PDA

View Full Version : Apollo 11 video question



Peter B
2002-Mar-20, 05:09 AM
I recently bought a NASA video, which included some material on Apollo 11.

Some of this footage was filmed from the MESA bay. Armstrong is the only visible astronaut, and is walking away from the camera beyond the ladder. As he does so, he's speaking about the similarity of what he sees to the high deserts of America. (Though I don't know whether he said those words at the time, or the audio has just been tacked on there.)

Anyway, against the Descent Stage I can see something moving. It looks like a length of rope, with one end disappearing out of the top of the frame. It's moving at a speed which seems inconsistent with the Moon's gravity.

The two possible explanations I can think of are: it's a rope of some sort which Aldrin is manipulating from the LM, either for the MESA or that lanyard arrangement they had to move things from the surface to the LM; or it's an optical effect caused by Armstrong's movement into the Sun.

Is anyone familiar with the footage I'm referring to? I certainly don't see any hoax angle. It's just that, Apollo Tragic that I am /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif , I'd like to understand what I can see.

Magnificent Desolation
2002-Mar-20, 07:31 AM
On 2002-03-20 00:09, Peter B wrote:
I recently bought a NASA video, which included some material on Apollo 11.

Some of this footage was filmed from the MESA bay. Armstrong is the only visible astronaut, and is walking away from the camera beyond the ladder. As he does so, he's speaking about the similarity of what he sees to the high deserts of America. (Though I don't know whether he said those words at the time, or the audio has just been tacked on there.)

Anyway, against the Descent Stage I can see something moving. It looks like a length of rope, with one end disappearing out of the top of the frame. It's moving at a speed which seems inconsistent with the Moon's gravity.

The two possible explanations I can think of are: it's a rope of some sort which Aldrin is manipulating from the LM, either for the MESA or that lanyard arrangement they had to move things from the surface to the LM; or it's an optical effect caused by Armstrong's movement into the Sun.

Is anyone familiar with the footage I'm referring to? I certainly don't see any hoax angle. It's just that, Apollo Tragic that I am /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif , I'd like to understand what I can see.


Well, the remark about the high deserts pinpoints the exact time.

The ALSJ tells us:(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.step.html)

"109:34:56 Armstrong: It has a stark beauty all its own. It's like much of the high desert of the United States. It's different, but it's very pretty out here."

Your remark "It's moving at a speed which seems inconsistent with the Moon's gravity." makes me think that it most likely is a reflection of some kind.

"Television from the Moon" (http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/apollo11/tv_from_moon.html) says:

"Image Artefacts:

A number of peculiar image artefacts were seen on the images broadcast to the world. One set of artefacts was produced by sunlight reflecting off the astronauts and the LM, directly onto the lens of the lunar TV camera. One prominent bright streak appeared to the right of the US flag. It was a reflection of the bright, sunlit, rear leg of the LM. Whenever the astronauts walked in front of the portion of the picture that coincided with the bright streak, it appeared to be visible through them. These reflections produced the ghostly effects remembered by the public.

Another set of prominent artefacts were small 'white spots' seen in the images scan-converted from the Goldstone and Parkes pictures. These were a result of the optical conversion system. According to John Bolton, following tests of the system the 10-inch monitors were left on and burned spots on their screens. However Ed von Renouard, the Honeysuckle Creek video operator, suggested they may have been reflections from ceiling lights that somehow got into the matte black enclosures of the scan-converters through cracks and other areas. Bill Wood, the Goldstone lead video engineer, thinks they were defects in the targets of the Vidicon camera tubes and Richard Holl, the Parkes scan-converter designer and operator, agrees with him. Whatever their origin, when the images from Goldstone and Parkes were scan-converted, the spots were always present. The Goldstone pictures had a white spot located just below the centre of the screen, whereas the Parkes pictures had the spot located just above the middle of the right hand edge of the screen. The author has not been able to find any such spots on the pictures from Honeysuckle Creek. This has been fortuitous, since it has enabled the author to easily identify the sources of the pictures in the broadcasts of the moonwalk."

"Magnificent Desolation"

2002-Mar-20, 09:38 AM
<a name="20020320.3:13"> page 20020320.3:13 aka The Shadow`$
On 2002-03-20 02:31, Magnificent Desolation wrote: To: 1 CHUEN 9 CUMK

On 2002-03-20 00:09, Peter B wrote:
I recently bought a NASA video, which included some material on Apollo 11.
.1 the main artifact from naSA videos
2expect2 find are FIRST the total lack
of Earth Shine Shadows
-------------------------
its pretty mych conseeded that 11 landed
at least close to the terminator (movie star discalimer)
and the Earth was sheading earthshine into
the lunar shadow (Easily seen)
so there should be two sets of shadows
/ at an angle with long BRIGHT Sun ones
and shorter dimmer Earth Shine ones ..
True the Earth shine ones might only
have been appearent in Sun shadows
BUT they SHOULD be there!
the second point 2: are the lengths
of the Solar shadows themselves
way, Way, WAY to short for the Time
those Sun Shine Shadows should be
at least 6 times the highth of the caster
so a 6 foot A.nought would be Min 36 feet
and not the puny short shadows you see
from NaSA2 and my best guess puts them
even longer than that better than 10:1
So who's **'n who
well never mind then

"Magnificent Desolation"

i'll go back to muMath if i can & LIE
http://www.liv.ac.uk/
not mostly i found just java so far {AM tracking}

Magnificent Desolation
2002-Mar-20, 12:01 PM
This is just a crazy thought (I have not seen the footage in question) ...

But COULD the "length of rope, with one end disappearing out of the top of the frame" possibly be a hair or a fiber caught somewhere in the process ? Perhaps on a lens here on Earth ?

A bit like the hair/fiber from the imfamous "C-rock":

http://www.lunaranomalies.com/c-rock.htm
http://www.clavius.org/rover1.html

Anyway, just a completely crazy theought ......

"Magnificent Desolation"

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Mar-20, 12:03 PM
On 2002-03-20 04:38, HUb' wrote:
those Sun Shine Shadows should be
at least 6 times the highth of the caster
so a 6 foot A.nought would be Min 36 feet
and not the puny short shadows you see
from NaSA2 and my best guess puts them
even longer than that better than 10:1
So who's **'n who
What's your second guess?

ToSeek
2002-Mar-20, 01:46 PM
On 2002-03-20 00:09, Peter B wrote:

Some of this footage was filmed from the MESA bay. Armstrong is the only visible astronaut, and is walking away from the camera beyond the ladder. As he does so, he's speaking about the similarity of what he sees to the high deserts of America. (Though I don't know whether he said those words at the time, or the audio has just been tacked on there.)

Anyway, against the Descent Stage I can see something moving. It looks like a length of rope, with one end disappearing out of the top of the frame. It's moving at a speed which seems inconsistent with the Moon's gravity.

The two possible explanations I can think of are: it's a rope of some sort which Aldrin is manipulating from the LM, either for the MESA or that lanyard arrangement they had to move things from the surface to the LM; or it's an optical effect caused by Armstrong's movement into the Sun.

Is anyone familiar with the footage I'm referring to? I certainly don't see any hoax angle. It's just that, Apollo Tragic that I am /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif , I'd like to understand what I can see.


I pulled out the video on the CD that came with the Apollo 11 Mission Report (Volume 2). It's hard to correlate with what you're seeing because Armstrong is not actually in shot when he's talking about the similarity to the high deserts (someone's been editing - I hate that!). It could certainly be the lanyard (LEC to get technical) that they used to lower the Hasselblad, though, or else maybe just a reflection or somesuch. But I watched the whole of the TV until Aldrin steps out and didn't see anything that matched your description.

Peter B
2002-Mar-20, 08:21 PM
We-e-ell, I'll have another look at the video. The problem is that, as I mentioned in my first post, it's conceivable the video and the audio come from different times and have been edited together for dramatic purposes.

I don't think it's an anomaly back on Earth, but obviously I can rule it out.

For those Really Tragic people with access to all the Apollo 11 video, at the moment I can't be more precise than to say that the footage appears to have been taken when the TV camera was still in the MESA bay.

2002-Mar-21, 08:33 AM
On 2002-03-20 07:03, GrapesOfWrath wrote:


On 2002-03-20 04:38, HUb' wrote:
those Sun Shine Shadows should be
at least 6 times the highth of the caster
so a 6 foot A.nought would be Min 36 feet
and not the puny short shadows you see
from NaSA2 and my best guess puts them
even longer than that better than 10:1
So who's **'n who
What's your second guess?
I sort of like RED SHIFT {& drift`n Right} I'd guess Right ascenmsion if i refind that 1 i'l LINK 2it

2002-Mar-23, 11:57 AM
<a name="20020323.5:44"> page 20020323.5:44 aka second guess
On 2002-03-21 03:33, HUb' wrote: To: 5:45 HUb'
"My second guess would also be a LIE
On 2002-03-20 07:03, GrapesOfWrath wrote: To: page 60
&1
&2
Fri 03-22 LIE CH6 CALCULUS the DIF function ... syntax
DIF("EXPR","VAR1,"NUM1","VAR2","NUM2",...)
THUS ? DIF(F,X); := dF/dX ? DIF9F,X,3); d3F/dX3
PAGE 60 ?DIF(I(X0,X,2) @:SIN X .. NOW 2LIE `erSelf
? DIF(SIN(X),X,2);
@: -SIN (X)
&3
&4
yeah when i did that I left out a - sing
somewhere.. maybe i corrected it but i doubt this2.

Peter B
2002-Mar-25, 12:04 AM
Well, I've had another look at the video, and checked what Armstrong said against the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal transcript. (Go visit it people, it's amazing!)

On the video, just after he refers to the high desert, he moves back towards the camera, asking Houston whether they're getting a picture.

According to the transcript, these two statements were made about three minutes apart, so there's clearly been some editing done.

Anyway, right at the end of the sequence, Armstrong appears to be about to reach up to grab whatever it is I've seen. And around this time, the transcript shows Aldrin and Armstrong were discussing the lanyard arrangement. So I'll conclude that this is probably what I saw.

2002-Mar-25, 12:48 PM
On 2002-03-24 19:04, Peter B wrote: To:HUb' 6:38 A.M.
[x] yeah? I probably heard the same story





A ... his is probably what I saw.