are "whistleblowers" tooting their own horn?

[a-l-e-x]

Got this in my email inbox-- looks like CT's are working overtime:

Whistleblowers’ evidence of NASA UFO fraud might kill UK hacker case

http://www.examiner.com/x-2024-Denver-UFO-Examiner~y2009m1d15-Whistleblowers-evidence-of-NASA-UFO-fraud-might-kill-UK-hacker-case

[JayUtah]

Yeah, the "whistle-blowers" are the Disclosure Project witnesses, none of whom can substantiate any of their sensational "inside" stories. I would very much love to see some of them on a witness stand under oath questioned by hostile counsel who has had private detectives checking up on their stories.

[LaurelHS]

I recognized Donna Hare's name in that article because I'd seen a thread (http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/2284-donna-teitze-hare.html) on this board about her.

[captain swoop]

It's the same old rubbish,Photographs of 'structures' on the moon, 'missing' Apollo photographs that show UFOs. If his defence are going to call these people I think he needs to change his Barrister.

[LaurelHS]

The article didn't actually say that the defense was going to call these people. From what I've read, they're using a mental health defense instead.

The article said NASA is the agency "attempting to prosecute McKinnon." Technically, isn't it the Department of Justice?

[blueshift]

It doesn't stop with the moon hoax. There are all kinds of charges about cars invented long ago that get 200 mpg which the oil companies have allegedly covered up and, of course, the cure for cancer is with us but covered up by drug companies.

[Sigma_Orionis]

Heh, if a someone had invented such a fuel efficient car OR had invented a cure for ALL cancers. I am pretty sure that no organization in the world, no matter how ruthless and/or efficient would keep that knowledge hidden. There would be simply too much money a stake to keep it a secret. So, as usual the CT'ers got it exactly backwards.

[captain swoop]

You can make a car go 200 miles on a gallon. It doesn't much perform like or have the features of your average SUV though.

[gzhpcu]

You know who the author of the silly article is? Jeff Peckham of the Alien video fame....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=4957753&page=1

who moreover, proposes to set up an "extraterrestrial affairs commission" made up of 18 members appointed by the mayor to ensure public safety in the event that aliens -- or their vehicles, according to the ballot language -- were to arrive in Denver. :lol:

He fantasizes and patches a story up, making it seem as if it were something to seriously consider, because


Credible witnesses have claimed that NASA has altered or destroyed its photos containing images of UFOs. This could become a legal and public relations nightmare for NASA.from the Disclosure project!

[JayUtah]

Yep, we see how desperate some of these people are to remain relevant.

[mugaliens]

You can make a car go 200 miles on a gallon. It doesn't much perform like or have the features of your average SUV though.

But it's not designed to be an SUV replacement.

It's designed to be a commuter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XArAnuK3cW4).

And as an all-electric car, the 300 mpg figure is calculated on an energy-cost equivalent basis, i.e. the cost per mile is the same as if it were a gasoline vehicle that got 300 mpg.

They need to mass-produce this and get it down to the $10,000 range.

That would change the market structure...

On the other hand, if you want longer range (1,000 miles) and more speed (340 mph) in a road-certified machine, try this puppy on for size (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjNa6Gd-kIo&feature=related).

Between the two of them, I think we have seen the real shape of things to come.

And if we do ever run out of oil before we pull our heads out of the sand, well, there's always 80+ mph pedal power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V2FgwN_re4&feature=related)...

[tdvance]

what's the mpg-equivalent of a golf cart? Maybe just allow those on the road :) (but keep them IN THE RIGHT LANE, please--the rest of us have somewhere to go!)

[blueshift]

However, the trouble with claiming vehicles that get great mileage is a coverup is that the oil companies will get richer. More people will drive more often and the more building of new roads and constant repair of old ones will call for more oil that goes into road building and repair.

[a-l-e-x]

Yep, we see how desperate some of these people are to remain relevant.

Theyll do whatever it takes to keep their names out there-- I think they subscribe to the theory that you should just keep throwing stuff out there-- sooner or later, maybe something will stick. Until they get put on the witness stand, no holds barred, expect more unsubstantiated allegations. There is no "extraordinary proof" here (or proof of any kind, for that matter.)

[captain swoop]

But it's not designed to be an SUV replacement.


That's not the point. That it exists is evidence that there is no conspiracy by the oil companies to suppress designs that can do 200 to the gallon.

[jt-3d]

what's the mpg-equivalent of a golf cart? Maybe just allow those on the road :) (but keep them IN THE RIGHT LANE, please--the rest of us have somewhere to go!)

I've advocated this for years. We would probably need a golfcart lane, like bike lanes but it's doable.

[Fazor]

That's not the point. That it exists is evidence that there is no conspiracy by the oil companies to suppress designs that can do 200 to the gallon.

There was a Nova episode I caught earlier this year about alternative fuels; not only is this technology out there (and relatively "on our doorstep"), but much of it is being developed by the oil companies.

They're not stupid. They know that gasoline will be replaced eventually. They want in on the new techonology so they can continue to make their mind-blowing profits.

[Tucson_Tim]

are "whistleblowers" tooting their own horn?

Generally speaking, maybe. But there have been many famous "whistleblowers" in other industries that have brought to the public many despicable corporate and government practices, and many times to their own detriment.

[Gillianren]

There was a Nova episode I caught earlier this year about alternative fuels; not only is this technology out there (and relatively "on our doorstep"), but much of it is being developed by the oil companies.

They're not stupid. They know that gasoline will be replaced eventually. They want in on the new techonology so they can continue to make their mind-blowing profits.

There is a specific claim about a magic "200-mile-a-gallon carburetor." It does not exist. It has never existed. There is a lot of other technology that majorly increases fuel milage (though it doesn't work on the size of car that Americans want to drive!), but the magic carburetor, as described by CTs, does not exist.

[Fazor]

Yeah; I've actually heard multiple variations of that claim too. The most "interesting" (As in stupid) was a guy in Canada who bought a used car and drove it for a while before realizing he was getting some amazing gas mileage. But before he could prove it, someone broke into his car and took the magic carburetor in the middle of the night! Those dastardly crooks!

[LaurelHS]

Yeah; I've actually heard multiple variations of that claim too. The most "interesting" (As in stupid) was a guy in Canada who bought a used car and drove it for a while before realizing he was getting some amazing gas mileage. But before he could prove it, someone broke into his car and took the magic carburetor in the middle of the night! Those dastardly crooks!

That's just like what happened to Gary McKinnon! He found an "amazing" secret NASA photograph of "something that definitely wasn't man-made." But some evil NASA person disconnected him while he was downloading the picture, so he doesn't have a copy and of course he can't tell us exactly where the photograph came from.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm

;)

[Fazor]

And yet they always act suprised when people like us say we need more proof of their "amazing" stories... :)

[dgavin]

If the person was hacking computers, he needs to go to jail. Just because your after evidence of a so called conspiracy, doesn't give someoen the right to do an end-run around the laws.

Idiot. What did he -think- was going to happen when he hacked computers?

[Fazor]

Idiot. What did he -think- was going to happen when he hacked computers?

Well, if he thought that Nasa could pull off such a huge and (apparently) evil conspiracy ... but still have the evidence available on networks accessable from the outside world (i.e. the internet), then he doesn't have the greatest critical thinking skills to begin with.

That, or he's seen too many movies where the lowly hacker discovers a huge, bad-guy organization's secret, and thus becomes the hero of the world.

I suspect a bit of both.

[LaurelHS]

Well, he was drinking beer and smoking marijuana while he was hacking computers; that might have had a negative effect on his critical thinking skills.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/ufo-hacker-extradited-to-us/2008/07/31/1217097381395.html

[Sigma_Orionis]

Here (http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/41245-another-reason-why-cts-bad-you.html) is a thread about McKinnon and his stunt.

[blueshift]

Trouble is that NASA would be out of both its economic and technological mind not to reveal that it had trapped alien technology along with evidence to back it up. Every time so much as a fossil of some tiny worm shows up imbedded in some meteorite they jump and claim it as evidence that more money should be spent on space exploration. NASA is having enough trouble getting funds to fly to the moon and Mars, giving reasons that presently pale compared to the possible take over by alien creatures, their technology and any alien viruses they may have dragged along. (If I am not mistaken, I believe there IS a virus that Opportunity may have found on Mars that is very deadly to humans? Anyone with any better information?)

[Grashtel]

If I am not mistaken, I believe there IS a virus that Opportunity may have found on Mars that is very deadly to humans? Anyone with any better information?
I'm pretty much certain that Opportunity hasn't found an identifiable virus on Mars, if it had it would have been big news here.

As for any virus that might be found on Mars (or anywhere other than Earth) being dangerous to humans its effectively certain that alien viruses won't have any more effect on terrestrial life than any other random bit of inactive biological material. Viruses are by their nature very dependent on their host so anything from a greatly divergent biosphere wouldn't even be able to load themselves into terrestrial genetic material, let alone actually work. You are more at risk of catching the flu from a pot plant (and vice versa) than an alien virus effecting terrestrial life, plants are orders of magnitude closer to humans than any alien. OTOH alien bacteria or equivalents are very likely to be a problem, by their nature they are able to work out how to eat pretty much anything even slightly organic given time.

[Nowhere Man]

The MERs (Spirit and Opportunity) are not equipped to look for life, much less viruses. They are geology probes. Unless the virus is larger than normal...

(Sid Harris cartoon: Setting is a biology lab. Two scientist types are looking, aghast, into a large wire box. One comments, "Biggest damn virus I've ever seen!")

Fred

[Dave J]

"Secret clearances" are about a dime a dozen...don't impress me much, as the song goes...

[eburacum45]

Mckinnon claims to have been inspired in his search by the tales told by Donna Hare; he specifically went in to look for this stuff. He found very little coherent evidence, didn't save any of it, and in his own admission "I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2005/jul/09/weekend7.weekend2

So this whole affair started with the Disclosure project and its ridiculous claims. This Mckinnon chap has simply been sucked in, on a wild goose chase looking for evidence that isn't there. If the so-called 'whistleblowers' want to get involved now at the end of the process, then it has come full circle.

[blueshift]

I'm pretty much certain that Opportunity hasn't found an identifiable virus on Mars, if it had it would have been big news here.

As for any virus that might be found on Mars (or anywhere other than Earth) being dangerous to humans its effectively certain that alien viruses won't have any more effect on terrestrial life than any other random bit of inactive biological material. Viruses are by their nature very dependent on their host so anything from a greatly divergent biosphere wouldn't even be able to load themselves into terrestrial genetic material, let alone actually work. You are more at risk of catching the flu from a pot plant (and vice versa) than an alien virus effecting terrestrial life, plants are orders of magnitude closer to humans than any alien. OTOH alien bacteria or equivalents are very likely to be a problem, by their nature they are able to work out how to eat pretty much anything even slightly organic given time.Thanks for the input. I did read somewhere about one such virus and it is probably right here on earth but contained or in an extreme environment.

[LaurelHS]

are "whistleblowers" tooting their own horn?

Generally speaking, maybe. But there have been many famous "whistleblowers" in other industries that have brought to the public many despicable corporate and government practices, and many times to their own detriment.

That's true, but I think A-l-e-x was specifically referring to the "Disclosure Project" whistleblowers and others who make unsubstantiated claims just for attention and/or to sell books and videos. People (Christoph Meili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Meili) for example) who can provide actual evidence of "despicable corporate and government practices" are very different.

[JayUtah]

The difference between true whistle-blowers and the self-styled whistle-blowers of the Disclosure Project and similar circuses is that a true whistle-blower's connection to the events he discloses is largely undisputed. Christoph Meili was unquestionably employed at the bank upon which he blew the whistle. It is not as if he merely claimed to work there, but no evidence of that employment could be found. A true whistle-blower must be able to prove he was an insider.

Contrast this with Hare and Clifford Stone and many of the other Disclosure Project witnesses. They made bold claims to having been involved in high-level activities. But they could not provide any credible evidence to having really been insiders. For example they couldn't answer simple questions correctly about places where they'd alleged to have worked. Unfortunately UFO fanaticism seems to be rife with such unsupported claims to access.

[Tucson_Tim]

That's true, but I think A-l-e-x was specifically referring to the "Disclosure Project" whistleblowers . . .

I realized that when I posted. I was responding to the "incomplete" thread title - a peeve of mine. :razz: