" theory. :)

[Argos]

I insist that this is not "the Drake Equation". It is at best, an adaptation of the process. But; it has nothing to do with the variables that Drake came up with.

Drake's equation is important, not because of the "math" or the "equation", but for the care he used to define distinct factors to come up with the variables to predict alien life.


I disagree. 'Drake´s Equation' formalism can be adapted to organize any kind of ignorance.

[Larry Jacks]

I particularly recall they mentioned that they ran through the numbers for one of their professors who had so many criteria (the trickiest was that she definitely wanted to find someone at least as smart as she was, and since she was brilliant, that seriously limited the field), that they determined that it was highly unlikely that there would be even one person who would meet all of those requirements.

The more criteria you have, the more variables in your equation. Since the maximum value of any of the variables is 1.0, the pickier you are, the lower your probability of finding someone to meet your criteria. You have to factor in something else as well - the other person has to find you attractive as well. They might well be turned off by your pickiness, for example. Personally, I find the notion of "soul mates" or "the one" (out of 6 billion) as the delusions of romance novels.

[NEOWatcher]

I disagree. 'Drake´s Equation' formalism can be adapted to organize any kind of ignorance.
Ok; let's disagree. Because I feel "the Drake Equation" was famous for the development of it's factors, not it's formalism.

[Argos]

From an abstract point of view, the number of suitable planets in the galaxy and the number of suitable girls in New York are essentially the same thing.

[NEOWatcher]

Since the maximum value of any of the variables is 1.0, the pickier you are, the lower your probability of finding someone to meet your criteria.
Careful with that statement. Variables are not necessarily fractions (such as the number of inhabitable planets per star, or lifetime of a civilization, or in this case, the length of time being alive to make an encounter with a girl possible)



You have to factor in something else as well - the other person has to find you attractive as well.
Actually; thinking further about that... If the result is fractional (as in the number of girls available to me with that criteria per number of girls total) then you might be able to assume thier formulas are similar, and just square the result.

[NEOWatcher]

From an abstract point of view, the number of suitable planets in the galaxy and the number of suitable girls in New York are essentially the same thing.
Well; you can pull in a lot of things as abstract depending on how far you want to stretch it.
But; my reasoning is that to be THE Drake equation, it must be using his factors. I have no heartburn if they would have used "drake-like" or "in the style of". My beef is with "the".

[closetgeek]

Gotcha. I'm still hung up on the criteria factor :)

[Grey]

Gotcha. I'm still hung up on the criteria factor :)I keep thinking of Benedick's lines from Much Ado About Nothing:


One woman is fair, yet I am well; another is wise, yet I am
well; another virtuous, yet I am well; but till all
graces be in one woman, one woman shall not come in
my grace. Rich she shall be, that's certain; wise,
or I'll none; virtuous, or I'll never cheapen her;
fair, or I'll never look on her; mild, or come not
near me; noble, or not I for an angel; of good
discourse, an excellent musician, and her hair shall
be... of what colour it please God.

I would certainly agree that while it's a good idea to have standards, a long checklist of specific required traits is probably a bit much. :) I did actually date someone for quite a while who pretty much had a mental checklist, even if she hadn't written it out. I think I met most of the important criteria on the list, but I'll confess that at some point, it began to feel like she wasn't so much involved with me as with a role that I could fill in her life, and that someone else could fill that role just as easily. At least it wasn't as bad as the young woman I knew who had an "everything but the groom" file, with her wedding all planned out except for the tiny detail of who she was going to marry.

In truth, reading the paper again, most of his "criteria" aren't that specific. For example, he's aiming for a specific age range, but most people do that to some extent. He'd like someone that lives fairly close to him, but again, for most people, that comes naturally because you meet more people from nearby than from faraway (unless you're seeking romance online, I suppose). He throws in a factor for "women that he's attracted to", but he doesn't try to quantify that with specific height or weight ranges that are acceptable or anything. So his "checklist", such as it is, doesn't really seem particularly restrictive.

[closetgeek]

Must be university educated. That's a bit restrictive. So a really wonderful girl with a good head on her shoulders who happened to go to trade school because it made more sense. There is absolutely no way any non-university educated person could possibly wrap their head around economics. He is being an elitist...and for the record, yes, I have dated men shorter than I.

[Tobin Dax]

Obligatory. (http://roshandaniel.nomadlife.org/uploaded_images/useless-710732.jpg)

;)

Properly cited (http://xkcd.com/55/).

[jokergirl]

Thanks, the proper xkcd site was blocked for me at work so I had to make do with Google image search!

;)

[SolusLupus]

and for the record, yes, I have dated men shorter than I.

Is it wrong that I sort of envy them? I kind of like the size difference to go that way, but I'm 6'0", so it's hard. :p

[Larry Jacks]

Originally Posted by Larry Jacks
Since the maximum value of any of the variables is 1.0, the pickier you are, the lower your probability of finding someone to meet your criteria.

Careful with that statement. Variables are not necessarily fractions (such as the number of inhabitable planets per star, or lifetime of a civilization, or in this case, the length of time being alive to make an encounter with a girl possible)

Yeah, you're right. Still, the pickier someone is, the less likely they are to find someone who meets all of their excectations. And what happens if that person is turned off by people with lists of acceptable criteria (I certainly am)? You could end up being attracted to the "perfect person" who doesn't like you in return.