Are Iridium Flares a scam?

[Aquaman]

OK folks

I think I'm being taken for a ride here. I'm starting to think that the Heavens Above web site is designed to fool the easily led (like me) into dragging themselves out of bed at 3am to stumble outside, tripping over the kids toys on the way, to then be attacked by the dog which sets the neighbourhood canine fraternity off, to then stand freezing looking at the spot in the sky where these Iridium flares are predicted to happen.

I've tried about a dozen times now to see a flare with absolutely no success. My wife thinks I'm mad (and maybe she's right!). I've synchronised my watch to the correct time, I'm out there five minutes before and wait for five minutes after the predicted time...still nothing. What am I doing wrong? I've correctly entered my coordinates and everything, and I'm looking in the right direction.

[Alex W.]

Clouds? :D

[Aquaman]

Ahhhh.....no clouds. Sleep in my eyes....maybe :o .

[sts60]

Hmmm.... they're extremely bright, but only last for a few seconds. Pick some that are in the early evening and relatively high in the sky. Point yourself in the right direction a few minutes early, and don't try to look to hard for it - your eye will be drawn to the flare immediately.

If that doesn't work, have somebody stand on a flat rooftop with a bright light. :D

[Diamond]

Yes, you're a lunatic, but you appear to be one of the happy kind. 8)

[Hamlet]

OK folks

I think I'm being taken for a ride here. I'm starting to think that the Heavens Above web site is designed to fool the easily led (like me) into dragging themselves out of bed at 3am to stumble outside, tripping over the kids toys on the way, to then be attacked by the dog which sets the neighbourhood canine fraternity off, to then stand freezing looking at the spot in the sky where these Iridium flares are predicted to happen.

I've tried about a dozen times now to see a flare with absolutely no success. My wife thinks I'm mad (and maybe she's right!). I've synchronised my watch to the correct time, I'm out there five minutes before and wait for five minutes after the predicted time...still nothing. What am I doing wrong? I've correctly entered my coordinates and everything, and I'm looking in the right direction.

Sorry to here about your viewing troubles, but don't give up. I've seen dozens of them and they are worth the effort (although maybe not at 3am :D )

It can be tricky to pick the part of the sky that corresponds to the correct altitude. Your fist on an outstretched arm covers about 10 degrees of sky and you can use this to measure from the horizon to where the flare should be. That should get you into the right section of the sky.

Instead of fixing on one point, try rapidly moving your eyes around the general area. I've nearly missed some because I was focused on too small an area.

The flares are relatively brief so they are easily missed. I had frustration like yours when I first started but eventually I got pretty good at spotting them. Keep pluggin away! Good Luck!

[Amadeus]

I think I'm being taken for a ride here.

Quick! He's on to us! :lol:

[AGN Fuel]

OK folks

I think I'm being taken for a ride here. I'm starting to think that the Heavens Above web site is designed to fool the easily led (like me) into dragging themselves out of bed at 3am to stumble outside, tripping over the kids toys on the way, to then be attacked by the dog which sets the neighbourhood canine fraternity off, to then stand freezing looking at the spot in the sky where these Iridium flares are predicted to happen.

I've tried about a dozen times now to see a flare with absolutely no success.

Keep trying - I have found Heavens-Above to be very reliable in the times it gives and have seen dozens of Iridium Flares from the Central Coast region of NSW. It is worth persevering!

I can think of two possible problems (although they are both unlikely, I admit):

1. A lot of inexperienced skygazers underestimate the angle of elevation in the sky - when told to look at 60 degrees, they will look at 45. (I have no idea of your level of experience, but it is just something to keep in mind).

2. I know that the site has adjusted it's times to Daylight Savings here for NSW, but maybe they are not aware that WA doesn't use daylight saving. I wonder if you might be getting out of bed an hour early! An easy way to check would be to use the site to look for a bright satellite just after sunset this evening - they are easy to spot, visible for a lot longer than the Iridiums and you don't need to unsettle the neighborhood dogs at 3am!

Just my $0.02. :D

[skyglow1]

This first ever iridium flare I saw was by pure chance. I was sleeping and then woke up in the middle of the night, noticing a bright "star" was drifting across the sky through my small window. The "star" brightened radically and then faded off so i near immediately it was an iridium flare. I checked the next day on heavons above and found out that was a mere -1 flare. I missed a -7 flare because of sheer stupidiness and also missed a -8 flare because I woke up too late.

skyglow1

[Sam5]

OK folks

I think I'm being taken for a ride here.

Hey, you got one visible from Perth on Jan 20 at 20:43:23 local time (isn’t that about 8:43 pm? I’m not sure about your “savings time” or whatever), -6 magnitude (bright), at Alt. 13 degrees, Azimuth 192 degrees SSW. Perth is just a little NW of where you are, so you should be able to use the same time, altitude, and direction.

Get yourself a little plastic “compass”, one of those flat things a kid uses in school to draw angles. That will show you the angle off the horizon. 13 degrees is rather low, but you should be able to see it from the beach area or on a little hill. Look South, then look a little SW of South.

[Sam5]

OK folks

Hmm, I just looked up Albany, and that schedule has the time at 22:10:24 on Jan 20th. And it has the altitude off the horizon at 15 degrees and the azimuth at 129 degrees SE.

Hmm, that’s a 1:27 hr time difference, hmm, that must mean two different passes calculated, the early one for Albany and the later one for Perth

Ok, ok, I figure about 250 miles line of sight NW/SE between Perth and Albany. I use a sighting schedule for the International Space station for a city about 150 miles SE of me, so, I think you could see both passes of the Jan 20 sat. If Perth is higher than you, toward the equator, and if the degrees off the horizon is 13 off the SSW horizon, well, you are further down, so you should be able to see it, uhh, unless the angle of the sun is not quite right.

Hmm, I wonder if the guys on that website calculate where the satellite will be, but maybe they can’t calculate the exact flash results. In other words, the satellite might be where it was supposed to be at 3 am but maybe it didn’t turn and flash right at that time.

[AGN Fuel]

Forget my previous suggestion about Daylight Saving time. I just had a look at Albany on Heavens-Above and they have the correct UT. Must be another explanation.

Are you right in Albany, or in the surrounding rural area?

[Sam5]

Forget my previous suggestion about Daylight Saving time. I just had a look at Albany on Heavens-Above and they have the correct UT.

Oh, so that "local time" is actually GMT time.

[Sam5]

Aquaman,

Here is a UTC/GMT to local time converter:

LINK TO TIME SOURCE (http://www.worldtimeserver.com/)

[AGN Fuel]

Forget my previous suggestion about Daylight Saving time. I just had a look at Albany on Heavens-Above and they have the correct UT.

Oh, so that "local time" is actually GMT time.

Albany local time is GMT+8.

[Charlie in Dayton]

OK folks

I think I'm being taken for a ride here. I'm starting to think that the Heavens Above web site is designed to fool the easily led (like me) into dragging themselves out of bed at 3am to stumble outside, tripping over the kids toys on the way, to then be attacked by the dog which sets the neighbourhood canine fraternity off, to then stand freezing looking at the spot in the sky where these Iridium flares are predicted to happen.

I've tried about a dozen times now to see a flare with absolutely no success. My wife thinks I'm mad (and maybe she's right!). I've synchronised my watch to the correct time, I'm out there five minutes before and wait for five minutes after the predicted time...still nothing. What am I doing wrong? I've correctly entered my coordinates and everything, and I'm looking in the right direction.

Fear thee not, o waterlogged one, Heavens Above is for real. The tips you've been given are accurate. Iridium flares are brief enough to fall into the 'don't blink' category. To calculate altitude above the horizon, this is part of the Universal Cheat Sheet that resides in my Astronomy Field Bag:
****************************
Handy tips for measuring angles in the sky

Generally speaking, if we hold our little finger out at arm's length, the distance it blocks out is approximately one degree.

When we hold the thumb up at arm's length from the eye, the distance covered is approximately two degrees.

If we use the first three fingers (index and the next two – Boy Sprout salute-style), the distance covered is approximately five degrees.

If we hold our closed fist at arm's length from our eye, the distance covered is about 10 degrees across the knuckles (about 2.5 degrees from knuckle to knuckle).

The distance between the index finger and the little finger when they are spread wide at arm's length is about fifteen degrees.

The distance between the thumb and the little finger spread wide at arm's length from our eye is about 20 degrees (as is two closed fists side-by-side across the knuckles).

One full moon = ½ degree. Two full moons side-by-side = 1 degree.
******************************
For the heck of it, get the time of a bright satellite or ISS pass from Heavens Above and look for that. It lasts much longer, and the ISS can actually be tracked on its pass with binoculars. It's a thrilling sight -- I've done it myself a couple of times.

Don't give up -- the truth is out there, and it will take your breath away...

[Jobe]

Hey, you got one visible from Perth on Jan 20 at 20:43:23 local time (isn’t that about 8:43 pm? I’m not sure about your “savings time” or whatever), -6 magnitude (bright), at Alt. 13 degrees, Azimuth 192 degrees SSW. Perth is just a little NW of where you are, so you should be able to use the same time, altitude, and direction.


Actually, for some completely unknown reason, we don't have daylight savings.



Get yourself a little plastic “compass”, one of those flat things a kid uses in school to draw angles.

Protractor? :P

[Mainframes]

I find a good trick to locating flares is to look up the altitude and direction and match it to a star map for the correct time and location that you are viewing from (computer based programs are best for this - I use Celestron's TheSky). Thus if a flare will pass through Ursa Major all you have to do is find Ursa Major and you cant miss the flare.

Hope this helps! :)

[SeanF]

Get yourself a little plastic “compass”, one of those flat things a kid uses in school to draw angles.

Protractor? :P

Don't correct Sam5! Words mean what he uses them to mean! ;)

[Sam5]

Protractor? :P

Yes, thanks. I’ve been getting that word wrong since about 1956.

Here is a protractor:


PICTURE OF PROTRACTOR (http://img.infoplease.com/images/tv/printables/0130533688_ALFL0508.gif)

[Aquaman]

Thanks for all that folks. I will persist.

I live just out of Albany with a pretty clear view all around, so I think it is just a matter of me looking in the right place at the right time.

Those angular references will be "handy" Charlie in Dayton.

We don't have daylight saving here. Some people thought it would cause their curtains to fade...HHHmmmmm. :-?

[Postmortem]

I sometimes use my arms to form a sort of impromtu compass, I point one arm out to the horizon and the other striaght up, it may look a little silly but it works form me


I missed a -7 flare because of sheer stupidiness and also missed a -8 flare because I woke up too late.

you think that's bad? I once missed seeing a mag -6 iridium, the space shuttle, and Mir all within the span of about 15 minutes, because it just kind of slipped my mind

[AGN Fuel]

I find a good trick to locating flares is to look up the altitude and direction and match it to a star map for the correct time and location that you are viewing from (computer based programs are best for this - I use Celestron's TheSky). Thus if a flare will pass through Ursa Major all you have to do is find Ursa Major and you cant miss the flare.

Hope this helps! :)

If Aquaman can see a flare in Ursa Major from Albany (-35 latitude), it will be a spectacularly good trick!! :wink:

[Mainframes]

I find a good trick to locating flares is to look up the altitude and direction and match it to a star map for the correct time and location that you are viewing from (computer based programs are best for this - I use Celestron's TheSky). Thus if a flare will pass through Ursa Major all you have to do is find Ursa Major and you cant miss the flare.

Hope this helps! :)

If Aquaman can see a flare in Ursa Major from Albany (-35 latitude), it will be a spectacularly good trick!! :wink:

Yah, yah, yah. Okay nit well and truely picked! you know what I meant though! :)

[Thumper]

You might try finding and entering the exact lat and long of your viewing location (instead of a town name). Flares are much more sensitive to this than say tracking the ISS. I can input one location and get the track of the ISS and it will be accurate enough to give to friends a hundred kilometers away. But input two locations just a few kilos apart and you won't get the same flare schedule.

Good luck they are out there. Though I usually look for the ones around sunset and the early evening. I leave the 3:00am ones for the dog fraternity. :)

[Sam5]

I find a good trick to locating flares is to look up the altitude and direction and match it to a star map for the correct time and location that you are viewing from (computer based programs are best for this - I use Celestron's TheSky). Thus if a flare will pass through Ursa Major all you have to do is find Ursa Major and you cant miss the flare.

Hope this helps! :)

If Aquaman can see a flare in Ursa Major from Albany (-35 latitude), it will be a spectacularly good trick!! :wink:

Haven't you heard of Ursa Major Baja del Sur?

Anyway, I looked at my globe last night and I found that i'm about as far north as Aquaman is south. So I figure it must be summer where he is now, cause it's cold where I am.

[Aquaman]

Hehe - yep, it's summer here. We had a 43 degrees C the other day (dont know what that is in degrees F for all you Americans). Despite that, it always gets cool (read cold) here at night. Maybe because next stop south from me is Antartica.

I wonder what GPS datum the Heavens Above site uses? I'm using WGS84 on my GPS if that means anything to anyone.

[SeanF]

Hehe - yep, it's summer here. We had a 43 degrees C the other day (dont know what that is in degrees F for all you Americans). Despite that, it always gets cool (read cold) here at night. Maybe because next stop south from me is Antartica.

I wonder what GPS datum the Heavens Above site uses? I'm using WGS84 on my GPS if that means anything to anyone.

43ºC is right about 109ºF. Pretty warm! :)

[Sam5]

Hehe - yep, it's summer here. We had a 43 degrees C the other day (dont know what that is in degrees F for all you Americans). Despite that, it always gets cool (read cold) here at night. Maybe because next stop south from me is Antartica.

I wonder what GPS datum the Heavens Above site uses? I'm using WGS84 on my GPS if that means anything to anyone.

Interesting, thanks.

Different parts of our US have different kinds of weather and different temperature extremes. In our Northeast last week, in Boston and New York, it got down to – 20 C.

In San Francisco, it rarely goes below about 4 C in the winter.

I saw some video out of Mexico City a few days ago, that showed a big snow storm in a mountain pass. Mexico is mostly warm most of the time, except in the mountains in winter.

Here is a temperature conversion calculator. (http://www.indiana.edu/~animal/fun/conversions/temperature.html)

[tuffel999]

Missed the beginnig of this thread but on the subject of iridium flares being a scam..........only if you invested in Motorolla.