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sarongsong
2004-Feb-01, 11:10 PM
Can this statement be proven or disproven with a conventional astronomy program:
"2012---Earth comes into perfect “precessional” alignment with the center of the Galaxy..."
Thanks.

starnut
2004-Feb-01, 11:19 PM
Is Mayan astronomy considered 'conventional'?

sarongsong
2004-Feb-01, 11:30 PM
Something that runs under Win98 on a PII, please.

majic
2004-Feb-01, 11:35 PM
Can this statement be proven or disproven with a conventional astronomy program:
"2012---Earth comes into perfect “precessional” alignment with the center of the Galaxy..."
Thanks.

I think a finer definition of "aligned" must be stated here before any serious answer can be given. Aligned to what effect ?

This particular solar system we are in is located on the edge of the milky way, in Orions belt. We arent exactly level with the galaxy's equatorial plane - about 20 lightyears "above" it, yet on a galaxy-scale this is pretty insignifcant. Alignment from center is roughly some 27,000 lightyears (which is, If my memory serves me well, 70,000 lightyears in diameter) .

I'm not sure what difference there will be in 12 years on that huge scale - we're not doing "much", galaxy-wise. Things happen on the multi-million year scale there, not specific "one year" things occur really. Anyone feel free to correct me here, obviously.

starnut
2004-Feb-01, 11:38 PM
The Sky might do.Orions 'Where the stars are" is sort of share ware version of Bisques program. It would probably let you run the equinoxes/solstices around if you so desired.

starnut
2004-Feb-02, 01:13 AM
Holy smokes!! :o Now I see what all you guys are on about here.I googled 'galactic alignment' and got a real eye opener! Woo Woo...Woo. I would have never imagined it. The only thing I knew about 2012 was that it marked the end of the Mayan calender. You guys have realy got your work cut out for you!



cheers

Eta C
2004-Feb-02, 02:07 AM
The "end" of the Mayan calandar has been discussed in several threads before. I'll link to them if others don't beat me to it. My understanding is that it isn't the END in the aspect that there's nothing beyond it. It's just the start of a new cycle. Sort of like a car with a 5 digit odometer rolling over to all 0's after 100,000 miles. The car doesn't automatically fall apart at that point (although it sometimes seems that way :) ). Any "alignments" in 2012 are probably in the mind of the person proposing them and will have as little effect on the earth as any of the last three or four have.

My guess is that it's all a conspiracy by businesses that got left with a lot of survivalist equipment inventory after Y2K. They needed something to get the public to buy their junk, and this conveniently arose. Boy, that is easy to do. 8)

sarongsong
2004-Feb-02, 03:42 AM
Thanks, majic, that's a good way of looking at it, and to starnut for the program suggestions. Despite the subject date, it is NOT meant to further discuss a certain calendar here.

Charlie in Dayton
2004-Feb-02, 04:12 AM
First off, what's a 'precessional alignment'? That the procedure the guy at the end of the street is advertising for only $29.99 (pickups and SUV's slightly higher)?

Let's define our terminology. By definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=precession), precession means something moving. If it's going to align with anything, that alignment only lasts for a split instant, then the whatever has moved on. The phrase is a bit oxymoronic to me.

starnut
2004-Feb-02, 07:42 AM
OK sarongsong. I went home and dug out a copy of 'Where the stars are'.
I ran it back and forth around the 21 Dec time frame. The closest ol Sol came was RA 18.3.32.2 hr DEC 23.26.2 deg. Thats not so close to the big vaccum cleaner center. But it is somewhere near Sagittarius anyway. Maybe a more 'industrial strength' program would return better results. And while on the subject of software, I found a copy of 'The Earth centered universe'. The signifigance in that is that it has a LX-200 command set that functions. I used it for checking all the 'frankenstein' cables people were asking me to make.




cheers

sarongsong
2004-Feb-02, 08:12 AM
...let's define our terminology...Charlie
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center?

...dug out a copy of 'Where the stars are'...The closest ol Sol came was RA 18.3.32.2 hr DEC 23.26.2 deg...Maybe a more 'industrial strength' program would return better results...---starnut
Thanks for checking. Have read of differing dates: 1998, 2000 and, of course, 2012.

Archer17
2004-Feb-02, 08:36 AM
http://www.kamakala.com/2012._1.jpg
Is the above, from someplace like this (http://www.kamakala.com/2012.htm) have any relation to what you seek sarongsong? If so, you should be posting this somewhere else. Like 'Against the Mainstream' at least. Woowoo stuff doesn't belong in this forum and you should know that.

starnut
2004-Feb-02, 09:26 AM
Zooks! Have I been had so soon?? I would appreciate not digging through a mountain of stuff for silly reasons. Sarongsong please explain. Are you foolin' around or do you just want to know about free or inexpensive software?


GRRRRR. :evil:

Charlie in Dayton
2004-Feb-02, 09:52 AM
...let's define our terminology...Charlie
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center?


If I read this right (and there's no guarantee of that), are we talking about the Earth's rotational axis pointing directly at The Center Of The Known Universe? (Yeah, that's stretching things a tad, but you get my drift...)

Okay. So it does. So what?

This means something special? We're going to finally see the Age of Aquarius? The Lieder/Hoagland ticket will sweep The First Annual One-World One-Government elections? The Face On Mars speaks, thereby revealing itself as either Ambrose Bierce or J.F. Crater? The water swirls the other way when I flush? What?

majic
2004-Feb-02, 11:25 AM
Zooks! Have I been had so soon?? I would appreciate not digging through a mountain of stuff for silly reasons. Sarongsong please explain. Are you foolin' around or do you just want to know about free or inexpensive software?


GRRRRR. :evil:

Drugs are bad mmmmkay?

[ appearently they ARE bad, I just -re-read the entire thread and missed the word "program" in the topic starters posting - way to go majic... ]

sarongsong
2004-Feb-02, 04:42 PM
Sarongsong please explain---starnut
My original ASTRONOMICAL question (as amended) is pretty clear and was crafted specifically to avoid Archer17's innuendo and list-cop tendencies. I appreciate your and others' efforts to answer it. (My interest lies with Terence McKenna, BTW.) If a conventional computer simulation program is capable of demonstrating the event, then I will obtain it.

Eroica
2004-Feb-02, 05:13 PM
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center?
Have read of differing dates: 1998, 2000 and, of course, 2012.
According to Starry Night, the Winter Solstice crossed the Galactic equator in 1998.

[Edited for stupid spelling mistake]

Archer17
2004-Feb-02, 06:10 PM
..My original ASTRONOMICAL question (as amended) is pretty clear and was crafted specifically to avoid Archer17's innuendo and list-cop tendencies. I appreciate your and others' efforts to answer it. (My interest lies with Terence McKenna, BTW.) If a conventional computer simulation program is capable of demonstrating the event, then I will obtain it.Whose making innuendos? When I saw your "astronomical" questions, namely:
Can this statement be proven or disproven with a conventional astronomy program:
"2012---Earth comes into perfect “precessional” alignment with the center of the Galaxy..." Thanks. and
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center? I just looked it up. It's not like you simply asked for an astronomy program, you elaborated and that's what I responded to. This isn't exactly the first time you've introduced pseudoscience here. BTW Terence McKenna (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-science/terence-mckenna/) doesn't seem to be much of an astronomer although he did seem to share your interest in 2012. From the link (emphasis added):
..The Time Wave was a graph that, in theory, corresponded to the introduction of new ideas and dramatic change throughout history. When the graph dipped, more novelty entered the world. McKenna lined up his graph against human history, and somehow determined that the Zero Point, the Eschaton, was scheduled for Dec. 21, 2012, which also coincidentally happened to be the end of the 10,000 year calendar used by the Mayans.Coincidence?

sarongsong
2004-Feb-02, 07:55 PM
According to Starry Night, the Winter Solstice crossed the Galactic equater in 1998---Eroica
Thanks, Eroica, for answering my question as stated. Will set about getting Starry Night. Case closed.

milli360
2004-Feb-02, 08:43 PM
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center?
Have read of differing dates: 1998, 2000 and, of course, 2012.
According to Starry Night, the Winter Solstice crossed the Galactic equater in 1998.
What did it say about the summe4 solstice? :)

A.DIM
2004-Feb-02, 09:59 PM
I've always understood Precession described as a spinning, wobbling top... as shown in this diagram (http://astrosun2.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses//astro201/earth_precess.htm).

Anyone read Hamlet's Mill?

Oops
2004-Feb-02, 11:25 PM
OK, how about the astronomical alignment of the Precessional Cycle of the Winter Solstice and Galactic Center?
Have read of differing dates: 1998, 2000 and, of course, 2012.
According to Starry Night, the Winter Solstice crossed the Galactic equater in 1998. In layman's terms, what would this mean?

Rift
2004-Feb-03, 12:17 AM
The "end" of the Mayan calandar has been discussed in several threads before. I'll link to them if others don't beat me to it. My understanding is that it isn't the END in the aspect that there's nothing beyond it. It's just the start of a new cycle. Sort of like a car with a 5 digit odometer rolling over to all 0's after 100,000 miles. The car doesn't automatically fall apart at that point (although it sometimes seems that way :) ).

Absolutely correct, and one of my major pet peeves since the mayans are an interest of mine. The mayan calandar doesn't END in 2012, it simply rolls over, much like what happened in 2000 on our calandar. (and remember how traumatic and horrific that was? lol)

Rift
2004-Feb-03, 12:30 AM
McKenna lined up his graph against human history, and somehow determined that the Zero Point, the Eschaton, was scheduled for Dec. 21, 2012, which also coincidentally happened to be the end of the 10,000 year calendar used by the Mayans

Wrong! This may be a nit pick, but one- it's not the end (see my post above) and two- he could have at least used the actual length of the pictun (the mayan unit of time in question). It's 7885 years long, not 10,000.

Here's a nice simple page page on the Mayan Calendar (http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-mayan.html) that explains all the different units they had and how long they were. It is an amazing Calendar.

There are units bigger then the Pictun. Why have units bigger then the Pictun when you thought you were living in the last one???

sarongsong
2004-Feb-03, 03:32 AM
Wrong! This may be a nit pick...Why have units bigger then the Pictun when you thought you were living in the last one?---Rift
A better question might be:
Are you basing your opinion on McKenna's work, or what someone SAYS was his work? :^o
Nice calendar link, thanks.

Eroica
2004-Feb-03, 11:59 AM
According to Starry Night, the Winter Solstice crossed the Galactic equator in 1998.
What did it say about the summer solstice? :)
The Summer Solstice, too, crossed the Galactic Equator in 1998.