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Sever
2003-Aug-17, 07:01 PM
Giant robot fans unite! any one like the Big O, man that show rocks!

darkhunter
2003-Aug-17, 07:09 PM
Veritech--versitiliy+speed+simplicity (two weapons to worry about--gau-whatever+Missiles) also easy to repair

Gundum--comes in second due to the resupply and repair problems

Battle mech--too sloo, not flight capable (barring the whatchamacallit variable whatever mechs that are basically veritechs under a different name)

Humphrey
2003-Aug-17, 07:42 PM
love battlemechs. more realistic weapons than the other two. :-P

Vermonter
2003-Aug-17, 08:34 PM
I agree with Humphrey. Battlemechs are actually possible in the near future, too. I think.

wedgebert
2003-Aug-18, 02:02 AM
I agree with Humphrey. Battlemechs are actually possible in the near future, too. I think.

So are the wars that destroy a large portion of our technological knowledge.

But I voted BattleTech as well. BattleTech was created so that it makes sense, not just some guy wearing a giant robot suit that moves exactly like humans do (i.e. martial arts and all the fluid motions)

I'd like to see a BattleTech movie or live-action TV show. Nothing as stupid as the Robot Wars movies (oh my God!!, he's got a GREEN laser and all I've got is a RED one!).

A (new) cartoon using the computer animation methods they used in the Roughneck Chronicles cartoon would be cool too.

Of course it all have to be Pre-clan era BattleTech, when technology was still being lost faster than it was being (re)discovered. Gotta get back the rights to the BattleMaster, Marauder, Locust and WarHammer mechs too. It's not BattleTech without a Marauder.

R.A.F.
2003-Aug-18, 02:25 AM
A (new) cartoon using the computer animation methods they used in the Roughneck Chronicles cartoon would be cool too.

I REALLY enjoyed that cartoon and was saddened to see it end.

BTW...When I hear the words Giant Robot the first thing to come to mind is my favorite Giant Robot...GIGANTOR, an early 60's, somewhat cheesy Japanese cartoon import with VERY limited animation. I still loved it.

Sever
2003-Aug-18, 02:30 AM
cartoon network had a giant robot week, they jumbled the episodes of 14 shows so badly most shows started in the last season! Included giagantor!

Nightfall
2003-Aug-18, 02:49 AM
Epic 40,000.

jkmccrann
2005-Oct-21, 03:43 PM
And the Transformers, now they were something special. But I'd have to go with the BattleMech, much more realistic and you get to play them more in the arcades!

Moose
2005-Oct-21, 04:03 PM
I think I have to (mostly) agree with Darkhunter's analysis.

Veritechs and (I can only suspect) Gundams are much more mobile than Battlemechs are. Which means they not only control the field but the timing as well, and can disengage at will.

But here's the real clincher:

I seem to remember some early mechwarrior(?) models that were astounding in their resemblence to a number of robotech mechs, namely the Zentradi (male) officer's pod and the Excalibur and Gladiator destroids. Not, I think, a coincidence, though I don't know the exact circumstances. In any case...

It seems to me it's not unreasonable to consider Robotech destroids and Battlemechs as being roughly analagous in capabilities and armament. Robotech also clearly depicts Veritech fighters as being significantly more combat-effective than destroids due to their far greater mobility and versatility.

I can't comment about Gundams, having no real clue as to their capabilities.

Laminal Cockroach
2005-Oct-21, 04:22 PM
hmmm

Sock Munkey
2005-Oct-21, 05:26 PM
The veritech's gerwalk or "gaurdian" mode gives it the ability to operate in ground effect at ground level well below anti-aircraft defenses at flying speed.

(Ground effect is the most energy efficient form of powered fight BTW)

This mobility combined with the flexibility of being able to operate in various modes is one heck of an advantage.

What we need to address is the difficuty and expense of manufacure as well as maintinence in the field.
This is a critical factor in warfare that is often overlooked in disussions.
After all, having a fantastic war machine means a lot less if the enemy can outnumber you sufficiently.

(Yes I know it's a cartoon but my inner nitpicking nature can't always be restrained.)

novaderrik
2005-Oct-21, 06:49 PM
what about Voltron? the one with the lions, not the one with the cars..
as long as he doesn't "get served', he kicks butt.
(if anyone "gets" that comment, you must watch Adult Swim)..

darkhunter
2005-Oct-21, 07:09 PM
The drawback to any of the mech's is the power supply--especially if we want them to act the way they do in the documenteries...eeerrr....cartoons/games :)

With the Osprey we already have a simple Veritech (OK--no battleoid mode and it's a little slower :) ) there are a few people whove built working "battlemechs"/power armor.

There is research into "artificial muscle" which could be used for motion, as well as the old standby of hydraulic or pnuematic systems (with proper design they can move quickly.

Construction/maintenance could be modularized (Gundum's drawback is the Gunduminium allow which appears to be very rare). Many modern peices of equipment is built this way...the box fial--yank it and throw in a new one.

So far, everythings doable--but they still need power--lot's of it. We don't have protoculture or small fusion reactors that can power the vehicles....yet.

Musashi
2005-Oct-21, 07:12 PM
You just need a protoculture matrix.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Oct-21, 07:21 PM
I hate to bring this up again, but why would you want a mech when a good old tank would beat the heck out of it?

Musashi
2005-Oct-21, 07:22 PM
A tank wouldn't really stand a chance against a veritech.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Oct-21, 07:24 PM
Oh. Right. We're assuming that these things would work in the real world in exactly the same way that they do on screen.

Statement retracted.

Musashi
2005-Oct-21, 07:42 PM
I agree that it is fantastic, but it would be pointless to call them by their cartoon names if we were going to argue real world, wouldn't it? I mean, real world a Veritech is just an F-14. (Now, change it to an A-10 and it still beats up on tanks with no real problem :)). The Gundam and the Battlemech have no real-world analogs (as far as I can tell).

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Oct-21, 07:46 PM
Okay, I'll admit I have no idea what any of these are. And it seems that I was wrong in assuming that mechs were big machines with legs. An F-14? Yeah, that'll end a tank really effectively.

Musashi
2005-Oct-21, 07:55 PM
Yeah, mechs are basically tanks on legs. But it would be unfair to pit fledgling mech technology (which we aren't even at yet) against the latest evolution of tanks. It may be that advanced mechs are impossible or implausible or too expensive or whatever, but we aren't there yet (and without a seriously high powered but portable energy source, we probably won't get there).

Anyway, good to see you around.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Oct-21, 08:11 PM
It may be that advanced mechs are impossible or implausible or too expensive or whatever, but we aren't there yet (and without a seriously high powered but portable energy source, we probably won't get there).

True. But even if we get that energy source, I just don't see mechs being able to replace the tank. Maybe as light armour, but not as an MBT. The thing is, you can't make them too big. Something that sticks out over a horizon is going to get killed very quickly. And you need something big to replace a tank.

So. Maybe a short, moderately armed, one-person mech would be useful on a battlefield.

But, as you say, we aren't there yet.

Oh, and thanks. Good to see you too. (But I've been here the whole time ;) )

publiusr
2005-Oct-21, 08:57 PM
Giant robot fans unite! any one like the Big O, man that show rocks! I'd pick the Big O over all of them. I dig R. Dorothy too.

Van Rijn
2005-Oct-21, 09:07 PM
No answer here. I vaguely remember Robotech an age or three ago, never could take Gundam, and I'm unclear on the other one. If I like a Mecha anime, it is usually despite the mecha, not because of it. For instance, my least favorite part of Big O were the scenes with ... Big O. Other than that, it was a very interesting series.


True. But even if we get that energy source, I just don't see mechs being able to replace the tank. Maybe as light armour, but not as an MBT. The thing is, you can't make them too big. Something that sticks out over a horizon is going to get killed very quickly. And you need something big to replace a tank.

So. Maybe a short, moderately armed, one-person mech would be useful on a battlefield.


That's exactly the problem. Giant human shaped robots would be worse than useless, especially given realistic armor. Given a power supply, I certainly could see some kind of power suit that would be just a bit bigger than a human alone, but could give infantry huge advantages. I think the real direction will be modestly sized semi-autonomous robot vehicles/weapons.

Trynn Allen
2005-Oct-21, 09:09 PM
Got have me Battlemech. As for tanks they ain't called "roller skates" for no reason, and for the mobile battle armor, a heavy flecette gun does wonders.

Moose
2005-Oct-21, 09:10 PM
Well, there was a thread on mech vs tracked a while back. There was a very strong argument that given an equivalent level of technology, the track configuration was likely to be much, much more effective in nearly every practical way when considering an armored main battle vehicle.

The veritech, however, adds another variable to the argument: air vs ground. There have been some advances in stand-off "tank plinking" weapons, but at the same time, advances in the effectiveness of mobile SAMs, stealth technology, reconnaisance, artillary, etc, etc, etc also modify the original argument effectively beyond recognition. It's all about combined arms, anyway.

Van Rijn
2005-Oct-21, 09:17 PM
I'd pick the Big O over all of them. I dig R. Dorothy too.

I might agree, but in that series, R. Dorothy was far more interesting than Big O. She was much closer to an Asimov robot than most of what passes for robots in anime.

TheBlackCat
2005-Oct-22, 07:39 AM
Among the list, I would have to say Gundam's. Although I am not very fimiliar with gundams, and I am very familiar with robotech and battletech, the little I do know about gundams indicates they can be equipped with vastly superior firepower.

However, they are not on the list but Zoids are would beat any of the mechas on the list. They are self-repairing, semi-intelligent so they work along with their pilots to win battles, and often have insanely strong firepower. One, the Death Stinger, has a charged-particle gun that is capable of destroying an entire city from orbit, not to mention basically indestructible armor that can swim in lava or survive a fall from orbit, as well as a bunch of other extremely powerful weapons. The Ultimate Death saurer is the size of a skyscraper, has a charged particle gun that with one shot and a beam-splitter was able to vaporize dozens of cities around the world. It als has a bunch of guided missiles that when they explode release a rain of giant spikes that can impale an army ordinary-sized mecha. Its armor is almost impenetrable, and it has an extremely powerful shield. There is also the ultrasaurus, which is the size of a city, the geno breaker, which has an charged particle gun cable of taking out sizable armies in a single shot but can also fly and has significant speed, maneuverability, and close-combat capability. I think a group of the most powerful zoids, even ignoring the ultra-powerful ones like the death saurer, death stinger, and ultrasaurus, could take all the mechas on the list simultaneously.

darkhunter
2005-Oct-22, 08:24 AM
Among the list, I would have to say Gundam's. Although I am not very fimiliar with gundams, and I am very familiar with robotech and battletech, the little I do know about gundams indicates they can be equipped with vastly superior firepower.
While the Gundams are cool, with some heavy firepower, spare parts for them are scarce, and their armor is even rarer. While field maintenance appears simple, it won't make up for the lack of numbers.

Note: My reference for Gundum capabilities and numbers is the series Gundum Wing. If the other series show more availbility I'll retract my previous statement.

Yoshua
2005-Oct-22, 11:19 AM
Epic 40,000.

While I would agree that any WH 40k Titan would utterly and completely destroy the above choices, that was not an option. :)