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Uclock
2008-Jun-28, 01:41 PM
Could anyone here help me?

How would you mathematically model a cluster of bubbles?

If no one knows perhaps you could point me in the right direction to find the relavent equations.

Thanks

Chris Hillman
2008-Jun-28, 04:20 PM
What features are you trying to model? E.g. are you a graphics artist seeking advice on getting a computer to draw realistic soap bubbles?

I guess you know all about the connection between soap bubbles and minimal surfaces? And that you have seen the classic book by Boys, which IIRC has been reprinted by Dover?

mugaliens
2008-Jun-28, 04:35 PM
Have you tried looking up "bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_bubble#Mathematical_properties)" on either Wikipedia or Google, yet?

PS:, H.A. Schwartz's theorem that a sphere was the least-area way of enclosing a given volume of air in a soap bubble was proposed way back in 1884. However, it wasn't until 2000 that it was proven that "two merged soap bubbles provide the optimum way of enclosing two given volumes of air with the least surface area."

That's just two bubbles. There's a reason this area of mathematics is termed "complex," and is probably beyond the scope, mathematically, of our board, here.

If you want to read a general English discussion of the situation, follow the link I provided, above.

astromark
2008-Jun-29, 03:07 AM
Some of these things are best not put in front of a mathematician. I would try and dis wade you from the pursuit of the mathematical formula for soap bubble formation and the multiples of such... Attain the suitable compounds and go play a while... you obviously missed some thing when you were four.
Yes! I understand that it would be possible to express mathematically the seemingly random formations of soap bubbles, and the way they connect in multiples... Go search out the swimming pools complex for the Beijing Olimpics... It could all have been done for you. Lots of multi sided and irregular shaped formations...
Some things work better with a pencil than a PC.

sabianq
2008-Jun-29, 03:15 AM
i think this is what you are looking for.

cheers!

sabianq
2008-Jun-29, 03:17 AM
the fractal bubble model :)

mugaliens
2008-Jun-29, 09:17 AM
the fractal bubble model :)

Is that anything like a pleated bubble skirt?

astromark
2008-Jun-29, 09:44 AM
And the point being ?...

Humanity has the perception to imagine any one of dozens of what ifs, maybes and this 'Bubble Universe' included. None of that actually helps. We postulate many possibilities all uncertain. We can formulate models and test the Theories with all asunder. The fact is we as yet can not be so cleaver as to define the actual structure of this universe completely. For those who will see me as being in error are this time wrong.:)-:)and it looks a little like the string thingie a? ATM., and the bubble wrap.

BigDon
2008-Jun-29, 02:42 PM
In order to become adept at coral husbandry in the aquarium, (prior to becoming horribly allergic to them and cnidarians in general. God's way of saying, "Find another line of work.") I had to learn more about the physics of bubbles in salt water than I thought was out there.

Including just how density, salinity and especially pH affect the formation. In order to optimize the function of our protien skimmers, which act like a set of kidneys for your marine tank without removing water.

mugaliens
2008-Jun-30, 05:57 PM
In order to become adept at coral husbandry in the aquarium, (prior to becoming horribly allergic to them and cnidarians in general. God's way of saying, "Find another line of work.") I had to learn more about the physics of bubbles in salt water than I thought was out there.

Including just how density, salinity and especially pH affect the formation. In order to optimize the function of our protien skimmers, which act like a set of kidneys for your marine tank without removing water.

BD, I'll bet you have a lot more insight than most as to just what is causing the massive reef dyoffs we've seen over the last 50 years. Radiation from nuke test? Global warming?

I don't think so, and believe the answer is either complex chemical pollutants, over fishing (less protein to skim), or a combination of both.

Would you care to open a new thread and flesh out your perceptions of what might be happening?

BigDon
2008-Jun-30, 06:16 PM
Simplier than that Mugs.

There are classes of bacteria that can't produce the proteins needed to invade the tissues of coral until the water temperature gets above 81 degrees F. Why you want to keep you coral tanks below that temperature.

Bet you didn't think of that.