Are you skeptical?

[dita]

I dont know if any of you have kept up on this guy Gary McKinnon but take a look see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm

he claims that UFO's are real and that the govt. is covering it up. What do you think? Are you skeptical?

[Argos]

UFO´s are real. I´ve seen many (and I´m a skeptical).

[Sigma_Orionis]

See This (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=41245) thread

[gwiz]

Two years of searching and all he found was Donna Hare?

[Night G]

I am skeptical of several things contained in that article. First, I find it hard to believe without evidence that he broke into a government network in the manner he described in the interview. That "empty password" hack sounds more like tired internet lore. Then there is the business with the Java app he used to down sample an image to 4-bit color until his connection was cut off by some mysterious "hand" but couldn't show anyone because he didn't save a copy of the image to his hard drive......and so on. That all sounds sort of, well....made up.

What do you think?

[Sigma_Orionis]

I don't find hard to believe that he broke into servers in a computer network because of blank passwords, I work in IT security and errors like that are common. According to the article in question he was arrested in 2002, McKinnon claims to have been searching for evidence on Alien Technology hidden by the US goverment for two years, that makes it at the very least in 2000, despite all the hoopla about security in computer networks, things like that were not UNCOMMON in 2000 or earlier (even in 2002).

[Night G]

You might be right but under the circumstances that he would have us believe, these servers supposedly contain information about "free energy" and other "alien technology". I just don't buy that idea that this information would be visible to anyone without authorization to view it and that he hacked into this data by using default admin passwords. Unless there is something I don't understand about the interview. He seemed to be answering his own questions rather than those from the interviewer.

[Astronot]

I say he is a crackpot!


Old-age pensioners can't pay their fuel bills, countries are invaded to award oil contracts to the West, and meanwhile secretive parts of the secret government are sitting on suppressed technology for free energy.
Free energy technology. As my kids say, “whatever.”


And he has poor photoanalytic skills.

I got one picture out of the folder, … I turned the colour down to 4bit colour and the screen resolution really, really low, and even then the picture was still juddering as it came onto the screen.
But what came on to the screen was amazing. It was a culmination of all my efforts. It was a picture of something that definitely wasn't man-made. It was above the Earth's hemisphere. It kind of looked like a satellite.
Since when has using four colors and low resolution to view a presumably color photo been considered a good technique? How is something that looks kind of like a satellite definitely not man made?

Poor knowledge and reasoning skills in pursuit of the impossible. A good example of a crackpot.

[Sigma_Orionis]

You might be right but under the circumstances that he would have us believe, these servers supposedly contain information about "free energy" and other "alien technology". I just don't buy that idea that this information would be visible to anyone without authorization to view it and that he hacked into this data by using default admin passwords. Unless there is something I don't understand about the interview. He seemed to be answering his own questions rather than those from the interviewer.

Well, that was my point on the other thread :) I don't doubt he hacked into those servers, what I doubt is that they actually had any secret "Alien Technology" or "Free Energy".

[Gillianren]

It was above the Earth's hemisphere? Which one?

[sts60]

I dont know if any of you have kept up on this guy Gary McKinnon but take a look see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm

he claims that UFO's are real and that the govt. is covering it up. What do you think? Are you skeptical?

I think his claims are ridiculous.

While there certainly are unidentified phenomena, there is no credible evidence that any are actual alien spacecraft. There are plenty of naturally weird sights, misidentifications, misperceptions, misremembrances, outright delusions, and, yes, sighting of experimental aircraft out there that are far more likely. There has never been a shred of material proof of a real alien spacecraft - just claims that "they" have the stuff somewhere.*

For example, the picture on the BBC article
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41641000/jpg/_41641102_ufo_203.jpg
looks a lot like Tacit Blue (http://www.alhrg.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf37a.htm), which is oh-so-super-secret nowadays. (Notice who's hosting the page?) That's what you get when you know something about cracking into poorly-secured computers but nothing at all about the actual subject. Instead of thinking, "Hey! that looks like a stealth test aircraft, or maybe a derivative!", you think, "Hey! that looks like some sorta alien spaceship thing, or maybe a top-secret free-energy powered derivative, that NASA conveniently posts images of on unclassified computers!"**

The rest is equally laughable. The whole free-energy thing, for example, indicates how disconnected from reality this bunch is. I urge you to read Voodoo Science (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195147103/qid=1147284887/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7204248-8659146?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)) by Bob Park for a thorough dissection of free energy and its believers.

As for his alleged NASA informant, her story is quite literally unbelievable (see here (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=2284) and here (http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=719115&postcount=504) and subsequent posts in that thread).

Finally, classified materials are not kept on systems connected to the Internet. There is a separate internetwork for such materials (SIPRNET (http://www.disa.mil/main/prodsol/data.html)).

The whole thing is just malarkey powered by overactive imagination, in this particular case belonging to yet another computer weenie*** with no experience in the real world and who probably thought The Matrix was all profound and perhaps nonfiction.


*Which isn't the same as saying we definitely haven't been visited. It's just that the evidence for it is - as Carl Sagan put it - crummy; and there are a host of more prosaic and likely explanations.

Edited to add:**This picture is apparently not from McKinnon, but a representative image from whoever put together the BBC story. But the general idea stands.

**Having been a computer weenie myself, I'm not busting on computer weenies in general. Just those who think the world begins and ends at a computer screen.

[eburacum45]

Mckinnon is elaborating the story somewhat here, I believe. He did not find any evidence of UFOs while he was trawling the US Military networks,
(as he has admitted here in this inteview)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1523143,00.html

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.
"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."
"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.
"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."
"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.
"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."
"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"
"I guess so," says Gary.
"What were the ship names?"
"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."
He has found nothing of import by himself, so he has started churning out the stuff from the Disclosure project, which is available to anyone at their website.
And the material from the Disclosure project has little credibility, and gains no more credibilty by being repeated by this chap.
The stuff he has quoted about pensioners needing help with their fuel bills while the government sits on alien ZPE technology is the clincher, for me; that is what Steven Greer believes, and it is complete garbage.

[sts60]

I was smoking a lot of dope at the time.

Yup.

[_DRAGONLORD_]

I don't think little alien dudes in saucers come abduct people or even come to Earth.

[twinstead]

I was smoking a lot of dope at the time.

Yup.

I see a Cheech and Chong routine in this thread somewhere trying desperately to get out.

[Astronot]

I see a Cheech and Chong routine in this thread somewhere trying desperately to get out.
Yes! It finishes with the British courts extraditing him for hacking military computers and handing him over to U.S. authorities with the words, “Gary, it's Officer O’Malley of the FBI, your busted.

[sts60]

Again, yup. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/05/10/uk.hacker.ap/index.html)

[tbm]

Yes! It finishes with the British courts extraditing him for hacking military computers and handing him over to U.S. authorities with the words, “Gary, it's Officer O’Malley of the FBI, your busted.

Uhhhh, Dave's not here!

tbm

[Sigma_Orionis]

I see a Cheech and Chong routine in this thread somewhere trying desperately to get out.

Chong: Hey Cheech! what'cha doin man?

Cheech: I'm hacking into the Evil Gubmint(TM) computers dude, lots of stuff on aliens!

Chong: Just make sure you don't mess up the voltages this time, last time they made a movie about it and they didn't give us any credit!

Cheech: No sweat! I found this really cool Javascript app to download alien images from those Evil Gubmint(TM) servers!

Chong: (watching an XB-70 image from Nasa Dryden) Yeah! look at that! out of this world!

Cheech: Yep, I bet no engineer in this world was smart enough to come up with something like that, they must have copied stuff from that UFO in Roswell.

Chong: (watching an AvroCar) see I told you! a flying saucer!

Cheech: hey man want some "stuff"?

Chong: Sure

Several hours later a neighbour tired of Cheech and Chong's shouting and bad jokes bangs at Cheech and Chong's Door

- Open up you punks! it's tha PO-lice!

Cheech (all "worked up") : Hey man! it's the MIBs, they are going to bust us! the evil templar illuminati are after us because we discovered their secret UFO technology

Chong: (yawning) don't worry I destroyed the evidence, after all, the UFO guys don't need any, let's just split!

As our two heroes leave through the bathroom window Cheech shouts "Elvis HAS left the building!"

[Larry Jacks]

Finally, classified materials are not kept on systems connected to the Internet. There is a separate internetwork for such materials (SIPRNET).
.

Actually, there are other networks that the government uses for classified information in addition to SIPRNET. SIPRNET is cleared to handle information up to Secret. For Top Secret, there is GWAN and CWAN. There may be other networks for things beyond secret (SCI and SAP/SAR). The point is that if such information truly existed on government computer networks, it would be at a very high classification level and wouldn't be on anything accessible by the Internet. It just doesn't work that way.

NASA networks have been hacked (and perhaps some unclassified DoD networks) but they don't deal very much with classified information. Most of their sensitive stuff is probably contract selection-related materials.

[sts60]

Thanks, Larry. I've had experience with SIPRNET only, in a previous job. Nver had to deal with the others (or knew about them).

[Sigma_Orionis]

Finally, classified materials are not kept on systems connected to the Internet. There is a separate internetwork for such materials (SIPRNET).
.

Actually, there are other networks that the government uses for classified information in addition to SIPRNET. SIPRNET is cleared to handle information up to Secret. For Top Secret, there is GWAN and CWAN. There may be other networks for things beyond secret (SCI and SAP/SAR). The point is that if such information truly existed on government computer networks, it would be at a very high classification level and wouldn't be on anything accessible by the Internet. It just doesn't work that way.

NASA networks have been hacked (and perhaps some unclassified DoD networks) but they don't deal very much with classified information. Most of their sensitive stuff is probably contract selection-related materials.


Thanks for the info, it's illogical to put stuff that requires to be protected to such an extent in a public network. And I didn't think it was

[long live the queeb]

Tsk,Tsk. Whats up with you guys, I find the man entirely credible, in fact I was so insenced by your typical Government lacky replies that Matron kindly undid the restraints so I could post. Whats that Nurse, Medication time? sorry must go, now where did I put that tin foil........

[Goblin]

I checked out that disclosure project. Downloaded the press conference of the military witness people. I don't see he has solid evidense of Hidden free energy. But the military witness cases were very interesting. He has 400 or so ex military. He hired a lawyer so they could get around breaking oath penalties. The number of people is compelling but it does not prove they are telling the truth. I have it somewere on my HD if you want to take a look. I think they charge for it now. The file is like 200 megs though.


Mckinnon is elaborating the story somewhat here, I believe. He did not find any evidence of UFOs while he was trawling the US Military networks,
(as he has admitted here in this inteview)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1523143,00.html

He has found nothing of import by himself, so he has started churning out the stuff from the Disclosure project, which is available to anyone at their website.
And the material from the Disclosure project has little credibility, and gains no more credibilty by being repeated by this chap.
The stuff he has quoted about pensioners needing help with their fuel bills while the government sits on alien ZPE technology is the clincher, for me; that is what Steven Greer believes, and it is complete garbage.

[Eric Vaxxine]

UFO´s are real. I´ve seen many (and I´m a skeptical).

I guess you are talking Unidentified Flying Objetcs, not necessarily 'Extraterrestial' objects?

[Eric Vaxxine]

I see a Cheech and Chong routine in this thread somewhere trying desperately to get out.

"I don't know what it is you're smoking in there boss, but I sure would like some?"

(Just before he turns into a lizard)

[Argos]

I guess you are talking Unidentified Flying Objetcs,

Yes, I´ve seen many flying things that I could not identify. :)

[Eric Vaxxine]

Have you discussed them on this forum, where can I look without asking you to repeat yourself?

[Argos]

No, Eric, I don´t think so, sorry. I remember having talked about a bolide here once, but I´ve never commented on UFO´s.

[Eric Vaxxine]

No, Eric, I don´t think so, sorry. I remember having talked about a bolide here once, but I´ve never commented on UFO´s.

Perhaps a thread about your experiences would be interesting?

[sts60]

I don't see he has solid evidense of Hidden free energy. But the military witness cases were very interesting.

See, they don't have to be lying for their conclusions to be wrong. They could be mistaken, misremembering, confabulating (especially given the cultural context and suggestive support), unconsciously embellishing, whatever - all perfectly human behaviors which happen to plenty of honest and intelligent people.

But the "free energy" part definitely slides the whole thing down the slope towards pure crackpottery. Read Bob Park's Voodoo Science for a great exposition on free-energy believers and the problems with their claims.

Note: I'm not saying we necessarily haven't been visited by alien spacecraft. It's just that the evidence for it is, as Carl Sagan put it, "crummy".

[Goblin]

That part could be. Its not made up that he is in deep **** with our goverment. He could get 77 years in jail picking up bars of soap.




I am skeptical of several things contained in that article. First, I find it hard to believe without evidence that he broke into a government network in the manner he described in the interview. That "empty password" hack sounds more like tired internet lore. Then there is the business with the Java app he used to down sample an image to 4-bit color until his connection was cut off by some mysterious "hand" but couldn't show anyone because he didn't save a copy of the image to his hard drive......and so on. That all sounds sort of, well....made up.

What do you think?

[Goblin]

Hacking is not as difficult as you think. If you knew what tools to use you too could learn to hack. Most people don't want to risk jail so goverment computers are something you don't want to even attempt to hack.

The java app is just like PC anywhere software. What you see on your screen is an exact copy of the remote screen. You can control the other cpu, using its mouse, load apps etc. It works on 56K but is slow in response. 4 bit color is the mode you would use for 56k. I have 6Mbit cable and use 256 colors so it wont be as laggy feeling. All very common stuff nothing strange about it.


I am skeptical of several things contained in that article. First, I find it hard to believe without evidence that he broke into a government network in the manner he described in the interview. That "empty password" hack sounds more like tired internet lore. Then there is the business with the Java app he used to down sample an image to 4-bit color until his connection was cut off by some mysterious "hand" but couldn't show anyone because he didn't save a copy of the image to his hard drive......and so on. That all sounds sort of, well....made up.

What do you think?

[vonmazur]

Whenever I see or hear this stuff, the "Dive Alarm" goes off.....metaphorically speaking of course.....When I was a kid in the fifties, the supposed aliens warned us about "Nuk-a-lur weapons", now they are pushing a Eco-themed (Disaster) message...(Or sometimes they start up the "Free Energy", starving Seniors, or "flap du Jour" thing..) I wonder if any of these guys ever read Carl Jung???

Just once, I'd like to see a whackamundo/contactee/researcher/nut case, come up with something totally original, not reflecting mass psychosis.....

Dale in Ala