PDA

View Full Version : Does the Allais effect detect gravitational waves?



StevenO
2009-Jul-31, 08:12 PM
Is the Allais effect a proof of gravitational waves? Or is it just shielding of the solar wind?

pghnative
2009-Jul-31, 08:39 PM
I believe that the mainstream position is that the Allais effect has not yet been confirmed. Little point in speculating on the cause, when the actual effect hasn't been confirmed.

If the effect is ever confirmed, then the magnitude of the effect could be calculated, at which point it'd make sense to make guesses as to the cause. From perusing wikipedia, it looks like proposed hypotheses range from temperature changes to pressure changes to ground tilting to high altitude winds to new theories of gravity. I'm sure there are other hypotheses as well.

StevenO
2009-Jul-31, 09:49 PM
Well there have been multiple confirmations, a.o. by Saxl & Allen, Latham & Last and at least three by Ieronim Mihaila. But there have also been researchers reporting smaller or even opposite effects. An overview of observations was made by Chris Duif: A review of conventional explanations of anomalous observations during solar eclipses (http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0408/0408023.pdf).

A remarkable thing is that NASA reports extensively about the effect and even sponsored some worldwide experiments to confirm this during the solar eclipse of 1999, as can be found here: Decrypting the Eclipse (http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm). NASA reports in the article that it could take 10 years "before all opinions are settled". That would be around now. So does anybody know about the outcome and the different opinions? NASA speculates that the most likely causes could be "the anisotropy of space, gravitational waves, and solar radiation".

pghnative
2009-Aug-01, 12:43 PM
Well there have been multiple confirmations, a.o.
if you're going down that road, then this thread should probably be moved to ATM

StevenO
2009-Aug-01, 02:57 PM
if you're going down that road, then this thread should probably be moved to ATM

Why does an independent confirmation suddenly make it ATM?? I was just interested in the results of the NASA experiments, not in defending a theory that I don't even know. Because of the multiple observation sites they should have gotten a pretty clear indication whether the effect exists or not. It just strange that nothing has been reported about the results...:silenced:

trinitree88
2009-Aug-01, 04:08 PM
Why does an independent confirmation suddenly make it ATM?? I was just interested in the results of the NASA experiments, not in defending a theory that I don't even know. Because of the multiple observation sites they should have gotten a pretty clear indication whether the effect exists or not. It just strange that nothing has been reported about the results...:silenced:

Steve. Results of slight effects must pass muster over a series of statistical analyses.True scientists will check with others and look for corroboration. The eclipse was too recent for them to start jumping up & down....but if a high degree of confidence exists, they might nudge in to a conference paper. pete

StevenO
2009-Aug-01, 10:29 PM
Steve. Results of slight effects must pass muster over a series of statistical analyses.True scientists will check with others and look for corroboration. The eclipse was too recent for them to start jumping up & down....but if a high degree of confidence exists, they might nudge in to a conference paper. pete
Well, for a starter, a simple confirmation whether the effect is real and maybe location dependent (like the tides) would be a first step and I thought that was the purpose of the 1999 NASA eclipse experiment.

So, my question should be: does anybody know about the results? Then my question would be: if there was a confirmation, could'nt that be a simple detection of gravitational waves?

01101001
2009-Aug-02, 12:22 AM
Then my question would be: if there was a confirmation, could'nt that be a simple detection of gravitational waves?

You're putting the hypothesis cart before the repeatably-confirmed horse.

Or, do you just want someone to say: Sure, it could. It could be a lot of things. If it exists.

StevenO
2009-Aug-02, 08:41 AM
I'll stick to my first question then: what happened to the results of the big NASA experiment to study this effect during the 1999 eclipse? Was it inconclusive? Did nothing happen?

Since we have so many astronomers in the house, somebody sure should know or be able to find something.

slang
2009-Aug-02, 09:13 AM
Why not try to email Chris Duif? His contact info is right there in the PDF, and you can even ask your question in dutch. :)

Jens
2009-Aug-04, 09:50 AM
One interesting experiment would be to place a pendulum on the moon and then watch what happens during a (for us) lunar eclipse (meaning a solar eclipse for the moon). If nothing happened, then it would be a pretty good indication that any effect on the earth has something to do with the atmosphere.