Best Books of All Time [Archive]

Josh

2006-Feb-28, 04:31 AM

So many books, so little time!

- When I was a bit younger I read all of the Conan books. They were vivid and heroic. Those books completely drew me in and the words came alive. They were originally written by Robert E Howard but there have been a plethora of authors since. I might pick them up and have another read though.

- Jostine Gaarder's books are also pretty good. I particularly liked his book The Solitaire Mystery. A great philisophical journey within a journey within a journey.

- On the more scientific/engineering side of things I really enjoyed reading Ben Rich's Skunk Works. Has great tales about the design, creation and testing of the U2 spy plane and the F-117A.

- Mario Puzo's books are great too. Actually, I've only read the Mafia based ones. The Sicilian is probably my favourite of his books followed by The Last Don.

- The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera is just brilliantly written. I have trouble reading it now with all the notes i made in the margins.

- I think I'll stop there .. but let's not forget ... The Pokey Little Puppy.

I don't like books that take too long to get into. There's another book called The Day After Tomorrow (nothing to do with the movie) in which the main plot is set in motion in the first one and half pages. Most books take a couple of chapters to get there. that was pretty damn gripping.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-Feb-28, 04:38 AM

I havent seen you around Josh.

But i want anyone who suggests books to keep in mind that im just 14. i dont want to read a book that is so confusing, or full of big words.

Beowolf

2006-Feb-28, 05:06 AM

- On the more scientific/engineering side of things I really enjoyed reading Ben Rich's Skunk Works. Has great tales about the design, creation and testing of the U2 spy plane and the F-117A.

Great book, I loved the Blowing up Burbank chapter.

snarkophilus

2006-Feb-28, 05:42 AM

My favourite story of all time is still the Three Little Pigs. It's not really a book, though. Lewis Carroll's The Hunting of the Snark is up there, but that's sort of a really long poem, so again, I'm not sure if it counts.

How does one pick a single favourite book? Sheesh. I'll just give you a set of lists of my favourites in a variety of genres.

For someone 14 years old, in the sci-fi/fantasy niche, I highly recommend Piers Anthony's Xanth series (I still read them -- Demons Don't Dream comes to mind as a good starting point), anything by Heinlen (Stranger in a Strange Land, especially, but they're all good), and Asimov's Foundation series. Larry Niven wrote a bunch of good things, too, but they're all rather different, so you have to try a couple series before you find the right fit. The Hitchhiker's Guide series is also really good. I used to read the Dragonlance books, but I can't stomach them any more.

For mystery, go with Agatha Christie (And Then There Were None), or Lillian Jackson Braun (I can't pick a particular one). I really liked The Da Vinci Code, the Bourne novels, and the James Bond books, too. Arthur Conan Doyle has one of the most pleasing writing styles of all time -- The Lost World is a thing of beauty.

There are only four horror books I've ever liked that were not compilations of H.P. Lovecraft stories. Two are by Kim Harrison. They're seemingly standard vampire/witch/werewolf fare, but they draw from such a variety of styles (even cyber-punk and Old West styles) that they're fun. The characters are engaging, too. I'll read the third book in that series when it comes in to the library. Steven King wrote Eyes of the Dragon, and I rather liked that, even though I hated everything else of his. Interview With a Vampire was good, too, but the movie was better.

If you're into adventure, now, Beowulf is the greatest story of all time. Canterbury Tales is pretty good, but it's Middle English poetry, and therefore time-consuming to read. Fortunately, you can read all the tales more or less independently. The Conan books are good, as are Burroughs' Mars books. Jules Verne is hit and miss, but The Desert of Ice is not to be missed. Gulliver's Travels also sticks out in my head as being good, though I can't remember much of it at all. Michael Crichton's books are good except for Prey, which is awful, and Disclosure, which is passable at best. The Great Train Robbery and Eaters of the Dead are both relatively short, but are two of my favourites.

And there's one book that sort of defies categorization: Neil Gaiman's American Gods. Highly recommended, if you're not too squeamish. The only description I can give is that it's brilliantly orchestrated, and also contains some very deep ideas.

I could go on forever... sorry I couldn't pick a clear winner. :) Try Beowulf; if you can't manage that, try Stranger in a Strange Land, which will help you grok the word "grok," something that seems useless but is invaluable in certain situations later in life.

mickal555

2006-Feb-28, 09:32 AM

I havent seen you around Josh.

But i want anyone who suggests books to keep in mind that im just 14. i dont want to read a book that is so confusing, or full of big words.

Tommorow when the war begain By John Marsden was a book I really enjoyed when I was 13/14....
The harry potter books are OK too...

Remember:
NEVER judge a book by it's cover(the covers are always really lame...)

Melusine

2006-Feb-28, 10:02 AM

I havent seen you around Josh.

But i want anyone who suggests books to keep in mind that im just 14. i dont want to read a book that is so confusing, or full of big words.
What makes a book good? One that I finish! I won't bore you with what technically makes a book good, because what matters is that you like it and walk away with something...whether you learn something or connect with the characters in some way.

My suggestion to a young reader who isn't crazy about reading is to not bog yourself down with long books, and read about things that interest you. So, seeing that space and astronomy interests you, why not read some of the astronauts' books?

Lo and behold, A BAUTer reviewed Mike Lovell's "Flying to the Moon: An Astronaut's Story (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0374423563/qid=1141117659/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-0782770-0192836?s=books&v=glance&n=283155[/URL). I completely agree with the review. And it's written with a younger audience in mind, but it's not juvenile. I read it and thought it was great. Use Amazon's links to other books like that.

Space Shuttle experiences? R. Mike Mullane's "Do Your Ears Pop in Space? And 500 Other Surprising Questions About Space Travel" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471154040/qid=1141118728/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0782770-0192836?s=books&v=glance&n=283155[/URL) is written in a lighthearted style and it's hard to put down. You learn alot of facts from someone who has been up there three times.

Do you like nature adventure stories that are real and suspenseful? Something like Jon Krakauer's "Into Thin Air," (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385494785/sr=8-3/qid=1141118550/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-0782770-0192836?%5Fencoding=UTF8) is a real page-turner, and you learn a lot about Mount Everest. I saw the Everest IMAX movie after I read it, which made the movie that much more enthralling.

Another classic "wildlife" author is Jack London. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0940450054/qid=1141119318/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0782770-0192836?s=books&v=glance&n=283155[/URL) Can't go wrong there.

Other suggestions were good; I read Agatha Christie in grade school since I loved mysteries then.

Other books I had to read for class in junior high school were:

"War of the Worlds" by H.G. Wells
"Something Wicked" This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury (anything by Bradbury is easy reading, wordwise).
"Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes
"The Narnian Chronicles" by C.S. Lewis

Let's see, apparently I read Stephen King's "Night Shift" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451170113/qid=1141119672/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-0782770-0192836?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) in 8th grade. Early Stephen King was pretty good, but I stopped reading him at some point.

A boy in 8th grade class gave me Michael Herr's "Dispatches" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679735259/qid=1141119839/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-0782770-0192836?s=books&v=glance&n=283155]) to read and I liked that. It's about the Vietnam war, and the language can be "rough," but it's hard to put down.

I read alot at 14, but I don't think Herman Hesse or such authors will be up your alley. People here can better recommend space-related books. What book did you enjoy reading, if any?
:)

Edit: darn hyphens!

Enzp

2006-Feb-28, 10:56 AM

Stay away from Nietzsche then, too.

I agree that a good book is one you finish. If it sucks, then quit reading it and try another. I have always loved to read, and I am to this day not a very good reader. I read slowly. And I am easily distracted. i find myself pondering word and sentence structuer and other things. But if I get caught up in it, then it is a really good book. I used to read sci fi when I was a kid, but I also loved science. I read books about the weather, and geology, and dinosaurs, and space flight, and aircraft, and who knows what else. I read an interesting book about the FBI once.

Reading is how you learn things. If "learn" sounds too much like "school work," then say "find stuff out." Does ANYTHING interest you? How better to find out more about it than by reading. You can watch shows on the History channel or something, but that only goes so far. I am fascinated by World War 2, and watched the sinking of the Bismark story again yesterday, but you will get a lot more about it in the books written on the topic. A book is how you get to know more about something.

Nothing wrong with pictuer books either. Liek animals? Planty of books about them, and I don't mean "Old Yeller." Though that might be interesting too. I love to see the variations of animals and how they are grouped. How they are related. Zebras are a variant of horses. And look at the progression of species from weasel, through otters, sea lions, seals, walrus, etc.

Or consider evolution. Whales were originally land animals, then they evolved for life in the sea. Read an Ernst Mayer book. I study things like the ancient Egyptians, and teh Mayans. I have taken college course in paleontology. I love to read about our ancestors. What were they like, and how did they become us? By the same token I also took college courses in aerial photo interpretation. I have read books on all of those things.

If natural science is not your thing, technology might be. How are airplanes put together? Or maybe submarines? Or how have jet fighters evolved over the last fifty years?

I started my life long interest in electronics fifty years ago. I started with a simple crystal radio kit, but moved on from there, and by the time I got to high school, I knew a great deal of electronics, all self learned from various books.

But most of that is non-fiction. I mostly read non-fiction. I read the occasional scifi book, but something like CLancy holds no interest for me. But that is the beauty of books, there are books about ANYTHING you could possibly be interested in, and what I like and what you like don't have to be remotely the same. My wife reads almost exclusively mustery books. Maybe that is why she is so ignorant. (Oh sorry dear, I meant "important", yeah, that's it.)

But fiction is a story. Ever see an exciting movie? It was written. It was a book first, or at least almost a book - it was a script. Maybe something like Moby Dick is too dated to enjoy. I know I had to read a couple DIckens books in high school, and boy did I hate it. I still have zero use for Dickens. I am sure part of it is the antiquated writing style. But there are planty of contemporary authors. You want to read about space ships, or cowboys, or sailors, or even animals - there are stories about them.

Big huge heavy books may not be for you. Nothing wrong with learning new words by the way. Certainly at 14 you can't be saying to yourself "I know all the words I'll ever need, so I don't want to learn any more." But maybe Plato isn't a place to start, and perhaps James Joyce can be left for another lifetime.

I like short stories. I'd rather have a collection of 25 short scifi stories than one long saga. Short stories are around in any area of writing, not just scifi.

And even non-fiction can be episodic - like a collection of short stories. I enjoyed Sagan's The Demon Haunted World, and each chapter had a value by itself. You could read one chapter and then set it down for a few days.

Some kids will give up sleep to read an 800 page HArry Potter book at one sitting. Too much for me.

And I don't speak ill of magazines - there are certainly no shortage of them on ANY topic you can imagine. I like National Geographic a lot - covers anything from ANdromeda to Zambia. Great pictures of everything in the world. I like Scientific American - science for the interested layman. Your library has magazines of many types. I also read esoteric technical journals, but that is another story. But whether it is fast cars, photography, archaeology, model railroads, investing, music, or who knows what, there are publications that cover it. I actually had to give up quite a few subscriptions, I was spending too much time reading them all!! SO I no longer read Archaeology or Biblical Archaelogical Review, nor FLying, nor Air and Space, top name a few. But good mags all.

It is a big world out there, and all of it is written about in print.

Tog

2006-Feb-28, 11:15 AM

When I was in school in the mid '80s we had a few books that we were required to read. The only two I ever finished were the Hobbit and Call of the Wild (which I read twice). I got about 2 pages into Lord of the Flies, about 6 pages into Hiroshima and can't even recall the others that were required reading over a 6 year span. I think one was Animal Farm. The point here, is that a book is only good if it good to you. Those three books I mentioned that I didn't read are probably really great books. I know they're famous and deal with a lot of issues that were as important when they were written as they are now. I just didn't like being told to read them.

Since I got out of school, I've read a lot more. Mainly becasue I get to choose what I read. I've always loved mysteries, and I have a big colection of Agatha Christie paperbacks. (Oh, I did finish Hound of the Baskervilles too, but since that was in the 5th grade, I think it may have been something I found, not an assignment). I've read all 6 Harry Potter books and eagerly await the 7th. I have read the 6 books in the Hitchhiker's Guide trillogy at least three times and wold reccomend them to anyone.

Two other Douglas Adams books are Dirk Nightshade's Holistic Detctive Agency, and the sequel, The Long, Dark Tea Time of the Soul. he main character in both, Dirk, is connected to the universe on the quantum level, yet it's explained in a way that nearly anyone can understand. I know I've seen a line from one of the boks on here as a sig. ANother good one is the Starship Titanic which was thought up by Adams, but only as a computer game. He decided it needed to be based ona book, so he got Terry Gilliam from Monty Python to actually write the book.

Another book I really liked was House of Leaves. This was written by the brother of the singer POE. It is a really dark story, probably best suited for adults, and very hard to read. It's the story... brace yourself...

Written from the point of view of a guy (Johnny) who found notes written by a second guy (Zumpano) about a film made by a third guy (Navidson) about the odd things going on in Navidson's house. The main part of the story is what was peiced together from Zumpano's notes, but the bottom of nearly every page is filled with footnotes from Johnny, many of which have nothing to do with the story in a direct way, but instead describe how the story is affecting him. Add to that the fact that as Navidson explores the odd hallway that just appeard in his wall the text on the page is formatted to match the description of the tunnel, and it's a really cool book. But VERY hard to read.

You might want to try this: Find a movie you liked that was based on a book, then read the book. Having an image of the action already in your head can make it easier to make the jump to other books. Some movies, like the Harry Potter series, follow the books very closely (well until the Goblet of Fire). Others, like the second Jurrasic Park book, bear practically no resemblence to the movie. (Okay there were dinosaurs, and an island, but that's about it.) Malcom, star of the second book DIED in the first one for crying out loud. Highlight to reveal spoiler, about the first JP book that really irked me in the second.

What have you had to read for school that you liked or didn't like? Why?

Melusine

2006-Feb-28, 12:22 PM

All quotes by Enzp:

I loved your post, Enzp, it really expressed the joy of reading. We seem to be on the same page (har, har).

Stay away from Nietzsche then, too.

:lol:

I agree that a good book is one you finish. If it sucks, then quit reading it and try another.

Good point. I used to feel that if I opened a book I had to finish it. Really, sometimes a book simply doesn't deserve one's time.

A book is how you get to know more about something.

And it's a direct experience with the author, unlike most movies made from books, which is a director's interpretation of someone else's story. It's just you and the author all alone with your perceptions and imagination. Good fiction with good characters communicates something about humanity. I'm more into non-fiction these days, however.

Nothing wrong with pictuer books either. Liek animals? Planty of books about them, and I don't mean "Old Yeller." Though that might be interesting too. I love to see the variations of animals and how they are grouped. How they are related. Zebras are a variant of horses. And look at the progression of species from weasel, through otters, sea lions, seals, walrus, etc.

Another good point. A book I loved that I read in high school was "Among Animals of Africa," by Bernhard Grzimek. I read a bunch of Jaques Cousteau, especially about sharks. Sailing around the world stories, too, like "Dove," Naomi Watts, "Fastnet," et al. Non-fiction adventure stories of early explorers read like fiction...stuff like "The Endurance" about Ernest Shackleton's Antarctica expedition.

My wife reads almost exclusively mustery books. Maybe that is why she is so ignorant. (Oh sorry dear, I meant "important", yeah, that's it.)

:naughty:

Big huge heavy books may not be for you. Nothing wrong with learning new words by the way. Certainly at 14 you can't be saying to yourself "I know all the words I'll ever need, so I don't want to learn any more."
And you never do stop saying that. I read Robert Hughes's "The Fatal Shore" (some Aussies might know that one), at 20 years old. I dated all my books, and I have three pages of words I wrote down that I didn't know or had forgotten; words like prelapsarian, nugatory, sacerdotal, farrago, etc. Oh, it was a struggle! But that's what I would do--as I was reading I'd jot down words I didn't know and later look them up. It's much too taxing to do it while reading, so don't get bogged down with vocabulary.

I like short stories. I'd rather have a collection of 25 short scifi stories than one long saga. Short stories are around in any area of writing, not just scifi.

You stole the words out of my mouth. I forgot to mention that. Actually, to me the short story is, imho, the most difficult genre of writing. So compact--every word has to count. I'm one of the few females I know that really likes Hemingway's short story collection. The Finca Vigian Edition is the best. That's another good suggestion, Enzp.

And I don't speak ill of magazines - there are certainly no shortage of them on ANY topic you can imagine.
I know some people who read only periodicals. Hey, that's better than nothing. There's much to read online, too, but I can't carry my computer around everywhere, and I'm still partial to tree pulp.

It is a big world out there, and all of it is written about in print.
Gillianren said the printing press was one of the greatest inventions, or something to that effect. It really was. :)

gethen

2006-Feb-28, 01:51 PM

The Left Hand of Darkness by LeGuin, of course. It's a science fiction novel with everything.

The things that make me love a book are characters that are real, and not cardboard cut-outs (cough, cough,Grisham,cough, cough), a plot that challenges you but it not so convoluted you can't follow it, and a writer who thinks of writing about things no one else has. I second that post about Gaiman's American Gods for all three of those reasons. He's one of the best writers currently out there IMHO.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Feb-28, 02:10 PM

A couple each in my favorite topics:

<> Physics. A fun and relatively easy read is Fear of Physics. (There's a cow on the cover and it starts out with "Imagine the cow is a sphere.") Atoms of Silence was also a good early one on physics for me.

<> Politics. Power & Terror by Noam Chomsky. He cuts thru all the bull with straightforward, politically incorrect, and very objective analysis. Peter O'Rourke's Parliamant of Whores, and also his Republican Party Reptile. Not what you might think. Very insightful, and very funny. A couple others that serve as good starter material are Why Nations Go to War and Who's Running America.

<> Social Commentary. Anything by Joan Didion, but I especially liked The White Album and Salvador. They are great insights into the dilemmas of human behavior, but are easily within your reach. The Age of Missing Information is a great commentary on TV in America.

Some of these might be a bit of a challenge, but since you have come to this place, my guess is you are up to it. Currently reading Genome, Darwin's Dangerous Idea, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, Get Real, and just picked up It's Just a Theory. For you, I'd highly recommend Genome.

Why read? Others have addressed that very well. For me, the biggest reason is just that I find it uplifting, informative, and entertaining.

Not meaning to divert the thread, but the biggest thing that has come to me recently as I've been devouring books on biology, genetics, and evolution is: How in the world can intelligent people buy into the "alternative theories?"

Oh yeah, that's Shermer's book.

Swift

2006-Feb-28, 02:44 PM

Alice in Wonderland ranks high up with me. It was read to me as a bedtime story as a child (that explains a lot ;) ) and I have re-read it as an adult. I have an anotated version, with anotations by Martin Gardner (writer for Scientific American) which explains all the inside jokes and puzzles.

Similarly, I love all of Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels books (who would have guessed ;) ).

There is too much science fiction to name.

A Brief History of Time is a classic.

Moose

2006-Feb-28, 02:47 PM

Art of War by Sun Tzu. There are a number of translations of mixed quality, but I've become fond of the James Clavell translation. To the translation he contributes some analysis and anecdotes from Sun Tzu's time. Useful for context.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Feb-28, 02:52 PM

Then there is Alice in Quantumland.

Melusine

2006-Feb-28, 03:46 PM

Then there is Alice in Quantumland.
I have a book titled "Malice in Wonderland." It's a very strangely written allegory on communism. Picked it up at a tag sale once. (Can't find it on the web.)

While searching, I saw this site for science fiction. (http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/SF-Index.html) They have huge lists of...lots of things, in case anyone is interested.

Fram

2006-Feb-28, 03:51 PM

"Coraline" is a good Neil Gaiman book as well.
Terry Pratchett is always fun, both his more juvenile work (Johhny and the Bomb, Johnny and the Dead) as the Discworld series.
If you prefer to read some more adolescent books as well, I enjoyed the works of Cynthia Voigt, and a historic novel by Rosemary Sutcliff is still agreeable. Anthony Horowitz is good as well, especially if you don't want you books to be too thick and if you're a more inexperienced reader (although they stay fun otherwise as well).
Lord Of the Rings (Tolkien) is one of those books you either love to death or stop reading because you are bored. I love it to death.
And many many more, of course. Larry Niven may be a good introduction to the world of science fiction.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Feb-28, 04:04 PM

I have a book titled "Malice in Wonderland." It's a very strangely written allegory on communism. Picked it up at a tag sale once. (Can't find it on the web.)

While searching, I saw this site for science fiction. (http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/SF-Index.html) They have huge lists of...lots of things, in case anyone is interested.

"Malice . . ." sounds like something I could sink into.

Capitalism is where man takes advantage of his fellow man. Communism is the other way around.
- source unknown (by me anyway)

Eric Vaxxine

2006-Feb-28, 05:27 PM

Quotable Quotes - A Readers Digest mini book.

Gillianren

2006-Feb-28, 07:44 PM

Gillianren said the printing press was one of the greatest inventions, or something to that effect. It really was. :)

I said Gutenberg was, if you counted inventors, one of the greatest scientists of all time, but I do agree with how you phrased it as well.

Tog: Dirk Gently, at least according to the copy on my bookshelf.

Let us start with something of a confession: I don't understand people who say they don't like to read. I really don't. I've been reading since I was two, and in all that time, I've only ever once considered a movie to be better than the book it was based on, and very seldom is it even as good. (That once was The Lost World, the Crichton version, but that's more of an indictment of the book than a compliment of the movie.)

However, liking the movie often means you will like the book, even if you're one of those odd people who don't like the book as much. The Princess Bride is one of the best movie adaptations I've ever seen, and the book is so very much better. The Harry Potter books--the second movie was nowhere near as good as the second book; I've not met anyone who's read them and doesn't think the second movie was substandard. (Too much flying car.)

Allow me to second (or third, or fourth) the idea of reading what interests you. I'm in the process of cataloging my books (which, of course, calls for finding them all first), and I have tons of sci-fi/fantasy (those Dirk Gently books are why they're all lumped together) and tons of nonfiction, in addition to my enormous Stephen King and Dorothy L. Sayers collections. I still have tons of children's books. (Somewhere around two hundred, I suspect, once I finish digging them all out of wherever they've ended up.) I have a section called "reference," which is things like The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern and The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer--books about other books, or about TV shows, or Kenneth C. Davis's marvelous Don't Know Much About the Bible.

I could list books I consider great for days--and have!--but if you read one and don't like it, you may decide you don't trust my taste. It's also okay to like different books than I do, I promise. My best friend reads Dickens but not King, Hemingway but not Lackey. We get along anyway. Really.

All of that being said, The Eyes of the Dragon is some of the best fantasy ever written, as far as I'm concerned. I'm madly in love with Lord Peter Wimsey, the detective in Dorothy L. Sayers's mysteries. Sue Grafton also writes very good mysteries. The Chronicles of Narnia. The collected works of both Bill Bryson and Terry Pratchett. Anything by Kenneth C. Davis. And, of course, Bad Astronomy, lest we forget.

Edit to add: oh, yeah, as to your age--by the time I was fourteen, I was reading Dune and such. I know a girl who first read Lord of the Rings when she was nine.

TriangleMan

2006-Feb-28, 08:34 PM

My advice for Knowledge Seeker is not to worry about any hype as to whether a book is "great", "classic" etc. Enjoyment of a book is subjective so if you start reading a "classic" and not really enjoying it, put it down and read something else. I've gone to the library and taken out many well-known books only to find that they were not that interesting to me, yet have found many books that weren't popular that I really enjoyed. In the end it is all up to what you like.

For example I have (partially) read two books by Dan Brown and found them annoying. I could only get 3/4 of the way through Angels and Demons before I stopped reading it. I dislike Shakespeare but love some, but not all, works by Charles Dickens. I got through about 30 pages of Heart of Darkness but couldn't put down the Lord of the Rings. Liked Frankenstein, yawned through The Great Gatsby and I don't know why everyone thinks Catcher in the Rye is great.

So go to your local library, take out a bunch of books that might be interesting whether fiction or non-fiction, and start reading them. Stop reading if the book doesn't interest you after a few chapters and get another one. I've found by doing this that I enjoy reading educational theory (even though I don't have kids), ancient Japanese literature, and travel books. :)

Swift

2006-Feb-28, 09:04 PM

Parrothead

2006-Feb-28, 09:33 PM

I'll agree with Triangleman, go to your local library and browse around. Read the backs of books, find what interests you. Another idea, may be short story collections. Stephen King has a few, while I was on a "legal thriller" kick, I came across a book of short stories, written by different writers of the genre. It introduced me to some authors I had never heard of before, I went on to read some of their longer works. Try a variety of genres and subjects, focusing on what sounds interesting to you and take it from there.

ToSeek

2006-Feb-28, 10:30 PM

A good book for me is one where I find the characters and their circumstances interesting, where I want to spend time with these people or in this place or situation. I may also like a book because it's particularly perceptive or well-written. Certainly many classics fall into the latter category.

Van Rijn

2006-Feb-28, 11:05 PM

When I started 4th grade, I wasn't exactly illiterate, but my reading skills were extremely poor for that age. Part of the problem was that the stuff they had to read was just so darn boring.

Two things happened: My mother sat with me 15 minutes a day for reading exercises, and for my birthday, my sister sent me a Tom Swift Jr. book with what looked like a flying saucer on the front cover. The one-on-one reading work had given me some confidence and I really couldn't pass up a story about a flying saucer!

It took me about 3 months to finish that book. There were a lot of words I didn't understand, and it was hard going, sometimes I took a break, but I loved it too! A whole new world had opened and it was so different from TV.

So, the next Tom Swift book took about 4 days to finish. The next was finished in about a day (of course, these are fairly short books with large text and fairly simple text). Then I started branching out to all sorts of fiction and non-fiction books, though science and science fiction were always my favorites. Within a couple of years, I was well acquainted with Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov, Tolkien and so on.

I can't picture what it would be like if I hadn't experienced all those worlds, real and imagined.

1) What is your favorite book and why? Just what makes the book something good to read and not a waste of time?

I have a lot of favorite books. A couple that come to mind: A Wrinkle in Time by L'Engle and Have Space Suit, Will Travel by Heinlein. In each case, I really liked the characters, both had smart, young people that could make a difference.

2) When do you know you like a book? Im sorry for asking such a dumb question, but is it like a striking moment? Ive read books in school like to kill a mocking bird, and award winning books like the giver, and all, but what makes a book; .........good?

Usually (and I'm talking about fiction here), I can tell within 20 pages whether I'm going to like a book or not. If a book grabs me, so that I've forgotten that I'm reading, but am experiencing the author's world, that is a good book. I don't usually go beyond 50 pages if I'm still thinking "This is a book."

Non-fiction is more about how well the author explains himself and if it is an interesting subject.

Gillianren

2006-Feb-28, 11:11 PM

Gillianren, I generally agree that the books are better than the movies, but there was a different exception, at least for me. I saw the movie "The World According to Garp" before I read the book and liked the movie. I then read the book; I guess in an abstract sense it was well written, but emotionally I hated it and found it extremely depressing.

I've never seen nor read it, so I'll have to get back to you about it. I'm perfectly willing to accept that there are other exceptions; The Lost World just happens to be the only one of my experience.

And TriangleMan (do you hate Particle Man?), I'm with you on Catcher in the Rye. Here's a hint, at least to me, about what doesn't make a great book: when you spend the entire book wanting to kick the main character.

mike alexander

2006-Mar-01, 01:21 AM

I know I like a book when I finish it and want to start reading all over again. I'm a great re-reader, and have been for decades.

For myself I don't have a 'favorite book'; I probably have hundreds.

As for picking a book, I'll make one suggestion - pick a short one. Even today, I think too many writers work by the pound. Dig around a bit, and try the library, as has been suggested.

But here's the hard part - try to give the writer some time. I mean that some stories just don't grab you in the first paragraph, or even the first chapter. You should give the author a chance to draw you in.

Moose

2006-Mar-01, 02:10 AM

- Mario Puzo's books are great too. Actually, I've only read the Mafia based ones. The Sicilian is probably my favourite of his books followed by The Last Don.

I'm actually reading The Last Don right now. I'm enjoying it. I spotted it during a quick dig at the local SPCA charity book sale last month. The next one is coming up next week, and I plan on stopping by again during my lunch break, perhaps on friday, for a more thorough browse.

Josh

2006-Mar-01, 02:34 AM

A charity sale is where I found The Last Don too, along with The Fourth K (which I haven't yet read), Omerta and The Sicilian. Maybe a third of the books I own are from second hand book stores, street stalls and jumble sales. There's a certain something about second hand books ...

JustinK

2006-Mar-01, 04:05 AM

I normally don't have a specific moment where I think to myself, "Man, this book is great". I guess I know I am really enjoying a book when I find myself consistently choosing to read it instead of doing the other things I normally do in day-to-day life.

I'm not sure that I could pick out specific favorites, as I normally get a bit from each book I read, and have never thought to myself something like "Wow, that book just changed my life" or "Wow, that's the best book I ever read". Anyway, so I'll give some books from a few different genres which I remember enjoying. Regarding fiction, I'd say most anything by Dostoevsky (though The Idiot got a bit tedious), and stuff by J.R.R. Tolkien. I enjoy reading history, but the only person who comes to mind at the moment as someone I really enjoy is Glanville Downey. For philosophy, I'd say G.K. Chesterton (though I guess many people wouldn't consider him a philosopher); Nietzsche's always entertaining. For theology, probably St. Gregory the Theologian, St. Justin Popovich, and St. Nicholas Cabasilas. For Current Events, probably Alexander Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago.

0Kelvin

2006-Mar-01, 04:52 AM

Ender's Game. I was about your age when I first started reading Orson Scott Card. Sci/Fi with a significant human eliment and political analysis.

Enzp

2006-Mar-01, 06:28 AM

Wow, some good thoughts going by.

I couldn't stand Gatsby. I tried to read both Lord of the Rings and DUne, and had to put them down. I found then to just drone on and on. But I say that not to disagree with the others who like them, but to point out that no book is loved by everyone. And it is perfectly OK to not like some book that just "everyone" loves to death. You are not obligated to like something because it is popular.

I had forgotten Tom Swift. I read the original Tom Swift books - from maybe the 1930s? And I liked them, but I really like the Tom Swift Junior series when I was young. Always happy when new one came out. I guess these days there have been a couple more generations of Tom Swift. In any case, they are one of many series of books aimed at a young reader. Easy to read, and an engaging story line.

I liked Lord of the Flies, sorry. As a pretty nerdy kid growing up, perhaps I related to Piggy.

Liked the Caine Mutiny, liked Up Periscope.

My father gave me a paperback copy of Mr Roberts, and it was the first book I read that made me laugh out loud while reading it. I enjoyed the movie version too.

And to Gillian, I just finished reading Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. I enjoyed it thoroughly, I find I like the writer. It is not so much a guide as presenting a case.

Tog

2006-Mar-01, 07:41 AM

Tog: Dirk Gently, at least according to the copy on my bookshelf.

:o Bah. I even do that when talk about the book. I have no clue where I got "Dirk Nighshade" from, but it sure seems ingrained.

mid

2006-Mar-01, 12:11 PM

Coincidentally I threw an All-Time Top Five Novels together for another thread on another site recently, so I'll copy it here. As you can guess from the title, "High Fidelity" isn't particularly far outside it. Anyway, they go something like this (and no, these five aren't in any order)

Jeff Noon - "Vurt". It's just a complete headrush of possibility from start to finish, like a mutant offspring of Alice In Wonderland and Trainspotting set in an alternative Manchester. For that matter, I don't think Noon has done a bad book, so I'm picking his first almost out of habit.

Iain Banks - "Complicity". Not for the faint hearted, it's again a taut, short book that is at turns funny, horrible and just outright brilliant. The thematic device of telling the murders in the second person is amazingly disturbing.

Douglas Copeland - "Microserfs". Its a beautiful, dreamlike book that I can easily identify with. It does an even better job than his "Generation X" of capturing a moment in time, as well.

Neal Stephenson - "Cryptonomicon". Yes, it's 900 pages. Every one of the wonderful, even the infamous chapter devoted to the optimum procedure for cereal consumption. Probably Number 1 if I had to pick one.

Mary Doria Russell - "The Sparrow". Hmm. Look, it's just utterly outstanding, you'll have to trust me. Saying much more would spoil things too much. Just try to stop your head exploding at the end, is all.

ToSeek

2006-Mar-01, 03:45 PM

But here's the hard part - try to give the writer some time. I mean that some stories just don't grab you in the first paragraph, or even the first chapter. You should give the author a chance to draw you in.

I'm normally a good reader, but I am almost literally incapable of reading a story that doesn't seem to have any sort of focus or reason why this story is being told made evident early on.

ToSeek

2006-Mar-01, 03:46 PM

Mary Doria Russell - "The Sparrow". Hmm. Look, it's just utterly outstanding, you'll have to trust me. Saying much more would spoil things too much. Just try to stop your head exploding at the end, is all.

It's the best science fiction evocation of a clash between cultures that I've ever read. 'Nuff said.

Josh

2006-Mar-01, 09:08 PM

I'm normally a good reader, but I am almost literally incapable of reading a story that doesn't seem to have any sort of focus or reason why this story is being told made evident early on.

That's exactly why I couldn't finish Catcher in the Rye. Was there a point? At all?

ToSeek

2006-Mar-01, 09:10 PM

That's exactly why I couldn't finish Catcher in the Rye. Was there a point? At all?

I'm told that you have to read it when you're in high school or else not at all. I missed my chance, so I haven't given it a try.

The Mangler

2006-Mar-01, 09:43 PM

I read it (because I had to) in either high school or middle school, can't really remember which.

I can't say I enjoyed it very much. I wouldn't pick up that book and deicde to read it unless I had to. I'm a Clancy fan :). Catcher in the Rye just isn't for me...

Ilya

2006-Mar-01, 11:39 PM

.For someone 14 years old, in the sci-fi/fantasy niche, I highly recommend Piers Anthony's Xanth series (I still read them -- Demons Don't Dream comes to mind as a good starting point), anything by Heinlen (Stranger in a Strange Land, especially, but they're all good), and Asimov's Foundation series. Larry Niven wrote a bunch of good things, too, but they're all rather different, so you have to try a couple series before you find the right fit. The Hitchhiker's Guide series is also really good. I used to read the Dragonlance books, but I can't stomach them any more..
Agree with all these recommendations, but must point out I LOVED Heinlein from about 14 until about 26. Then I realized that human beings don't act that way! Now I see a SF book adveritsed as being "in tradition of Heinlein," I probably will not read it. But for teenagers, he is great.

Now that I think of it, here is a book "in tradition of Heinlein" I do recommend -- Higher Education (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812538900/sr=8-2/qid=1141256053/ref=sr_1_2/002-5207266-3492847?%5Fencoding=UTF8) by Jerry Pournelle and Charles Sheffield.

I would also recommend Pandora's Star (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345479211/qid=1141256149/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-5207266-3492847?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) and Judas Unchained (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345461665/qid=1141256149/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-5207266-3492847?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) by Peter Hamilton, except Knowledge_Seeker says he does not seek BIG WORDS... :) Seriously, my biggest recommendation is: lose your fear of big words ASAP.

N C More

2006-Mar-01, 11:59 PM

The Count of Monte Cristo, Jane Eyre, Pride and Prejudice, David Copperfield, Tom Jones, The Three Musketeers, Jude the Obscure

Science Fiction: Asimov'sThe Foundation Series Niven's Ringworld

Van Rijn

2006-Mar-02, 12:00 AM

Agree with all these recommendations, but must point out I LOVED Heinlein from about 14 until about 26. Then I realized that human beings don't act that way! Now I see a SF book adveritsed as being "in tradition of Heinlein," I probably will not read it. But for teenagers, he is great.

Now you have me curious - don't act what way?

Stranger in a Strange Land wouldn't be my first Heinlein choice. It is a great novel, but not, in my opinion, until somone has a bit of familiarity with Heinlien. I'd go with (previously mentioned) "Have Space Suit, Will Travel," also "Tunnel in the Sky," and "A Door Into Summer."

I'll make a special note that I would avoid "Farnham's Freehold" until I got a little older. I'm sure it had more impact in the Cold War era, but I read that one pretty young and had nightmares.

Actually, if I was a first time Heinlein reader, I wouldn't start with any of the "adult" (or just plain thick) Heinlein novels.

Now that I think of it, here is a book "in tradition of Heinlein" I do recommend -- Higher Education (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812538900/sr=8-2/qid=1141256053/ref=sr_1_2/002-5207266-3492847?%5Fencoding=UTF8) by Jerry Pournelle and Charles Sheffield.

That was pretty good.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-Mar-02, 12:53 AM

Ender's Game. I was about your age when I first started reading Orson Scott Card. Sci/Fi with a significant human eliment and political analysis.

Funny you should mention that. I read that book in school. And because of the book, interestingly enough, that is why i am on Baut.

When i finished that book, i went in search for a website where they debated about politics (as the kids did in the book). then i thought why not go to a website where they talked about something i enjoyed, like astronomy?

but i enjoyed that book.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-Mar-02, 12:59 AM

For someone 14 years old, in the sci-fi/fantasy niche,.

im not sure when i said that i wanted a sci-fi type book...

Well to be more clear, i just want a book that i can enjoy, a book that after reading it, i will not regret. I want to read a book that is famous or not. just a variety of books

im really confused, because as i go back through these posts im, compiling a list of books to get from the library, but there are so many suggestions, that now i dont feel like reading any more posts.

im sorry if im confusing a lot of you

Enzp

2006-Mar-02, 06:13 AM

I think the overall point we all make here is that there are no rules to what you should or should not read. If you don't like a book, put it down and move on. ANd above all don't limit your options. No one likes everything, and there is no book that everyone likes.

NC More - I can see we will not be raiding each other's libraries.

Jude the Obscure? Oh lord. I high school I was forced to read Jude the Obscure and Bleak House. Even the titles were dreary.

jrkeller

2006-Mar-02, 06:32 AM

Some personal favorites, though I doubt that they would qualify as the best books of all time.

Le Morte D'Arthur - Sir Thomas Malory
Beowulf
Theogony - Hesoid
The Aeneid - Virgil

More contemporary

A Man on the Moon - Chaikin

I also like the Greatest Generation book by Tom Brokaw, probably becuase they remind of me of many of my relatives and neighbors (both now and growing up).

Gillianren

2006-Mar-02, 06:39 AM

That's exactly why I couldn't finish Catcher in the Rye. Was there a point? At all?

Not so's I noticed, but my entire English class (junior year in high school) except for two people went on about how marvelous it was. My best friend at the time sided with me, and another friend didn't say anything until I mentioned in conversation five years later, at which point he admitted he hadn't liked it, either.

And Knowledge Seeker, you can ask five bookworms to name their favorite books and get a list of five hundred or more. That's one of the signs of bookworks; they like to talk about books they've read.

Enzp, my best friend informs me that Talk to the Hand is not as good, in part because she doesn't think a conversation like this one isn't possible through electronic means.

N C More

2006-Mar-02, 11:47 AM

NC More - I can see we will not be raiding each other's libraries.

Jude the Obscure? Oh lord. I high school I was forced to read Jude the Obscure and Bleak House. Even the titles were dreary.

I love Thomas Hardy! Far from the Maddning Crowd and Return of the Native are also wonderful. I love Dickens too, just about all of his works are great. Then again, I love Shakespeare...I guess it's a matter of taste?

TriangleMan

2006-Mar-02, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Josh
That's exactly why I couldn't finish Catcher in the Rye. Was there a point? At all?Not so's I noticed, but my entire English class (junior year in high school) except for two people went on about how marvelous it was.
I think Catcher was an exercise in being able to portray a mental breakdown by the narrator. Many people like it because for them it succeeded in getting you "into the mind" of a man falling apart. I just thought the narrator was a jerk.

In high school lots of people say they like a book only because it appears that others liked it. That peer pressure thing.

jrkeller

2006-Mar-02, 12:14 PM

I love Thomas Hardy! Far from the Maddning Crowd and Return of the Native are also wonderful. I love Dickens too, just about all of his works are great. Then again, I love Shakespeare...I guess it's a matter of taste?

You have to be the first person I know (other than teachers and professors) that likes Dickens. I have never been able to finish one of his stories.

I like Shakespeare's plays, but not his other works.

Laguna

2006-Mar-02, 12:19 PM

My all time favourites:

- "The Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follett
- "PS, I Love You" by Cecelia Ahern
- "The Swarm" by Frank Schatzing
- "Tod und Teufel" by Frank Schätzing (not sure if translated to english)
- "Retribution" by Jilliane P. Hoffman
- "The Time Traveler's Wife" by Audrey Niffenegger
- "The Physician" and "Shaman" both by Noah Gordon
- The Lord of the Rings
and if you like the medieval times:
- "The Children of the Grail", "Blood of Kings" and "The Crown of the World" all by Peter Berling.

Yes, I like thick books. :D

TriangleMan

2006-Mar-02, 12:24 PM

You have to be the first person I know (other than teachers and professors) that likes Dickens.

I posted that I like Dickens first!! :p

gwiz

2006-Mar-02, 01:46 PM

If you like historical fiction, try Patrick O'Brian, starting with Master and Commander. Really a continuous story spread over 20 books, fascinating detail of life in Napoleonic times, wonderful characters, and funny. A man's view of the world of Jane Austen, particularly Persuasion.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Mar-02, 01:59 PM

.

im not sure when i said that i wanted a sci-fi type book...

Well to be more clear, i just want a book that i can enjoy, a book that after reading it, i will not regret. I want to read a book that is famous or not. just a variety of books

im really confused, because as i go back through these posts im, compiling a list of books to get from the library, but there are so many suggestions, that now i dont feel like reading any more posts.

im sorry if im confusing a lot of you

I figured you would eventually feel that way. Asking this crowd for recommended reading is like going into the hardware store and asking for one of everything they carry.

But you got a list now - good luck and enjoy your choices.

darkhunter

2006-Mar-02, 02:11 PM

.

im not sure when i said that i wanted a sci-fi type book...

Well to be more clear, i just want a book that i can enjoy, a book that after reading it, i will not regret. I want to read a book that is famous or not. just a variety of books

im really confused, because as i go back through these posts im, compiling a list of books to get from the library, but there are so many suggestions, that now i dont feel like reading any more posts.

im sorry if im confusing a lot of youTry a Louis Lamour western or two--he had several short stories, and many of his novels are fairly short. He also had a simple, clear style of writing that's easy to read.

But at the end of the day it's entirely up to you as to what, if any, of our suggested books you try out.

I've seen some people in this thread say about not liking some books I enjoyed, and I've seen some books recommended I don't care for--each person has unique combinations of interests and tastes.

jrkeller

2006-Mar-02, 02:50 PM

I posted that I like Dickens first!! :p

Sorry,

It's been a long couple of weeks. We had layoffs a few weeks ago and as it typical, the amount of work is constant so we all end up working more.

Relmuis

2006-Mar-02, 03:06 PM

If I had to nominate a Best Book of All Time, I would choose Lord of the Rings, by Tolkien.

Why is this such a good story? Because the background feels real. That's because Tolkien was most meticulous in constructing (I would almost say researching) his background. The world of Middle Earth doesn't have just a surface; it has depth. I can't explain it any better, but you will know what I mean when you read it.

Read Lord of the Rings before you read The Hobbit, though. The Hobbit was intended for children, and it shows. And leave The Silmarillion until you have been made curious by the hints in Lord of the Rings alluding to eartier ages of the world. Otherwise The Silmarillion may seem pointless. After that, read Unfinished Tales, and the rest of The History of Middle Earth.

ToSeek

2006-Mar-02, 03:49 PM

- "The Time Traveler's Wife" by Audrey Niffenegger

That was a wonderful book.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Mar-02, 04:02 PM

Since we're still piling it on, might I suggest a comic book. The only comic I own, and the only one I've read since about age 8 - The Flaming Carrot.

Well, except for those Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.

Ah, bygone eras.

Gillianren

2006-Mar-02, 07:43 PM

- "The Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follett

I first read this one for my banned books contract in college, and I love it. It's one of a handful that I ended up buying. (Mostly, I read library books.) For the record, it was banned because they use Saxon terms for certain things. You know, the four letter ones? Also, there's some fairly graphic sex.

I am one of the rare people who loathes Lord of the Rings; I've never finished it. My sister gave my daughter The Hobbit, which I did like, for Christmas, and I wanted to take the kid aside and assure her that, no matter what Aunt Elaine said and no matter that her adopted mom and dad had liked LotR, it was okay if she didn't.

Laguna

2006-Mar-03, 12:22 AM

Also, there's some fairly graphic sex.
Uhhhh.
I guess in that case they would burn the Books by Peter Berling....

You know how I know that I like a book?
I know it when my wife shouts at me to put that thing aside so she can talk to me.... :-)

mike alexander

2006-Mar-03, 01:05 AM

To Seek wrote:

I'm normally a good reader, but I am almost literally incapable of reading a story that doesn't seem to have any sort of focus or reason why this story is being told made evident early on.

I used to be that way myself. I've sometimes forced myself to see where an author is going. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not.

Oh, and one great book: 'The Once and Future King', by TH White (four sequential stories in one volume).

Warning to younger readers; the legends of King Arthur were written for adults, Disney notwithstanding. 'The Sword in the Stone' is wonderful fun and evokes the middle ages in a way to make them truly engaging. The story turns much darker in 'The Queen of Air and Darkness' and 'The Ill-Made Knight', and gets downright brutal in 'A Candle in the Wind'. But the story of Arthur, a sort of Everyman who tries to make his nasty and vicious world better, is worth the trip. By the end of the final scene I'm always crying, and I've read it at least ten times.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-Mar-03, 05:26 AM

okay, ive taken into consideration all the books all of you have recommended, but how about the books on the banned list?

one of my teachers told me once that the books on the american banned list are the best ones.
-=-=-=-

now that i think about it, i really enjoy a psychological adventure like Ender's Game, or Life of Pi (which i really enjoyed in school). about about the lines of that....?

Enzp

2006-Mar-03, 07:26 AM

Laguna

2006-Mar-03, 08:35 AM

As non-US citicen, and as such not considering the mentioned books as hardcore ;) (for some people such things belongs to everyday life), are banned bookes also banned in bookstores or is that a library-only thing?

Fram

2006-Mar-03, 08:52 AM

I seem to remember that the whole "banned books" thing only means that some institution (a library, a chain of bookshops, a school, ...) has banned a book from its premises or asks for a ban. I don't think the US has many truly nationally banned books (certainly not the likes of "Pillars of the Earth"), if any. I know that the UK had some (certainly until the 70's, I believe), mainly pornographic books, and other countries had them as well, sometimes based on the Vatican's Index, or for political reasons ("Mein Kampf").

Van Rijn

2006-Mar-03, 09:37 AM

I seem to remember that the whole "banned books" thing only means that some institution (a library, a chain of bookshops, a school, ...) has banned a book from its premises or asks for a ban.

Or group that asks a school or library to ban it. Then, often as not, it makes the news with some agreeing and more buying the book.

I don't think the US has many truly nationally banned books (certainly not the likes of "Pillars of the Earth"), if any.

There were real government bans in the early part of the '20th century with the Postal Service actively stopping shipment. Then you had the Communist scare days where most publishers wouldn't dare publish certain things, a de facto ban. I'm not really aware of any government bans these days, except for some limits on publishing National Security secrets, some types of weapons plans or other obviously/extremely dangerous things.

As for books that have been banned, I've already mentioned "A Wrinkle In Time" - but don't expect a hot, juicy story. I read this when I was in 5th grade. Back then, I would have been shocked out of my mind by an episode of "Family Guy" and I would have gone catatonic watching "South Park."

Some books are banned because of sexual or other physical aspects, others for (perceived) religious issues, like "magic." "Wrinkle" fits in this category, and so does "Harry Potter." Sorry, but "Harry Potter" is bannable? Yeesh.

Another "banned" book that I liked that was a bit more adult (but nothing too extraordinary) was "Flowers for Algernon." Great book, but sad.

mid

2006-Mar-03, 12:29 PM

Sad? How can we suggest any other book is sad, when Jude The Obscure has been mentioned.

Don't get me wrong, Hardy was a great writer, but there really is no more depressing novel in the English Language.

N C More

2006-Mar-03, 12:42 PM

Don't get me wrong, Hardy was a great writer, but there really is no more depressing novel in the English Language.

So true, but then so is the human condition (often very sad). That's why I listed Jude the Obscure as being one of the greatest books. Along with Dickens, Hardy highlighted aspects of life that many chose simply not to look at, period. BTW, not all the books I see as being "great" are sad, but many are...such is life.

Relmuis

2006-Mar-03, 02:24 PM

reply to post 67

The works of psychiatrist Wilhelm Reich were banned in the United States, and were actually burned. Robert Anton Wilson describes witnessing this book-burning in one of his own books. And I think something similar happened to the works of Timothy Leary.

Gillianren

2006-Mar-03, 08:13 PM

Ah, but no book has been banned by US law (local bannings notwithstanding) in a very, very long time.

As someone who studied the subject for an entire quarter in college (read 115 books for it, too!), allow me to present some details.

We're all aware, I should think, that the First Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees freedom of speech and the press, but we should also be aware that people have been trying to find loopholes in that as long as there's been a US Constitution. (In I believe the 1920s, the movies were declared an industry and therefore not protected by the First Amendment. Not sure how that works.)

Since the great challenges of the early twentieth century (sending pornography through the mails being the usual charge), most bannings and challenges have been at the really, really local area--individual schools, in fact. Any book on the banned list (kept as current as possible by the American Library Association) is still available at most bookstores. However, there are certain groups passing around lists of books that are contrary to their own personal beliefs to have parents at schools around the country knock those books out--in effect, to institute a nation-wide ban one school at a time. Some books are challenged at public libraries (Heather Has Two Mommies and Daddy's Roommate at my local library, in fact), but that's apparently harder to do successfully. Nothing like the cry of "Won't someone protect the children?"

Certain authors are more frequently banned than others--Judy Blume, of course, as well as Mark Twain, J. K. Rowling, and Stephen King--but practically every book being offensive to someone, the list of all challenged books in history is literally thousands of books long. Some of those books, as far as I was concerned, were very dull indeed (Catcher in the Rye, anyone?), and most were banned for swearing and offending people's religious sensibilities. Poor Madeleine L'Engle gets banned for "promoting New Age religion," a concept that didn't even exist when A Wrinkle in Time was written.

Your local librarian would be more than happy to help you find these books, and there's a fair amount of information at http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/challengedbanned/challengedbanned.htm. Happy reading!

snarkophilus

2006-Mar-03, 08:19 PM

As for books that have been banned, I've already mentioned "A Wrinkle In Time" - but don't expect a hot, juicy story. I read this when I was in 5th grade. Back then, I would have been shocked out of my mind by an episode of "Family Guy" and I would have gone catatonic watching "South Park."

Why in the world would they have banned A Wrinkle in Time? I liked it and read the sequels, but I don't remember anything exceptional about it except for the fact that, for a very brief instant, I could see (in my head) what a five dimensional object looked like.

snarkophilus

2006-Mar-03, 08:34 PM

This thread is making me sad, because I don't have time to read all of the stuff mentioned here. Sigh....

Anyway, it occurred to me that many of my favourite books are in fact plays.

Peer Gynt - My favourite play. Period. You can even listen to Grieg's music while you read it. Ibsen's other works tend to be pretty good, too.
King Lear - Yeah, it's Shakespeare, but it's still good.
The Man Who Turned into a Stick - the Kobo Abe play (there is a play with the same name by someone else). It's actually three plays, but they sort of tie in together. Very cool.

Many of the Japanese No plays are very good, too. They're most often quite short, and usually you will find them in a collection. It helps to have a very visual imagination.

Swift

2006-Mar-03, 10:19 PM

okay, ive taken into consideration all the books all of you have recommended, but how about the books on the banned list?

one of my teachers told me once that the books on the american banned list are the best ones.

I don't know of a list of banned books. Below is the list from the American Library Association of Top Ten Most Challenged Books for 2004 (I suspect the 2005 list is not ready yet). Details are given on their website (http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=presscenter&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=86967).

"The Chocolate War" for sexual content, offensive language, religious viewpoint, being unsuited to age group and violence

"Fallen Angels" by Walter Dean Myers, for racism, offensive language and violence

"Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture" by Michael A. Bellesiles, for inaccuracy and political viewpoint

Captain Underpants series by Dav Pilkey, for offensive language and modeling bad behavior

"The Perks of Being a Wallflower" by Stephen Chbosky, for homosexuality, sexual content and offensive language

"What My Mother Doesn't Know" by Sonya Sones, for sexual content and offensive language

"In the Night Kitchen" by Maurice Sendak, for nudity and offensive language

"King & King" by Linda de Haan and Stern Nijland, for homosexuality

"I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou, for racism, homosexuality, sexual content, offensive language and unsuited to age group

"Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck, for racism, offensive language and violence

I have to admit that the only one of these I've read is Of Mice and Men, which is an absolutely wonderful book, and now that I think of it, would certainly make my list of favorite books.

teri tait

2006-Mar-04, 12:23 AM

Banned books are usually banned because the self righteous so and sos don't want you to read something THEY don't like, and they happen to be in charge. A lot of "banned" books are great books.

There is no wrong choice here. I am still a sicker for books full of cutaway drawings of the innards of ship, planes, spacecraft, etc.

I hated Lord of the Rings and couldn't read it, but I did enjoy the Harvard Lampoon spoof many years ago titled Bored of the Rings. It featured characters like Frito and Legolam. I bet if I had read the whole LotR I wuold have gorren more of the references, but it was fun anyway.

The fabulous furry freak brothers!!! and Fat Freddy's Cat. I have the whole set. I was lamenting to my wife once that I used to have them and they had disappeared over the years, and my next nirthday, she produced a big package full of them. I think she likes me.

OMG, I loved Fat Freddys Cat!
Remember Commander Cockroach, always planning attacks that would involve heavy losses :) He never worried because there were so many roaches, he'd just recruit more.
I loved the way they were drawn, cute little roaches in army uniforms. Fat Freddys Cat was drawn pretty funny too. As I recall, he was not neutered and it was quite obvious he wasn't.

Gillianren

2006-Mar-04, 02:21 AM

Why in the world would they have banned A Wrinkle in Time? I liked it and read the sequels, but I don't remember anything exceptional about it except for the fact that, for a very brief instant, I could see (in my head) what a five dimensional object looked like.

There's one page that I consider the page responsible. They're discussing Warriors for the Light, and the list of humans is, apparently, considered pretty big for such a small, backward planet. (Heck, I'm sure, given context, all of us could mention a dozen or more in our own field of study!) Jesus is mentioned, but he's not mentioned as being any different than, say, Euclid. Given how many book challenges are from fundamentalist Christians (this is documented), you can see the problem, I'm sure.

Philip A

2006-Mar-04, 03:12 AM

Anyway, it occurred to me that many of my favourite books are in fact plays.

Have you read Cyrano de Bergerac, by Rostand? Excellent.

Melusine

2006-Mar-04, 04:44 AM

If monetary value is any indication of a book's worthiness (and I do think it is to a great extent), then this list is an awfully good one. I haven't read all of them, though quite a few. It's an eclectic list, which would provide a reader with a well-rounded range of authors, should they follow this:

Ulysses, James Joyce's classic 1922 novel which chronicled the perambulations through the streets of Dublin of its main character, Leopold Bloom, in groundbreaking stream-of-consciousness style, has topped a poll of the most valuable works of fiction of the 20th century.
According to the poll, which was published in this month's issue of the Book and Magazine Collector magazine, the 1922 first edition of Joyce's account of Bloom's day in Dublin is now worth £100,000.

See bottom of article for the link to the full 100 list. (http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1690275,00.html)

Edit: add 'of' & 'monetary'

Jeff Root

2006-Mar-04, 05:51 AM

...keep in mind that im just 14. i dont want to read a
book that is so confusing, or full of big words.
I think I was 13 when I tried to read 'Treasure Island'. I got
2/3 of the way through it when the large number of characters
and interwoven plots overwhelmed me. A year later I started
over from the beginning, and got through it just fine. A year
made the difference.

My favorite book is 'Flowers for Algernon' by Daniel Keyes.

One day when I was in ninth grade, in my English classroom, for
some reason that I've long since forgotten, the teacher wasn't
there and I didn't have any particular assignment. I picked up
a magazine that was lying on a table. It had the horribly
unappealing title 'Literary Cavalcade'. I opened it anyway,
and read a short story. It was "Flowers for Algernon". Two or
three years later I was in the literature department of the
central Minneapolis library and saw a book on the shelf with
the same title. Keyes had expanded his wonderful short story
into a novel. It was a great improvement.

Although 'Flowers for Algernon' is pretty obviously science
fiction, the way I found it makes me tend to classify it with
general fiction, so I can have another story as my favorite
science fiction story: "E for Effort" by T. L. Sherred.

Isaac Asimov expressed the notion that, in his professional
opinion, his short story "The Last Question" "is the best
science fiction short story ever published." While maybe not
the *best*, I think it is the quintessential SF story, an ideal
example of what science fiction is all about. I showed it to
my freshman English instructor at the University of Minnesota,
and a few days later he had the entire class read it.

A very short story, attributed to Fredric Brown, has been said
to capture the distilled essence of SF. Here it is, in full:

After the atomic war, Earth was dead. Nothing lived,
nothing moved. The last man sat alone, in a room.

There was a knock on the door.
A short story I've read aloud to myself several times (to time
how long it will take, in anticipation of reading it aloud to
someone else someday-- 45 minutes) is "The Man Who Lost the Sea"
by Theodore Sturgeon.

At the other end of the spectrum is a great series of books
that I read from about age ten to fourteen: the 'Little House'
books by Laura Ingalls Wilder. I suggest trying out the first
in the series: 'Little House in the Big Woods'. It should be
a quick, easy, enjoyable read. The drawings by Garth Williams
illustrate the true-life story perfectly.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Gillianren

2006-Mar-04, 09:29 AM

At the other end of the spectrum is a great series of books
that I read from about age ten to fourteen: the 'Little House'
books by Laura Ingalls Wilder. I suggest trying out the first
in the series: 'Little House in the Big Woods'. It should be
a quick, easy, enjoyable read. The drawings by Garth Williams
illustrate the true-life story perfectly.

Congratulations--you just became the first male I know who's read that excellent series. (Remarkably practical advice in those books, too. I also have the cookbook.)

Skyywatcher

2006-Mar-04, 02:58 PM

I love to read so I have many favorites. Here are two I loved. Giants in the Earth because it delves into the human spirit and The Thornebirds because it demonstrates the good and the worse of humankind. Both these books are much more that what I described but very much worth reading for the individual who doesn't care for reading. You must give a book a chapter or two before you toss it or finish it, my opinion. By the way thats an excellent question. P.S. I read astronomy more than anything else wheather I get the concepts or not.

Melusine

2006-Mar-24, 12:39 AM

Ah, but no book has been banned by US law (local bannings notwithstanding) in a very, very long time.

As someone who studied the subject for an entire quarter in college (read 115 books for it, too!), allow me to present some details.

I thought of you when I read this, Gillian. There was a blurb today, but a better blurb yesterday:

SAN ANTONIO -
Ed Lyman pulled The Handmaid's Tale by Canadian novelist Margaret Atwood from the district's Advanced Placement English curriculum because he said he found some of the descriptions in the book too sexually explicit for high school students.

"The tone of the book does not support, in my opinion, the effort by our state Legislature to encourage abstinence outside the bonds of marriage," Lyman, who came to Judson less than a year ago from Ingleside, said in a story in today's San Antonio Express-News.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3741519.html

Well, I just think this ONE parent ought to look around a little more at life. I'm familiar with Margaret Atwood, and she's a good writer. In fact, she's written many essays about writing in general--very much about the importance of "characters"...if you don't have good characters, you don't have a good story, and so on. This is an Advanced English class, no less. Well, I could go on, but I'll leave it that.

Gillianren

2006-Mar-24, 01:01 AM

Yup. That's been on the list for . . . well, now, how old is that book again?

farmerjumperdon

2006-Mar-24, 02:45 PM

Just started on It's Just a Theory. Kind of a slow start, but the meaty chapters are yet to come.

I'm about 3/4 of the way thru Genome. This is a book I very heartily recommend. If a person is really intimate with genetic research (like actually doing it), this might be boring and old news. But for the layperson, I can not imagine anyone with an inquisitive mind not being totally fascinated with it.

I'm also 1/2 way thru Darwin's Dangerous Idea, which is very good - but reads like something out of antiquity after diving into Genome.

Also recently started on Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. Pretty interesting.

farmerjumperdon

2006-Mar-24, 02:49 PM

Congratulations--you just became the first male I know who's read that excellent series. (Remarkably practical advice in those books, too. I also have the cookbook.)

What a coincidence. My little sister just gave my daughters a boxed set of a bunch of this series. I think because of the local setting, they'll really get into them.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-May-04, 12:00 AM

i hate to bring this ack up, after going back through the whole list do you think you could list the books by subject? like this:

<Sci-Fi-/ Fururistic> Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card . its about a boy who goes through an advanced military school to save his race. his psychology is what stands out the most.

something like that. i would raelly appreciate it! :D !

mugaliens

2006-May-04, 01:14 AM

1) What is your favorite book and why? Just what makes the book something good to read and not a waste of time?

The Sears Catalog. It's not only a good browse, wishing I could afford what I can't, but it's a great replacement for TP. A bit rough, yes, but that just emphasiszes that I'll never see that particular product in my home!

mugaliens

2006-May-04, 02:00 AM

My god, swift - what has our nation become, banning books like these?

Good list. I've read about half. While a few books I've read should be restricted for age-appropriacy, I've never read any that should be banned.

Half the internet falls into their criteria!

Fram

2006-May-04, 08:15 AM

Don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but I've just reread "The Quincunx" by Charles Palliser (genre? socio-historical novel, detective, ...), and while not flawless (sometimes a bit overcomplicated) is still one of the best books I have read.

Maksutov

2006-May-04, 08:35 AM

For me it's a toss-up between Slaughterhouse-Five OR THE CHILDREN'S CRUSADE A DUTY-DANCE WITH DEATH by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. and City by Clifford D. Simak.

I guess I tend to like literature that is somewhat eclectic in its scope.

sts60

2006-May-04, 02:36 PM

I've always loved to read, but must confess my tastes are not "literary" - I read for entertainment more than enlightenment. But there is plenty of good writing out there which is not necessarily considered "literary". Anyway, here are some random neural firings:

Books which I read as a kid but also provide rich rewards for the adult, and which I believe are as well-written as any "literary" book you care to mention:
C.S. Forester's Hornblower series
Watership Down by Richard Adams

When I was a kid, I also devoured E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman and Triplanetary series - terrific old space opera. ["That luckless wight was promptly hurled out of existence." A line like that stays with you :)]

Everything by Alistair MacLean (The Guns of Navarone, etc.).

Most anything by H.L. Mencken.
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Mark Twain. Plus anything else he wrote.
I have to say I like writings by curmudgeonly newspapermen such as Mencken and Twain. There is sharp, funny genius in The Hills of Zion, The Awful German Language and James Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses ("One is hostile to the good characters, indifferent to the bad ones, and wishes they would all get drowned together.")

I like good long stories with lots of detail, so I really did enjoy Beowulf when I read it for school (which I had to walk to and from uphill, through the snow, mind you. In the Arizona desert.) And, of course, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

The Postman by David Brin. (Forget the wretched movie adaptation, even if it takes self-lobotomization by fireplace poker. Just forget it.) The short SF stories of Connie Willis (Fire Watch in particular). Heinlein (except his last books), Niven, David Gerrold (The Flying Sorcerers is just awesome, not to mention hilarious).

Anything, fiction or non-, by Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke.
The ruminations of Richard Feynman. Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World. Why do they leave us so early?

Dave Barry's humor. (And some not-so-funny accounts which really set you aback with their poignancy and graceful writing, especially coming after a piece about exploding toilets.)

sts60

2006-May-04, 02:46 PM

Oh, and one great book: 'The Once and Future King', by TH White (four sequential stories in one volume).

Warning to younger readers; the legends of King Arthur were written for adults, Disney notwithstanding. 'The Sword in the Stone' is wonderful fun and evokes the middle ages in a way to make them truly engaging. The story turns much darker in 'The Queen of Air and Darkness' and 'The Ill-Made Knight', and gets downright brutal in 'A Candle in the Wind'. But the story of Arthur, a sort of Everyman who tries to make his nasty and vicious world better, is worth the trip. By the end of the final scene I'm always crying, and I've read it at least ten times.
To me, perhaps the single most moving passage I've ever read comes rather incongruously from Twain's skewering of this legend in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, which I just mentioned in my last post - where the king and the Yankee go out incognito and come upon a family stricken with smallpox:

There was a slight noise from the direction of the dim corner where the ladder was. It was the king descending. I could see that he was bearing something in one arm, and assisting himself with the other.

He came forward into the light; upon his breast lay a slender girl of fifteen. She was but half conscious; she was dying of smallpox. Here was heroism at its last and loftiest possibility, its utmost summit; this was challenging death in the open field unarmed, with all the odds against the challenger, no reward set upon the contest, and no admiring world in silks and cloth of gold to gaze and applaud; and yet the king's bearing was as serenely brave as it had always been in those cheaper contests where knight meets knight in equal fight and clothed in protecting steel.

He was great now; sublimely great. The rude statues of his ancestors in his palace should have an addition -- I would see to that; and it would not be a mailed king killing a giant or a dragon, like the rest, it would be a king in commoner's garb bearing death in his arms that a peasant mother might look her last upon her child and be comforted.

Gillianren

2006-May-04, 05:24 PM

Dave Barry's humor. (And some not-so-funny accounts which really set you aback with their poignancy and graceful writing, especially coming after a piece about exploding toilets.)

If you like Dave Barry, try Bill Bryson. I haven't read much of his work yet, but what I have, I've really enjoyed.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-May-04, 09:13 PM

i like the suggestions, and i think i will read beowolf because everyone is recommending it; any other books youd like to mention?

Moose

2006-May-04, 10:56 PM

Just finished reading George Orwell's 1984 for the first time. :eek: The hair on the back of my neck is still right up on end. That may be the creepiest book I've ever read.

N C More

2006-May-04, 11:12 PM

Just finished reading George Orwell's 1984 for the first time...

Have your ever read Brave New World? (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/lit-med/lit-med-db/webdocs/webdescrips/huxley1256-des-.html) It's a good 'follow read' to 1984.

TheBlackCat

2006-May-05, 12:31 AM

I would say my favorite is either "After Man" by Dougal Dixon or "Expedition" by Wayne Douglas Barlowe. I am not particularly into novels, so those are my favorite works of fiction. "Alien Planet" was a great movie adaptation of "Expedition", but "The Future is Wild" is a somewhat dissapointing TV mini-series sequel to "After Man", since it lacked the imagination "After Man" demonstrated.

A.DIM

2006-May-05, 04:04 AM

See; im not really a book person. But i just dont see how so many people enjoy reading. I just dont see why. So i have two questions:

1) What is your favorite book and why? Just what makes the book something good to read and not a waste of time?

and

2) When do you know you like a book? Im sorry for asking such a dumb question, but is it like a striking moment? Ive read books in school like to kill a mocking bird, and award winning books like the giver, and all, but what makes a book; .........good?

"To Kill A Mockingbird" is one of the greatest pieces of "fiction" you'll ever read and so I don't really understand the OP.

And so you WILL know when you've read something powerful or moving...

...unless you'll admit your imagination is terribly lacking...

A.DIM

2006-May-05, 04:09 AM

ah... sorry so abrasive.... but I'd say if you're not moved by Dante or some of the other "classics," there's no hope for you as "reader"....

TriangleMan

2006-May-05, 07:41 AM

"To Kill A Mockingbird" is one of the greatest pieces of "fiction" you'll ever read and so I don't really understand the OP.

Sometimes reading a book in English class, with its in-class "analysis", can really sink a book. I read Mockingbird in English class as well and found it okay but not outstanding.

Moose

2006-May-05, 12:22 PM

Have your ever read Brave New World? (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/lit-med/lit-med-db/webdocs/webdescrips/huxley1256-des-.html) It's a good 'follow read' to 1984.

Oooh. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to track this down next time I'm at the SPCA book sale. :)

Maksutov

2006-May-05, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by N C More
Have your ever read Brave New World? (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/lit-med/lit-med-db/webdocs/webdescrips/huxley1256-des-.html) It's a good 'follow read' to 1984.
Oooh. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to track this down next time I'm at the SPCA book sale. :)You could check your local library, too. Once you read it, you'll never look at zippers (or saxophones, for that matter) the same way.

Knowledge_Seeker

2006-May-05, 09:53 PM

Sometimes reading a book in English class, with its in-class "analysis", can really sink a book. I read Mockingbird in English class as well and found it okay but not outstanding.

i agree, i read the book for class and i did not find it particularly so great....

Disinfo Agent

2006-May-05, 09:56 PM

Just finished reading George Orwell's 1984 for the first time. :eek: The hair on the back of my neck is still right up on end. That may be the creepiest book I've ever read.Orwell's other best-seller, Animal Farm, is also good, if less creepy.

Parrothead

2006-May-06, 02:23 AM

We by Eugene Zamiatin was a pretty good read too, written in the early 1920's, as a comparison to 1984 and Brave New World.

ciderman

2006-May-06, 02:17 PM

I also have a copy of "After Man" by Dougal Dixon, it took me about 20 years to track one down so it's my most treasured book. A particually fine read is imo "A Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge (I'm into sci-fi, not well read in other genres)

Melusine

2006-May-06, 03:14 PM

ah... sorry so abrasive.... but I'd say if you're not moved by Dante or some of the other "classics," there's no hope for you as "reader"....
I agree, how could anyone not be moved by someone gnawing on person's bones or head? ;)

I hadn't seen this thread as one listing our favorite books, but what Knowledge Seeker, who is admittedly not a book lover, would be likely to enjoy. However, it looks like you just can't keep a book lover down! In another thread I mentioned childhood sentimental favorites, for I feel it would be pretentious to say, "Oh, Ulysses is my favorite." It's not, and it's too hard to pick one favorite. Through the Looking Glass, The Little Prince, A Wrinkle in Time, and The Secret Garden are my sentimental favorites. I was also thinking that Swallows & Amazons inspired us to build a fort on an island and act like pirates; we even got red paint to look like blood and after 30 years I can still see my first intial in "blood" in the fort. Lol. Books that inspire and fuel one's imagination are great.

Maksutov mentioned Vonnegut, which oddly my good friend was shocked to find out that I had read Slaughterhouse Five and Cat's Cradle only a couple of years ago. I could read that kind of absurdism all day, lol. Maybe one "finds" books at the appropriate moment...

STS60, Watership Down is one of my above mentioned friend's favorite books, and he's an extremely avid reader. He insisted I read that some time ago (he used to make up book lists for me), and it is truly a great book.

Same goes for Mark Twain, who despite his misanthropy had a true love of life, and when one reads him, it helps to keep that in mind. When I think of one of America's greatest writers, for both stories and essays, I put Twain above Emerson, probably because of his skeptical nature, humor and cynicism. (Emerson is good to read, too.) That Twain's house near Hartford, CT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain_House) is a requisite grade-school field trip probably adds to the Twain "reverence" as well. (they don't show the steamboat side.)

I do find it interesting that writers, such as Flannery O'Connor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flannery_O'Connor)who wrote about her deep southern Georgia upbringing from her house, if I recall correctly, in Redding, Connecticut, worked best away from their home locales. Mark Twain* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain) is similar in this way.

STS60, that's a great passage. :)

* These Wikipedia entries on Twain, his CT house, and Flannery O'Connor are lacking. Other sources are preferable, which goes to show Wikipedia is a WIP.