Recycling Lithium Batteries

[Tuckerfan]

I was reading this article (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/09/lithium-battery-recycling-facility-suffers-explosions-fire/) on a rather nasty fire at a lithium battery recycling facility in Canada, when a particular tidbit caught my eye:
Lithium batteries from across the US and Canada, mostly from phones and laptops, are stored at the site in earth-covered bunkers chilled to -324 degrees.(bolding mine)
Now, I know it gets cold in Canada, but it doesn't get that cold. How much energy do you suppose it takes to keep those things at such temps? What do you suppose its going to be like when most of the cars on the road are hybrids or electrics?

[Ronald Brak]

I doubt that old lithium batteries would be stored at negative 324 degrees as that would is below absolute zero. I imagine it's a typo or other mistake.


What do you suppose its going to be like when most of the cars on the road are hybrids or electrics?

I imagine the incidence of fires would be much reduced as plug in hybrids and electric cars will greatly reduce the amount of highly flammable liquid that would need to be refined, transported, purchased and placed inside vehicles. I also imagine that car batteries would be recycled rather than stored in pits.

I did think that second hand EV batteries could have an economic role to play in grid energy storage, but it seems they would probably be unable to compete on price with a dedicated flow battery designed for the grid in developed countries. In countries with lower labour costs, the situation might be different.

Currently lithium costs about 3.3 times as much as aluminium.

[Tuckerfan]

I doubt that old lithium batteries would be stored at negative 324 degrees as that would is below absolute zero. I imagine it's a typo or other mistake. It depends upon which temperature scale you're using. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero)
By international agreement, absolute zero is defined as precisely 0 K on the Kelvin scale, which is a thermodynamic (absolute) temperature scale, and −273.15° on the Celsius scale.[1] Absolute zero is also precisely equivalent to 0 R on the Rankine scale (same as Kelvin but measured in Fahrenheit intervals), and −459.67° on the Fahrenheit scale. Given that the publication is an American one, the temp being measured in Fahrenheit is not impossible.

I imagine the incidence of fires would be much reduced as plug in hybrids and electric cars will greatly reduce the amount of highly flammable liquid that would need to be refined, transported, purchased and placed inside vehicles.This has nothing to do with what I was talking about in the OP. I'm wondering what the energy costs are to keep those things so danged cold.
I also imagine that car batteries would be recycled rather than stored in pits. If you'd bothered to read the linked article, you'd realize that the pits were located at a battery recycling facility. No doubt they need to store them for a period of time before they can recycle them.


I did think that second hand EV batteries could have an economic role to play in grid energy storage, but it seems they would probably be unable to compete on price with a dedicated flow battery designed for the grid in developed countries. In countries with lower labour costs, the situation might be different. Assuming they can still hold a charge. Of course, if they can still hold a charge, why wouldn't you keep them in a car?

[sarongsong]

...Lithium batteries...are stored at the site in earth-covered bunkers chilled to -324 degrees...Sounds like the OP link may have strayed a bit:
...The facility inventories incoming lithium battery waste. The waste is then stored in earth covered concrete storage bunkers. Residual electrical energy is removed from larger, more reactive batteries. If necessary the batteries then begin Toxco’s patented cryogenic process and are cooled to -325°F.
Lithium, although normally explosively reactive at room temperature, is rendered relatively inert at this temperature. The batteries are then safely sheared/shredded and the materials are separated...lithium components are separated and converted to lithium carbonate for resale...
toxco.com (http://www.toxco.com/processes.html)

[Tuckerfan]

Which tells us nothing about the energy demands required to cool the batteries down to -325F. Which is what I'm interested in.

[clop]

I rather stupidly threw an old lithium button battery into the wood stove in my kitchen. The resulting BANGING CRACK, ten minutes later, was so sharp and so loud that I thought my windows had broken. My ears rang for several hours afterwards. I can't even begin to imagine a fire in a lithium battery factory.

clop

[sarongsong]

Which tells us nothing...Sure it does; the energy demands would differ greatly from maintaining a constant bunker temp of -325 vs. -325 just while processing the batteries.

[Tuckerfan]

Sure it does; the energy demands would differ greatly from maintaining a constant bunker temp of -325 vs. -325 just while processing the batteries.Yeah, a bunker, being buried in the earth, and thus well insulated, would probably have lower energy demands than a processing line where things are constantly moving in and out of the various stages, and thus bringing a temperature differential with them. http://www.wordforge.net/images/smilies/death.gif

[Ronald Brak]

This has nothing to do with what I was talking about in the OP. I'm wondering what the energy costs are to keep those things so danged cold.

The specific heat of a lithium-ion battery is about 1,000 joules a kilogram. Not sure what sort of efficiency is obtained in refrigeration, I'll assume 75%. There are 3,600,000 joules to a kilowatt-hour which costs about ten cents in the US and probably about the same in Canada. This means it costs about a twelveth of a cent of electricity to cool a kilogram of battery from room temperature to 200 degrees below zero. (Or -324 degrees in freaky farenheit.)

[Tuckerfan]

The specific heat of a lithium-ion battery is about 1,000 joules a kilogram. Not sure what sort of efficiency is obtained in refrigeration, I'll assume 75%. There are 3,600,000 joules to a kilowatt-hour which costs about ten cents in the US and probably about the same in Canada. This means it costs about an eighth of a cent of electricity to cool a kilogram of battery from room temperature to 200 degrees below zero. (Or -324 degrees in freaky farenheit.)
Is that a fully charged battery, or a discharged one (and does it make a difference)? Does that take into account any insulating materials or does that assume a battery has been stripped down to its core components? What's the medium being used to cool the battery and how fast is it being brought to that temp? How long does it take to bring a battery (either fully charged or discharged) from 72F to those temps?

The efficiency question I might be able to answer, given how my brother deals with such things in his line of work.

[Ronald Brak]

Is that a fully charged battery, or a discharged one (and does it make a difference)?
Well, e=mc(c), so it would make a difference, but not a measureable one. But if the battery discharges, it would create heat, although I imagine that at 200 below it would discharge sllllllooooowwwwlllllyyyyy.


Does that take into account any insulating materials or does that assume a battery has been stripped down to its core components?
I think that's for the battery as a whole (1,070 joules a kilogram for one particular battery to be more precise). Note that insulation typically has a low specific heat. It's just ssslllloooowwww to give it up.


How long does it take to bring a battery (either fully charged or discharged) from 72F to those temps?
Now that I really don't know. It would depend on how it's done. A few hours or more maybe. Of course if the refrigeration area is colder than the battery needs to be it will get to the temperature you want sooner. But I guess it's easier to just wait than to try to speed things up and make the temperature drop faster.

[GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter]

I noticed something in the link that saronsong quoted:
...If necessary the batteries then begin Toxco’s patented cryogenic process and are cooled to -325°F

So, I looked up their patent. It's U.S. Patent No. 5,888,463 (http://www.google.com/patents?id=oY0ZAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q=&f=false). Here's the important bit:
Li batteries are collected and delivered to the reclamation site where the batteries are optionally discharged.... The batteries are then submerged in liquid nitrogen to lower their temperature to about -320° F. thereby reducing the reactivity of the Li by 5 to 6 orders of magnitude when compared to its reactivity at room temperature. The mass and configuration of the batteries or battery components determine the time needed to achieve adequate cooling. Thin lithium metal strips cool sufficiently in a matter of minutes while a 2½ pound battery might require two hours. A 570 pound battery must remain submerged for about eight hours and requires a significant amount of the liquid nitrogen to be replenished during such time.

Once the battery and battery components are sufficiently cooled, they are removed from the liquid nitrogen and comminuted. Comminutation is preferably achieved with the use of a shredder or hammer mill... The shredded components are introduced into a reaction tank wherein the Li containing materials are reacted with water....

So that reporter was wrong. They don't keep the storage bunkers at cryogenic temperatures, they just dunk the batteries into liquid nitrogen immediately before feeding them into the shredder. The energy used to cool them only depends on how much liquid nitrogen is needed.