Bosnian Pyramid

[brianok]

First pyramid found in Europe. Quite extraordinary

PHOTO:
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/

STORY:
http://www.cp.org/english/online/full/science/051129/g112920A.html

[Nicolas]

You're ToSeeked somewhere (I think in Babbling).

Looks an awful lot like a hill to me. They'll need firm evidence to prove this is a hill shaped into a pyramid and not a pyramid shaped hill.

[HenrikOlsen]

This does look like evidence (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/Excavations.html) to me:)

[Nicolas]

I am willing to believe there's a pyramid there. But with the tiny and unclear images on that site I can't tell for myself, and I can't read the reports.

They claim to have found hundreds of meters of straight walled and 90° splitting tunnels, which would indeed prove (to large extent) a manmade structure. But with tiny unclear photos (in which I hardly can recognize a tunnel) we've got very little more than stories to judge from. Same goes from the stone pictures: I can't see whether they're manmade, how they are positioned on the hill etcetc.

Finding archealogical itmes on that hill (like the ball or what is it on the photo) also does not prove that the hill is man made or severely altered by men. It is known that people used to live around that hill/pyramid in the past. We need clear evidence that the hill has been altered.

I'm waiting for clear imagery, clear reports and the like of the tunnels, stairs, stone cover etcetc.

[ryanmercer]

There are pyramids are nearly every continent on earth, why can't Bosnia have one?

[Nicolas]

Of course they can have one. What needs to be proven is whether they have one.

[eburacum45]

I think this is mostly bogus;
Mr Osmanagic seems to think that this pyramid is 12000 years old.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=53968

Mr. Osmanagic concluded that under the present hill of Visocica hides a stairs-like pyramid, about 12,000 years old. Osmanagic, who intensively researched on pyramids in Americas, Asia and Africa for the last 15 years and wrote several books on the subject, says he's quite sure he found the first pyramid in Europe, which is quite similar to ones in the Southern America.He believes that the project would completely change Bosnia's significance in the world of archeology.On the top of "Bosnian pyramid of Sun" was a temple, built by pre-Illyrians, people who lived, according to Osmanagic, 27,000 years ago.

I think this is extremely unlikely, and this dating makes the rest of his research look shaky.

[publiusr]

How much you guys want to bet that Hoagland stumbles across this page and includes it in his site?

[Nicolas]

I think this is mostly bogus;
Mr Osmanagic seems to think that this pyramid is 12000 years old.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=53968


I think this is extremely unlikely, and this dating makes the rest of his research look shaky.

27000 years ago, what kind of temple are we talking about here?

I really need CLEAR info on the tunnels and the like before I am convinced. Too bad if he's not lying, but this approach makes it so suspicoous. If you found 200 meters of tunnels, do spend more than 180*180 pixels on it!

That said, I'm really interested in the findings of a professional research of this site.

[Blob]

Hum,
i guess that there were only 100 or so people that were living in that part of Europe during the end of the ice age. So given the size of it, and lack of any evidence supporting the theory i would be surprised if anybody took it seriously.

Perhaps, if you put it on E-bay someone would buy it.

[Candy]

"We found a paved entrance plateau and discovered underground tunnels. You don't have to be an expert to realize what this is."
What's in the tunnels?

[Nicolas]

An atmospheric substance called air, and a quite fuggy variant on that, is my guess :).

He claims to have explored 200m of tunnels and stopped where there was a T split. There are "stories" of children entering the small pyramid tunnels and coming out on top of the large one on the other side of the river. Perfectly dry tunnels underneath a river after 12000 years - amazing...

[A.DIM]

A more recent CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/04/ap/tech/mainD8E9642G4.shtml) article.

""No fast conclusions, please. The evidence has to be firm, at least beyond a reasonable doubt," he said."

[eburacum45]

The oldest city known is Çatalhöyük in Turkey, which is 8000 to 9000 years old.
http://www.focusmm.com/civcty/cathyk00.htm
http://www.smm.org/catal/introduction/
This supposed pyramid would need to be three thousand years earlier, during the Palaeolithic period.
Not a chance.

[HenrikOlsen]

One thing to remember here is that it's entierly possible for the pyranid to me manmade without being from the time he's talking about.
Another possibility is that it's an essentially natural hill that's been shaped and faced.
More archaeology is needed to answer which and when and to me it looks like some of the sillier claims is made to raise the money for that.

[Blob]

Hum,
yeah,
From the CBS article - "The hill was already there, some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete _ and there you have a pyramid."

Which would be quite possible during the Bronze Age onwards - as that was the time of wide spread hill fortification.

[eburacum45]

A prime example of Bad Archaeology, it seems to me.

[Black Mamba]

Hey , people :D


Mr Osmanagic seems to think that this pyramid is 12000 years old

no he does not think that, he said in a interview that pyramid is minimum 3000 old




I'm waiting for clear imagery, clear reports and the like of the tunnels, stairs, stone cover etcetc.

[eburacum45]

3000 years is a little more realistic, although why has Osmanagic ever mentioned these ridiculous 12000 and 27000 year estimates at all?
These links quote him as giving those dates
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=53968
http://sciencepolitics.blogspot.com/2005/12/pyramid-in-bosnia_07.html

Mr. Osmanagić concluded that under the present hill of Visočica hides a stairs-like pyramid, about 12,000 years old. Osmanagić, who intensively researched on pyramids in Americas, Asia and Africa for the last 15 years and wrote several books on the subject, says he's quite sure he found the first pyramid in Europe, which is quite similar to ones in the Southern America.
He believes that the project would completely change Bosnia's significance in the world of archeology. On the top of "Bosnian pyramid of Sun" was a temple, built by pre-Illyrians, people who lived, according to Osmanagić, 27,000 years ago.
Now it is certainly possible that someone has misquoted him, and mixed the dates up; then the Internet has picked up and repeated the mistake. I would think it pretty strange if Osmanagic really said this in the first place, as it seems to imply that the sun temple was built 27000 years ago on top of a 12000 year old pyramid (not a bad trick).
But if he is going for a relatively sober 3000 b.p. date then it seems not impossible after all.

If this is an artificial mound it is considerably larger than the previous holder of the 'largest mound in Europe' title, Silbury Hill in Wiltshire.
http://www.stonepages.com/england/silburyhill.html
Silbury hill is 4000 years old, but only 130 feet high as opposed to 700 metres.

[Black Mamba]

3000 years is a little more realistic, although why has Osmanagic ever mentioned these ridiculous 12000 and 27000 year estimates at all?
These links quote him as giving those dates
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...s.php?id=53968
http://sciencepolitics.blogspot.com/...bosnia_07.html



Now it is certainly possible that someone has misquoted him, and mixed the dates up; then the Internet has picked up and repeated the mistake.

exactly exactly




If this is an artificial mound it is considerably larger than the previous holder of the 'largest mound in Europe' title, Silbury Hill in Wiltshire.
http://www.stonepages.com/england/silburyhill.html
Silbury hill is 4000 years old, but only 130 feet high as opposed to 700 metres.
Today 08:03 PM


bosnian pyramid is not a mound, it is a stone building, there is a stone buidling uder the hill




Hum,
yeah,
From the CBS article - "The hill was already there, some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete _ and there you have a pyramid."

Which would be quite possible during the Bronze Age onwards - as that was the time of wide spread hill fortification

this is not truth, osmangich said that it is not truth, someone has misquoted him

the truth is there is a stone construction under the hill

[eburacum45]

Even the Great Pyramid is only 146 metres tall; can it really be true that this hill is an artificial edifice 700 metres tall? Once again I have my doubts.

[John M. Dollan]

The truth is *not* that there is a stone construction under the hill -- as we now know it. *That* assertation needs to be proven before the term "truth" can be used.

That being said, if this *does* turn out to be a pyramid, even one that was made from a pre-existing near pyramidal shaped hill, then it would indeed be a remarkable discovery.

...John...

[Fram]

This was the first thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=34245&highlight=osmaganic) where this was discussed.
I linked there to his, er, fringe theories (http://www.alternativnahistorija.com/AH4.htm) he had before this "discovery" was announced.
He may have been misquoted on his date for this pyramid, but isn't it bizarre that he would be misquoted in away consistent with his other ideas?
To me, he still looks like a man with many ideas and little knowledge, and the way this discovery has been publicized only confirms that impression to me. It's an intriguing couple of mounds, worthy of some investigation, but I would rather see some professionals do it, and announce the results after the research has been done, not before.

[Fram]

bosnian pyramid is not a mound, it is a stone building, there is a stone buidling uder the hill


Not according to this report (http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=03200000RFHC).
Osmanagic:

"The hill was already there," he added. "Some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete -- and there you have a pyramid."
It isn't also a complete pyramid, as the backside is much shorter than the front, but that is no proof or disproof of course.
Oh, and now there are already three pyramids (Sun, Moon and Earth).

When looking at the website (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html), it strikes me that he has become more cautious about giving a date (perhaps that was just a ploy to get attention?), and that the rest of the info is confusing at least. The give very precise info in some cases, about the size of the steps and so on, but on the other hand, only two stone slabs seem to have been unearthed yet. Much of the info seems to rely on village stories and on what he believes he will find, not on any actual evidence. It is still unclear whether he thinks that it is an existing hill shaped into a pyramid or a completely built pyramid, and so on. But it does seem clear to me that he is not an archaeologist, and that no archaeologist was around during the first excavations.
So I remain very cautious and while I do believe that some megalithic structure may come from that area (why not?) I doubt it will be as old or as spectacular as it was first announced...

[Black Mamba]

The truth is *not* that there is a stone construction under the hill -- as we now know it. *That* assertation needs to be proven before the term "truth" can be used.

i have read geolocial raport of the area , geological raport came in November 2005, it says that there is a stone construction under the hill



i have found something about the bosnian pyramid

http://dino.avdibeg.dk/blog/2005/11/news-regarding-bosnian-pyramid-of-sun.html

[Lianachan]

Even if this Bosnian thing is a pyramid, and I personally don't think it is, then it's not the first to be found in Europe. The oldest pyramid in the world is in Greece, and there's even one dating from the first century AD in Rome.

[Halcyon Dayz]

But it does seem clear to me that he is not an archaeologist, and that no archaeologist was around during the first excavations.
UNESCO should send in a SWAT-team. ;)

[Black Mamba]

here is latest evidence that bosnian pyramid of sun and pyramid of moon a stone construction

from NASA satelit TERRA

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6629/termalpiram4bg.jpg
termal photo

where you can see black colour, the area bacome colder than the surroundings , that proves that it is stone construction under the hil

just look a the hills a judge for yourself if it is pyramids :think:

[Lianachan]

here is latest evidence that bosnian pyramid of sun and pyramid of moon a stone construction

from NASA satelit TERRA

termal photo

where you can see black colour, the area bacome colder than the surroundings , that proves that it is stone construction under the hil

just look a the hills a judge for yourself if it is pyramids :think:

What about all the other purple and blue areas? Do they have stone constructions under them too?

[Black Mamba]

What about all the other purple and blue areas? Do they have stone constructions under them too?

i dot know a just posted what the man who photografed this image said , he worked whit NASA

i dont think so purple and blue areas are stone constructions

[NEOWatcher]

What about all the other purple and blue areas? Do they have stone constructions under them too? i dot know a just posted what the man who photografed this image said , he worked whit NASA
i dont think so purple and blue areas are stone constructions
Are we assuming that stone cannot occur naturally?
I was under the impression that some hills and mountains are the result of ground and rock being pushed up from below. I guess that can't happen, and the himalayas are just piles of dirt.:rolleyes:

[Nicolas]

We have clear pictures from the hill (or pyramid) but VERY little pixels are dedicated to the hundreds of meters of tunnels, who should be more proof than anything else. Why? And one flat stone does not show manmade stairs. Where's the proof this is a manmade (shaped of course:)) stone, that there are stairs etc? The fact that it's more or less flat does not prove anything, nor does the fact that some of the hills there are shaped more or less like pyramids. Of course, they don't disprove anything either. Still waiting for the proof...

[Fram]

What intrigues me is the stone with the supposed circles or spirals on it. This stone is not shaped at all (perhaps flattened, but not squared or so), so it doesn't fit in with the rest of the story. We still have way too little information, but it still looks to me as if only the positive info is given and highlighted, and everything that disagrees with the idea of a pyramid is hidden (in text, not in reality).

[eburacum45]

The stone with circles on looks very natural to me; a thinly layered sandstone could display such a pattern just by weathering. I walk to work every day over York stone paving slabs with similar patterns of wear.
But until a proper archaeologist has a look at it (rather than this amateur Osmanagic) I would reserve judgement.

[Quantum_Raider]

Interesting ... in one of their reports they have this to say about a rock:


It was found to have circular patterns which will be analysed further; it is thought that they are man made

Looking at the picture supplied it appears to me to be the normal formation of a rock, i.e. layers of sediment laid down over time.

Picture of rock: http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianPyramid_circlesSlabs.jpg

Report: http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/Report_en.html

hmmm ... state that it's a pyramid, then find the proof ... good science in anyone's book

Just to balance out the "facts" of the pryamid, have a look at his site on the Maya: http://www.alternativnahistorija.com/WM.htm

[Halcyon Dayz]

Seen stuf like that before all to often.

(thanx fram)

[Nicolas]

If that circular rock thingy is man made, than there must have been a worldwide advanced civilisation of billions of people in the past, all of them putting layers -I'm sorry, circles- in the rocks...

Instead of making a nice picture of an ordinary rock, why doesn't he show a man standing somewhere inside that hundreds of meters of tunnel systems he explored? It does not catch on film?

[Fram]

If he has done some real archeologicaldiscovery, I shiver to think what damage is done already to it. This picture (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/slabs.jpg) doesn't give me the idea that the work has been done very carefully and accurately...

Oh, and a fourth pyramid (The dragon, after Sun, Moon and Earth) is "found".

[Nicolas]

Somebody tell the man there is a mountain ridge there, before he starts excavating 30 pyramids.

[Fram]

But then the foundation, of which he is the chairman, wouldn't get any funds!

[Fram]

From BosnianPyramids.org (http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/index.php?id=2&lang=en):

c) It is determined that there is a presence of straight cut tiles with high percent of iron which gives them red color. On them there are decorative circles which indicate their ornamental function. Also, these tiles cause magnetic interference.
So according to Mr. Osmanagic, the tile with the circles is straight cut... This is what I meant when I said that he only sees what he wants to see, apparently.
The "Pyramid of the Sun" is the location of a medieval city of some importance (located at the top). Perhaps the tunnels and so on have more to do with that than with a Paleolithic culture? It isn't really unusual to have medieval tunnels (not to mention medieval mines).

From this pic (http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/photos/photo_4.7.jpg), it doesn't look as if the Sun pyramid has even four sides...

[Nicolas]

You can see that it is almost exactly lined up with the magnetic compass...

Please let some professional archealogists check out the hill. That way they can find (in an acceptable way) whatever remains from any medieval (or older) settlement, and determine whether the hill features anything worth noticing inside.

[Fram]

^^^
What he said

[Black Mamba]

If he has done some real archeologicaldiscovery, I shiver to think what damage is done already to it. This picture doesn't give me the idea that the work has been done very carefully and accurately...

Oh, and a fourth pyramid (The dragon, after Sun, Moon and Earth) is "found".

FRAM dont worry, i can see that you dont know wht has happen here

i know almost everything about this

the truth is when this happen when a local man who lived under the hill on the hill i dont know, tried to build new house , when he started to dig, he dug up this stones, but when osmanagich saw this he took this stones to moseum, and he said to bosnian politician to make this area of natinal intrest , so people can not dig and build things on this area

my english is catastrofy :doh: i am sorry people , but i do my best


what said most popular archeologist in the world about bosnian pyramid

Prof. dr. R. Bruce Hitchner,

http://ase.tufts.edu/classics/facultyguide/rhitchner/img1.jpg

i have studied carefully this evidence about bosnian pyramid , i can say that this is maybe old Roman graveyard building (something like that he said)


Zahi hawas

http://www.jp-petit.com/EGYPTOLOGIE/Photos_diverses/zahi_hawas.gif

It is posibble that there is pyramids in Bosnia.....



from

www.bosnianpyramid.com


The Terra satellite, which has been orbiting Earth since

1999 as a joint project between US Nasa and the Japanese

Government, has been revealing further evidence of

pyramids in what is now referred to as

Bosnia’s Valley of Pyramids, near Visoko. (see image)





Archaeological Park: Bosnia Pyramid of the Sun

(the official Foundation for the archaeological site) analysed the data from the satellite thermal imaging and concluded that all four hills present anomalies inconsistent with natural landscapes.

Thermal imaging detects new pyramids (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html)

[Nicolas]

"maybe, possibly, possible" but where's the evidence? That stone with "circles"? Or the mini pictures showing next to nothing? The hills that look a bit like a pyramid (hey! a pyramid accidentally happens to look a bit like a hill as well!) and that are a bit almost lined up to the compass? Without evidence, "possible" will always remain "possible".

I hope they indeed do attract professional archealogists. The existence of a Foundation an sich is a garantee for nothing. Remember that there are multiple Foundations that arrange visits to "the" resting place of Noah's ship.

And while digging for the possible pyramid I hope they do not forget to do some professional archeology on the surface of the hill - there were most chances of finding things of archeological importance are. A settlement on a hill does not imply a pyramid, and on the other hand it would be more than a pity if they'd destroy an archeological site by searching for a pyramid underneath it. Oh and I hope they do bring a camera capable of creating more than thumbnails :).

[Nicolas]

I see they now have put larger photos online. Wheeeeee! I'll check them out.

[Nicolas]

THe website remains inconsistent. They are not sure there are pyramids, next page there are 4 possibly pyramids, next page there are 3 pyramids found...

[Black Mamba]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6629/termalpiram4bg.jpg

The Terra satellite, which has been orbiting Earth since

1999 as a joint project between US Nasa and the Japanese

Government, has been revealing further evidence of

pyramids in what is now referred to as

Bosnia’s Valley of Pyramids, near Visoko. (see image)





Archaeological Park: Bosnia Pyramid of the Sun

(the official Foundation for the archaeological site) analysed the data from the satellite thermal imaging and concluded that all four hills present anomalies inconsistent with natural landscapes.

Thermal imaging detects new pyramids (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html)

[Nicolas]

From what I've seen, it is very well possible that a settlement did exist on that hill. That does not give clues about the hill actually being a man made pyramid. The "entrance stairs" might as well be a sort of main street leading up to the highest point of the settlement.

Let's hope Mr Osmanagic does not simply want to find pyramids like the ones he saw all over the world, and will dig up and place stones until he has restored a pyramid where there never was one...

If there actually was a settlement with such a large staired pathway and some tunneling, that would be very interesting in it's own right. Let's hope they don't simply drop the site if it should become clear that there was no pyramid there, unless they also showed there was no settlement worth noticing there.

[Titana]

I dont know why but i kind a doubt the existance of a pyramid. I think that the findings will prove to be much more recent then suggested and just it might turn out to be some kind a natural hill into which tombs or something may have been built...


I quess we will just have to wait for more proof.........;)

(The pics dont convince me either)


Titana.

[Nicolas]

Somebody that eager to find a pyramid might call a natural hill with tombs inside a pyramid anyway...

One thing is clear and that is that this "conclusion before the evidence" unclear website approach does not work. Pyramids or not.

[Titana]

I agree........:p



Titana.

[Fram]

the truth is when this happen when a local man who lived under the hill on the hill i dont know, tried to build new house , when he started to dig, he dug up this stones, but when osmanagich saw this he took this stones to moseum, and he said to bosnian politician to make this area of natinal intrest , so people can not dig and build things on this area
I thought it was already of national interest because of the medieval village on top?



my english is catastrofy :doh: i am sorry people , but i do my best


what said most popular archeologist in the world about bosnian pyramid

Prof. dr. R. Bruce Hitchner,

http://ase.tufts.edu/classics/facultyguide/rhitchner/img1.jpg

i have studied carefully this evidence about bosnian pyramid , i can say that this is maybe old Roman graveyard building (something like that he said)


Zahi hawas

http://www.jp-petit.com/EGYPTOLOGIE/Photos_diverses/zahi_hawas.gif

It is posibble that there is pyramids in Bosnia.....


Any source for these two quotes? I can't find anything on the Internet... I have no idea if Dr. Hitchner is the most popular archaeologist in the world either, but that is irrelevant.

[ToSeek]

Black Mamba, I've done some editing to fix potential rules violations on this forum, specifically:

- Don't link directly to images hosted on another website.
- Don't quote entire pages from another website, quote an excerpt and provide a link

The latter is a copyright violation and could subject us to legal action; the former is just impolite. Your specific instances are fairly minor and might not be an issue, but I prefer not to take chances. Thanks.

[aucklander]

You can read the newest interview with Mr. Osmanagic, the guy who discovered pyramids, at http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/

[Fram]

Thanks, Aucklander.
A few first reactions.

Before that Peruvian cultures were the focus of my interest or even the pyramid of power on the planet...
Let's hope this is a bad translation. The pyramid of power on the planet?

Visoko valley will have an official geographic name in a few years: Bosnian valley of pyramids.
How does he know that? He is rather full of himself sometimes...

The following year, 2007, will be marked by the astonishment of the world public how such colossal monuments could have been made before the end of the last Ice age.
There's more about this...

For now we have two very important indicators that pyramids were under water for several hundred years. Only such occurrence can be related to the melting of the ice at the end of the last Ice age 12.000 years ago. In other words, pyramids existed then already.
And:

Regarding the age, there is more and more evidence that the main pyramid complex were built right before the end of the last Ice age, indicating that there was world wide plan for building these monuments.
So, the pyramids are very old, have been under water, and are part of a worldwide plan...
This man is clearly unqualified for the excavations he's doing and the conclusions he draws from them. I have no idea what he has found, we have way too little information to decide that, but his conclusions are preposterous and are based on what he wants to find, not on any reality.
This comment makes me fear the worst:

In October of 2005 I continued my excavation on my own with wide digs, so-called probing (excavation) wells, which showed the structure of the walls of the pyramid, access plateau and the pyramid design.
So the only real dig that has been done yet, he did on his own? And he is the one asking that this would become a region of national interest so others can't do no damage?
Until some independent archaeologists have done their own research, I don't believe anything Mr. Osmanagic claims anymore...

[Nicolas]

My fear that he will dig up stones and place them until he has restored pyramids where there never were before gets stronger. So does my fear that any archeology of possible settlements on the hills will be lost due to trying to fit it with the pyramid hypothesis. Looking at the pictures of his jobs with aztec pyramids and the like, there he made nice restorations, but the shape was really clear beforehand. Half a wall and loose bricks can be restored into a complete wall, a hill into a pyramid is a bit tough if there was no pyramid.

There are so many inconsistent things. There are the stories of children going into one tunnel and coming out of a tunnel on another pyramid. Quite easy to check I would think. Take a camera with you and do the job => result funding and attention. Claiming you explored 100m of tunnels and showing about 1m (I think, there is no scale reference) is a bit strange. Of course that can be explained because Mr. Osmanagic simply doesn't want the honour and attention but wants to do archeology...ummm....

[captain swoop]

As for that slab, I live under the Escarpment of the Cleveland Hills there are entire rock faces composed of banded sandstone that look exactly like that slab, they certainly haven't been worked

[Titana]

Hummm...i am kind of of confused here. I see that the Bosnian "pyramid" is being considered the first pyramid found in Europe. I did a little investigation on that and came up with this....

http://www.crystalinks.com/pyrgreece.html



There is supposedly an existence of more then 16 pyramids all over Greece.
Some of which date before those found in Egypt.....:confused:




Titana.

[Nicolas]

As far as I know that's correct, there have been multiple pyramids (not huge ones, but pyramids nonetheless) found in Europe. Of course, being 26000 years old the Bosnian pyramids would be the first pyramids in Europe. Not the first ones found though. Maybe it's a translation thing, where he said "oldest found". I don't know.

[Black Mamba]

if you read geological raports about pyramid, you would be also convinced that there is a pyramid , but geological raport is in bosnian i hope they will translate it to english
they have found many thing , which is not in shown in photos

[Titana]

As far as I know that's correct, there have been multiple pyramids (not huge ones, but pyramids nonetheless) found in Europe. Of course, being 26000 years old the Bosnian pyramids would be the first pyramids in Europe. Not the first ones found though. Maybe it's a translation thing, where he said "oldest found". I don't know.



Well, it is kind of confusing, because every article i read says "Europes first Pyramid". (That sure gives the impression of being the first found in Europe) And also most of the articles that talk about the Bosnian pyramid always mention that there are no knowned pyramids in Europe.....:confused:




Titana.

[Lianachan]

Well, it is kind of confusing, because every article i read says "Europes first Pyramid". (That sure gives the impression of being the first found in Europe) And also most of the articles that talk about the Bosnian pyramid always mention that there are no knowned pyramids in Europe.....:confused:




Titana.
*cough* (http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=648523&postcount=26)

[Titana]

*cough* (http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=648523&postcount=26)


Opps, i think i missed that post.....:shifty:




Titana.

[PhantomWolf]

I believe there is a zygraut in Spain too.

[01101001]

There's definitely a pyramid in Paris (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/pei/louvre_rfo.jpg).

I estimate its age to be 29,035 years.

Give or take 29000 years.

[HenrikOlsen]

And you're wrong (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Pyramide_du_Louvre.html).:)

[Halcyon Dayz]

Well, he's right within his margin of error. ;)

[01101001]

Well, he's right within his margin of error. ;)
Thank you. It was just a 95% confidence level estimate. 5% of the time I'm allowed to be wrong.

[HenrikOlsen]

Well, he's right within his margin of error. ;)
His margin of error allows for 35-58.035 years, it's only 17, so it's outside.

[Nicolas]

He's found the sphinx (http://www.ecards-gallery.com/ecards/cat_pictures/catpictures007/cute-kitten-picture-in-the-grass.jpg)!!! ;)

[brianok]

Check this out--archaeological project for 2006


http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10037&entrynumber=658

[Nicolas]

The identical text is also on the Bosnia Pyramid site. So I don't know who's the author. Possibly the AIA just took over what Osmanagic sent them, without filtering it through their opinion.

He refers to it as "the first european pyramid(s) of collosal dimensions" but on the site it is in most cases abbreviated to "the first european pyramid(s)". Always nice to have a first :). He certainly ha his conclusion first :D ;).

Lets's see what this year's fieldwork brings.

[Fram]

The text is exactly what Osmanagic sent them, the only filtering that happens is that they check it first (to exclude pranksters and so on). You don't need any further references, titles, experience, ... to get included on these pages.

[Joshua Korosi]

Hmmm...any serious work done on this thing, yet? As in, a university-grade excavation or survey? It looks kind of big; however, if there is any "stone construction" here, it's entirely possible that the neolithic (or whichever-age) peoples could've dug into the hill and excavated some "chambers" inside it (a la Malta's Hypogeum), rather than actually building that entire hill piece by piece. At least, it's a more practical scenario. But of course only a properly-trained archaeology team would be able to make any useful determination.

But oh wait, properly-trained archaeologists are evil, supressive, and not to be trusted. Some one fetch Erich!

[Sisa]

Here is a link to some photos of recent escavations.

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/indexbh.htm

It is in bosnian language AND IT ONLY WORKS IN IE :mad: :wall:, english version does not have these photos.

On the left side find "Aktuelnosti" click on it and go to dates from 17.04.2006. to 24.04.2006. u will find photos there.

This is a link to a site in english but I think it has less photos.

http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/

Here are links to some news videos.

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=16960@kcbs.dayport.com

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=25913&bw=


I am from bosnia and public here is just as divided about this as is public on this forum. I think that estimates about the age of this building are not right but it is certain that Osmanagic has dicovered something huge here.

[Duane]

I just watched an episode of Discovery, wherein they discussed this find. Thyey noted that theses are the only pyramids in Europe, and showed some footage of the site, including a cleared area where Osmanajik says there are formed stones which make the wall of the complex.

Frankly, I couldn't see anything which clearly said "manmade", but I'm not an archaeologist.

I noted that at the end of the program there was a blurb that mentioned the claims are coming under increasing skepticism from archaeologists and other scientists and that more research is being called for.

[snarkophilus]

The pyramids have been refuted by the Archaeological Institute of America.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/

The best part of that article is the new words you can learn from it:

And the term "pyramidiot" has been applied to those obsessed with pyramids and who offer strange interpretations of them on websites and in books and televsion programs.

[Trantor]

Thanks for the article. Yes, I figured something was not right when they mentioned 12,000 years old for a construction time. I wonder if this guy is associated with the Edgar Cayce Foundation in any way.

The Cayce Foundation has been throwing around that same time period as the date that the Atlantian survivers began building the Great Pyramids. A few years ago, I remember a few "archaeologists" that were trying to prove Cayce right.

[eburacum45]

From here
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/article01.asp?id=237

Opponents of the project are, however, horrified at the prospect of irreparable damage to an area they believe is important enough to be a tourist attraction without a pyramid, yet warrants further archaeological research. Enver Imamovic of the University of Sarajevo, a former director of the National Museum of Sarajevo, said that the excavations would “irreversibly destroy a national treasure”, while another Bosnian archaeologist told The Art Newspaper that it would be like “letting a group of amateurs dig around Stonehenge”.

and from here (thanks Emps)
http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/280-Pyramid-I-see-no-pyramid-here.html

Where are the tools marks?

Where are the artefacts?

Where is the civilisation that made this? Central Europe has a long and excellent history of archaeology - the construction of such a pyramid would require infrastructure, there would be evidence of older simpler pyramids and other monumental buildings based on similar principles/technology/cultural underpinnings.

How does a pyramid get evenly covered in soil so it still looks pyramidal? Such a huge structure would tend to get buried from the base upwards resulting in a much more blurred and curved profile with erosion uncovering sharp edges and the like.

[Black Mamba]

Opponents of the project are, however, horrified at the prospect of irreparable damage to an area they believe is important enough to be a tourist attraction without a pyramid, yet warrants further archaeological research. Enver Imamovic of the University of Sarajevo, a former director of the National Museum of Sarajevo, said that the excavations would “irreversibly destroy a national treasure”, while another Bosnian archaeologist told The Art Newspaper that it would be like “letting a group of amateurs dig around Stonehenge

this is biggest lie

1. bosnian archelogist babich who signed petiton against this excavation visited this place, and he said that they do this job profesionally, they dont destroy anythig and he changed his mind after the visit , may be he shall join them to excavate




Where are the tools marks?

Where are the artefacts?


they have found 24 000 neolithic artefacts 7000 years old, in that area , last year , and artefacts are in visoko museum





How does a pyramid get evenly covered in soil so it still looks pyramidal? Such a huge structure would tend to get buried from the base upwards resulting in a much more blurred and curved profile with erosion uncovering sharp edges and the like.

[Blob]

Hum,
Curtis Runnels, a specialist in the prehistory of Greece and the Balkans at Boston University, notes that "Between 27,000 and 12,000 years ago, the Balkans were locked in the last Glacial maximum, a period of very cold and dry climate with glaciers in some of the mountain ranges. The only occupants were Upper Palaeolithic hunters and gatherers who left behind open-air camp sites and traces of occupation in caves. These remains consist of simple stone tools, hearths, and remains of animals and plants that were consumed for food. These people did not have the tools or skills to engage in the construction of monumental architecture."

"These reports are irresponsible on the part of journalists. These claims are completely unsupported with any kind of factual evidence, such as artefacts or photographs of the alleged architectures. They have not been confirmed by archaeologists who have the training and competence to evaluate them."

Some in the academic establishment maintain that the kind of project Osmanagic is running is far worse than just misleading the gullible public.

"The situation of professional heritage management in Bosnia-Herzegovina is in a poor state, with a tiny number of people trying to do what they can to protect their rich heritage from looting and unmonitored or unauthorised development. It adds insult to injury when rich outsiders can come in and spend large sums pursuing their absurd theories, in ways that most other countries would never countenance, instead of devoting their cash to the preservation of the endangered genuine sites and monuments in which Bosnia-Herzegovina abounds." - Anthony Hardy, president European Association of Archaeologists.

In one of the few critical accounts of the Bosnian pyramid story, the University of Sarejevo's Enver Imamovic is quoted as saying, "This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, perform surgery in hospitals."

There is public outcry within Bosnia, and an online petition that seeks to shut down Osmanagic's project. But he apparently has backers within the federal government and the Sarejevo city government. Whether he is allowed to continue or not is unresolved for now, and his website makes no mention of any controversy. And even when the mainstream media catch up and realise that the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" is no such thing, it will have entered the annals of fantastic archaeology and will have a multitude of believers and defenders.

Source: Archaeology Magazine

[Fram]

Those pictures do not look like a professional excavation at all, perhaps they can e compared to what you can see at urgent excavations (the kind you get when you have one month to dig through a whole site before it gets destroyed for a building or so), not like any serious excavation where you have all the time (I don't think those mountains will be erased anytime soon otherwise).
What is found looks Roman to me, and is important, but is not at all what is claimed by the adventurer leading the digs.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I like how they're making a path, when you can see that the stones extend further on each side of their dig.

Also, how does one "bury" a massive pyramid like this? :think:

[Titana]

Bosnian Pyramid, Great Discovery or Collosal Hoax? (http://www.livescience.com/history/060504_bosnia_controversy.html)



Photos released by the media and made available on Osmanagic's website show a series of stone plates buried just beneath the top layer of soil and vegetation. Despite the tests and pictures, some archaeologists aren't convinced by his claims.

"Clearly there are voids or something similar in the rock, but that is a long way from saying these are man-made," said Anthony Harding, president of the European Association of Archaeologists.



Titana

[Black Mamba]

Photos released by the media and made available on Osmanagic's website show a series of stone plates buried just beneath the top layer of soil and vegetation. Despite the tests and pictures, some archaeologists aren't convinced by his claims.

of course they are not convinced when they never visited this place

wtf , come and see for yourself not sit in the office and critisaize , **** :evil:


"Clearly there are voids or something similar in the rock, but that is a long way from saying these are man-made," said Anthony Harding, president of the European Association of Archaeologists.

archelogist and geologist who work tehre say that this is man-made

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=25531

[NEOWatcher]

of course they are not convinced when they never visited this place

wtf , come and see for yourself not sit in the office and critisaize , **** :evil:
The onus is on the person with the extrordinary claim. Let's wait for good evidence before arguing.


archelogist and geologist who work tehre say that this is man-made

Who's that? From the article...

the background of Osmanagic, who has no formal archaeological training. SNIP A self-described archaeologist,SNIP Many of those conducting the fieldwork at Visoko are local volunteers, not professionals.

[Black Mamba]

archelogist silvana cobanov
geologist nadja nukich and other geologist from university in sarajevo





Quote:
the background of Osmanagic, who has no formal archaeological training. SNIP A self-described archaeologist,SNIP Many of those conducting the fieldwork at Visoko are local volunteers, not professionals.

this is lie, he he is not archeologist, he dont even call himslef an archelogist

he is adventurer whit great expiernce and knowledge whit pyramids in the world

second lie , that there is no prefesionals there, there is real profesional geologist, archelogists, geofysist who work there , volonters just digg there, hard work you know,

[Titana]

wtf , come and see for yourself not sit in the office and critisaize , ****

Cough...cough...what does the wtf stand for......????....:naughty:




Titana

[R.A.F.]

From what I've read, there is certainly not enough information to arrive at any type of conclusion concerning this "hill".


...he is not archeologist...

No...Osmanagic is a business man...so the first question that pops into my mind?

Is this "pyramid" good for business??

[Black Mamba]

No...Osmanagic is a business man...so the first question that pops into my mind?

Is this "pyramid" good for business??

i dont know, but he said that he never will take any money for this

he even pay of his own money to this researshm aroubd 20 000 dollars

:clap:

[Andre]

It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth.' and so it goes away. Puzzling.

Robert M. Pirsig

[Blob]

Hum,
Yeah, well even i, without any archaeological knowledge, would discount his theory.
But i personally wouldn't discount a nearer date for massive hill landscaping by Iron Age tribes.
Though, given the size of the hill it would be on a pre-existing geological feature, and be just cosmetic landscaping.

Given his outlandish claim, it is conventional to assume that the conservative view of archaeological experts are correct, and that the onus is on Osmanagic to prove his theory.

The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.

[Black Mamba]

Given his outlandish claim, it is conventional to assume that the conservative view of archaeological experts are correct, and that the onus is on Osmanagic to prove his theory.



The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.

who told you that ????

how can you say so when you are not a geolog , and you have not been there ????

do you know that geologists who work there said that stone blocks placed there , in that area it is not common such stone blocks


you can clearly see that stone blocks where placed , stone blocks on stone blocks in several layers

[Fram]

Is that last picture one block that has broken into pieces, or different blocks put together to make a wall (or floor or whatever)?
If they are different pieces, then why would you make such strange shapes?
So for the moment I assume that this is one slab of rock that has been broken. I wonder how that happened...
The thickness and uniform look of the layer above the rock does not give the impression of great age, but that is hard to be certain from a picture.
It looks (http://bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Excavations/308776img01-1.jpg) to me, by the way, that underneath those rocks, there is again sand. This suggests that it is a hill shaped (or simply paved, perhaps it is a roman or medieval road or remnants of buildings?), not a true pyramid like the Egyptian ones.

This picture (http://bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Excavations/66661Grava__o_editada.jpg) in the gallery is a mirrored one, by the way, i.e. only half of it is real. This is not labeled as such. The inscription looks rather new as well, but again this is hard to see on a pic. Where this rock comes from is not indicated either.

There is something there (which was known before our businessman arrived), but I hope our chance of having a good excavation of it is not ruined by this rushed, amateur operation...

[Blob]

To me the rocks looks like they have been smoothed by glaciation. The fracturing looks quite natural.

Try reading this link to Archaeology magazine it has a host of professionals who have spoken against the `evidence`.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/index.html

I have a open mind on this, but i will state again - The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.

http://static.flickr.com/34/96866877_e3f960f2d8_o.jpg
Opportunity rover image on Sol 725
Credit NASA/JPL

[Blob]

Hum,
Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko.

The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visoèica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical processes in post-Miocene era.

According to Professor Vrabac who specialises in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Source (http://peticija.white.prohosting.com/us.htm)

[Trantor]

I'm no expert and I have only seen this site from the pictures provided; but I have hiked in mountains many times over the years, and have seen many natural rock formations that look very similar to those pictures.

The 12,000 year old date given for the site is not a good sign.

Hopefully some real experts will take control and do some work there.

[Ara Pacis]

I think I know what happened. The Bosnian Pyramid was the natural archtype. All later manmade pyramids were modeled on it because it was the site of an ancient people with magical powers. Can I get a book deal now? :D

[Fram]

Thanks, Blob. I don't think this will stop everyone, but at least it will stop a lot of curious but sceptic people intowasting their time. Let's just hope that it stops the excavation itself, so a proper, slow one can be done later for those parts that are interesting (the settlement on the top, perhaps the tunnels).

[Black Mamba]

Hum,
Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko.

The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visoèica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical processes in post-Miocene era.

According to Professor Vrabac who specialises in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.


beacuse those geologists came to Visoko first day, and only 2 hours they where on that place , they even did not excavate nothing , and they just disipear

and today i got news that those geologists get payed to say so, maybe to stop excavations, relly bad things happing around this pyramid, it is like some movie, some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations :(

do you know what they analized and came to that conclusion, they analized latest book of osmangich , hahahahah nad made such conclusion , so unprofesionall :hand: enough is enough

real profesionals are on the field on the pyramid in visoko



Thanks, Blob. I don't think this will stop everyone, but at least it will stop a lot of curious but sceptic people intowasting their time. Let's just hope that it stops the excavation itself, so a proper, slow one can be done later for those parts that are interesting (the settlement on the top, perhaps the tunnels).

problem whit all of you is that you dont know the real truth behind all this



just hope that it stops the excavation itself

never , i can garantie you, bosnian people are whit those who work there, even politicians which supriezed me a lot :surprised even polititian suport this project

only who dont suport this is jeolus bosnian archeologists and historians
if you only see them how they talk, how they lie to people , you would belive that osmanagich talk the truth, osmangich has arguments but those archelogist have nothing, only lies beacuse i saw it whit my own eyes


as i said, excavations going on very well, suport is comming from all places , and they have result, big stone blocks are found which form walls of the pyramid , in may egyptian experts are comming to bosnia and many many more volonters shall join them to excavate

[Duane]

Black Mamba: Please take the time to read our forum rules (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32864), and I would bring your attention especially to rules 2, 3 and 14.

This is a gentle warning.

[R.A.F.]

...some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations.

Oh I see now...it's all a big conspiracy...yeah, right.

"Color" me unimpressed.

[Black Mamba]

Translation audio commentary from one of the iniciators of the petition to stop the excavation of the Pyramid of the Sun, magister of archeology prof. Mirko Babić.


'After this TV documentaries and starting a petition against the excavation of the pyramid I finally came to the excavation site. It's Saturday, and here is 1st of May, so I decided to go on a little trip to see what really is happening here in Visoko. I dare to say that the most shocking and most daring history hypotesis is presented here by mr. Osmanagić, who built all his theories on a satellite shots which show us some strange stone structures in this valley. And his hypotesis was despised by the scientists who learned to look on everything from another point of view, and I must say that I can count myself in that group. But now that I'm here, it's obvious to me that we made mistakes in our description of Osmanagić's work. This indeed is the most important Bosnian archeological site from Middle-age and we cannot allow it to be destroyed, but now when I can see their work I must say that the ruins of old city of Visoko are not in any kind of danger ...(some irelevant things)... I am a member of a National Archeologic Museum Committee and I am sure that soon we will stand in public with new opinion of this work and this theory. ...(blablabla)... Now that I've seen all of this, I'm convinced that Osmanagić's intentions are of good nature, and that he's doing a completely legal job with his own economic resources so there is nothing bad to be said about him. Now I do believe that stones are not just a natural shape, but I'll have to spend much more time examining the whole case and they'll have to do much more excavation before I can accept his opinion that this is actually a pyramid.'

[snarkophilus]

Black Mamba, may I ask what your interest in this is? You have been rather vehement in your assertions that this is legitimate, but as far as I can see, you have no reason to be so certain. You've talked about having read geological reports of the area, and you claim to know all about it. Also, this seems to be the only thread you post to. When people have the slightest concerns, you jump all over them, posting dozens of pictures, without questioning the claimed result at all. (Aside: I note the pyramid in posts #62 and #82 doesn't look at all regular from the air.)

So what gives? What's your interest? Are you on site, a part of this dig perhaps?

[NEOWatcher]

Translation audio commentary from one of the iniciators of the petition to stop the excavation of the Pyramid of the Sun, magister of archeology prof. Mirko Babić.
SNIP but I'll have to spend much more time examining the whole case and they'll have to do much more excavation before I can accept his opinion that this is actually a pyramid.'
So his opinion is swayed but not convinced. Basically, he still waiting for convincing evidence just like us.
It is a pyramid...just natural ;)

[Lianachan]

some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations
What about all the other European pyramids? What stance do these mysterious conspirators have on those? The oldest dated pyramid anywhere in the world is in Greece - not too far from Bosnia, globally. How come that's cheerfully accepted?

[Black Mamba]

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/pdf/Bosnian%20pyramidsScientificReportMay2006.pdf

Scientific Report May 2006

[Fram]

Not very scientific foir a scientific report, I have to say. Not even an author.
Anyway, the topographic map seems to show that the pyramids are not so clear and even as suggested, as the height lines (isoheights? iso)something anyway) are not very square at all.
I don't see how the two thermal inertia maps are the same either. The second one looks like it has been made to fit, and does not resemble the square drawn on the first one. The argument from the thermal inertia map seems very flimsy anyway, as the rocks and hills around the pyramids all have the same characteristics.
By the way, on the topographic map as used on page 4 of the pdf ("anomalies"), are Visocica, Pljesevica, and Buci the three pyramids that form the equilateral equidistant triangle? It's just that it doesn't look like such an "exact" one as was claimed a few pages further on. And again, they don't look like pyramids at all (certainly the latter two).

[Irishman]

All this talk of pyramids is strangely reminiscent.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/sheep.htm

Check out the pictures of features on Mars, including 5 sided pyramids with linear slopes and regular looking features. For fun, amuse yourself comparing the type of pyramidology being applied to the Bosnian "pyramids" with that done by Hoagland et al.

[eburacum45]

They are called contour lines; the iso word is Isohypse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isohypse) and I don't remember ever using it thirty years ago when studying geography at college.

But that is probably a failing in me, not my education.

[Fram]

They are called contour lines; the iso word is Isohypse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isohypse) and I don't remember ever using it thirty years ago when studying geography at college.

But that is probably a failing in me, not my education.

Thanks, Eburacum. Don't be too hard on yourself!

[Black Mamba]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/228/gradpira1dj.jpg
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6337/prilza0gg.jpg

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5333/blokov5ad.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/434/blokovi1sl.jpg

it is a stone pyramid

:hand: no doubt

[NEOWatcher]

it is a stone pyramid

:hand: no doubt

Yes doubt.

First; If you think that the pictures are so convincing, how about explaining or relating your thoughts to them. We can't read your mind as to why you think the pictures are significant. (and I believe posting pictures like this is a no-no)

Second; All I see is a rock strata that has been broken up over time. Why would an ancient civilization carve their rocks in curvy lines like that?

Third; is the last one supposed to be a path? If I removed a layer of topsoil just about anywhere, it would look like a path.

[Jim]

(I really hate to get into this, but...)

The first picture is fairly typical of any mountain or large hill that has been covered by topsoil over the years.

The second picture... Well, if those are supposed to be steps in a stairway, I'd fire the contractor. The are very uneven and stop in the middle of nowhere. (Or did the bottom of the pyramid erode away somehow?)

The next two pictures are further evidence that the contractor should be fired. (He couldn't cut straight?) Actually, both pictures look fairly typical of a sedimentary conglomerate bed.*

Sorry, it's an interesting geological structure, but you haven't shown anything yet that says "man made."

* "...conglomerates ... are very resistant to weathering and cap the tops of mountains throughout much of their extent."
http://www.uky.edu/KGS/rocksmn/conglomerate.htm

[Trantor]

Interesting pictures. It's kind of hard to tell whether they are excavating or building on the hill. Perhaps both activities are going on.

[Black Mamba]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5837/nova4gl.jpg

new photos , stone blocks from pyramid of the moon

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7135/mjes7ed.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7396/mjes18ci.jpg[/quote]

[R.A.F.]

We can't read your mind as to why you think the pictures are significant.

Simply posting images and stating "it's a pyramid" is not convincing, particularly not on a science board.


...and I believe posting pictures like this is a no-no.

I only have access to dial-up, and I've "almost" decided to ignore this thread simply because I'm getting very tired of waiting for the images to load...

[aurora]

I'm waiting to see the tool marks. The articles state that the blocks are shaped by human hands, so I should be able to see tool marks, as well as the tools themselves (they must have been stone tools) and the quarries where the blocks originated.

I'm also waiting to see if any of the other hills nearby are underlain with the same rock.

I see no mention of that in the article linked, but I did not read the entire article. I did hear the researcher interviewed on the NPR geo-quiz recently, and he came across as very much like a salesman, which immediately raised questions in my mind.

This would be really cool if it was true, I'll say that much.

[Fram]

Those last pictures don't look like a pyramid at all (circular? That's a ziggurat then...), and pure from small pics look like a medieval stair, a road towards the castle / building on top.
I still have not seen any evidence that there is a pyramid, and I have not seen any evidence that there is any stone building (construction) older than Roman time there.

[Black Mamba]

http://www.astraeamagazine.com/osmanagic_serie_radio_frm.html

interview with osmanagich , english, 27 min

[R.A.F.]

interview with osmanagich...

Yeah...that's 26 minutes of my life I'll never get back...thanks a lot.

First off, I couldn't help but noticed just how credulous the "interviewer" was. He must have congratulated Osmanagich on his "amazing disoveries" a dozen times or more.

Earlier in this thread, I asked the question, "is finding the pyramid good for business?" Evidently it is for Sam, as he intends to continue his "work" there for the next 5 to 10 years, all the while receiving government funds to finance that "work".

I remain unconvinced that there is a "pyramid" there, and I simply do not trust Mr. Osmanagich, Asteria magazine, or anyone associated with them to actually do an objective evaluation. I really don't care what they believe to be true...I'm "from Missouri" meaning that they must demonstrate to me (and others) that what they have "found" is anything more than "wishful thinking"...they have not done so...

Added...about 7 minutes into the "interview" Osmanagich mentions finding (inside the tunnels??) monoliths with "inscriptions". I'd like to know why we have not seen images of these "inscriptions"? (or did I miss that.)

edited to fix sloppy wording.

[Fram]

There have been some pictures of rocks with images on them (at least one of them was mirrored without mentioning that, which gave a weird effect and did not add to their credibility). AFAIK, no info was given on where those rocks were found, by whom, and so on. But then again, no info on the excavations is given whatsoever, only fancy pictures, often without any indication of the scale or so (normally, all pictures in an archaeological dig have some measurement indicator). I presume these will come once the peer reviewed papers arrive...

[Black Mamba]

monoliths with "inscriptions". I'd like to know why we have not seen images of these "inscriptions"? (or did I miss that.)

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/23042006/img09.jpg
here


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/12052006/img13.jpg


this stairs is not pyramid stairs , it is close to the pyramid
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/11052006/IMG15.jpg

http://www.visocko-oko.co.ba/q17.jpg


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4575/pirasoonovo1qj.jpg

[Fram]

Black Mamba, I appreciate the swift response and the effort you put in this, but can you please just link to the images instead of posting them? This will reduce the load (internet connection) for those people that have slow internet, while everyone that wants to can still see the images, and see where they come from.

[R.A.F.]

Black Mamba...The 1st image you've posted could read "Kilroy was here" from all I can tell (it's not very clear), and it doesn't really convince me of anything. You have yet to tell us just why it convinces you.

Please do so.


...can you please just link to the images instead of posting them?

I've previously asked for the same...with no results...

[01101001]

I've previously asked for the same...with no results...
I'll ask, too. Black Mamba, Please stop putting pictures in-line. 1) Use links. 2) With the link, provide a statement of what the picture depicts and why you think it is important that people see it.

What is it and why should we care?

I'm tired of the unnarrated travelogue.

[R.A.F.]

Try reading this link to Archaeology magazine it has a host of professionals who have spoken against the `evidence`.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/index.html

I neglected to look at this link (until just now)...it really "says it all".

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Bosnian Pryamid" didn't somehow fit in with his "alien beliefs".

My conclusion? Sam is a woowoo, and as such, shouldn't this thread be moved to BABBling? There is really no science involved here.

[antoniseb]

It really isn't clear where this thread belongs. I plan to leave it here on the idea that this is on the boundary between legitimate Archaeology and something goofy that might belong in Off-Topic Babbling. I don't think it really fits in Conspiracy or Against-The-Mainstream.

[Nicolas]

Can somebody also tell me why we have not yet seen pictures from the "hudreds of meters of tunnels" that have been explored? We see 8 meters. I would say that pictures from inside the tunnels would be quite interesting from a fund raising perspective...

As for the rest, as the dig-up objects are bounded by ground surrounding them, it is hard to tell whether the visible part is relevant for the total shape of the stones. And that round stairs do not prove there's a 12000 year old pyramid there. I thought it was previously well known it was a medieval site, so it isn't too surprisingly that stairs like that are found there.

From what info did the main researcher already get such an outlandish theory?

This story was in a free newspaper in the trains this week, and even they were skeptical :).

[Black Mamba]

Originally Posted by Blob
Try reading this link to Archaeology magazine it has a host of professionals who have spoken against the `evidence`.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/fe...gic/index.html


I neglected to look at this link (until just now)...it really "says it all".

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Bosnian Pryamid" didn't somehow fit in with his "alien beliefs".

My conclusion? Sam is a woowoo, and as such, shouldn't this thread be moved to BABBling? There is really no science involved here.
__________________

people people

markrose was not tehre he has not seen anything , that is why you can not belive what he says, he biggest argument against pyramid

"it is impossible"


I wouldn't be surprised if the "Bosnian Pryamid" didn't somehow fit in with his "alien beliefs".

it is not his beliefs, he found it in maya scripts


from national geographic


In response, the executive editor of New York-based Archaeology magazine, Mark Rose, blasted Osmanagic as a quack and the press as gullible.

To emphasize his case, Rose quoted from online excerpts of a 2005 book by Osmanagic about the Maya.

Passages from the book suggest the Maya descended from the people of the mythical city of Atlantis, who themselves are aliens who came to Earth from the Pleiades star cluster.

Osmanagic counters that the material was misrepresented and was not his theory, but an interpretation of a Maya codex, or ancient book.



tonight egyptian expert comming to bosnia to see if hill is natural formation or not

[R.A.F.]

Osmanagic counters that the material was misrepresented and was not his theory, but an interpretation of a Maya codex, or ancient book.

Interpretation??? Whose interpretation? Osmanagic's??

Sounds to me like a "re-hash" of Von Daniken and Sitchin.

I will ask you again, Black Mamba...just WHY are you so impressed by this "stuff"??

[Black Mamba]

I will ask you again, Black Mamba...just WHY are you so impressed by this "stuff"??

i will tell you why

today is a great day, egyptian expert ali abdulah berekat has confirmed that bosnian hill is a pyramid after analasys, he said that stone blocks are man made, and they where same material as in egyptian pyramids


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/15052006/15050601.jpg

berekat with osmanagich


moon pyramid

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/15052006/15050605.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/14052006/14050622.jpg

[Trantor]

It seems to me that Black Mamba may be involved with this pyramid project in some way. Maybe he lives in the area and wants this to be a new tourist attraction. If the pyramid was true, it would translate into a big flow of money into the area.

[Nicolas]

i will tell you why

today is a great day, egyptian expert ali abdulah berekat has confirmed that bosnian hill is a pyramid after analasys, he said that stone blocks are man made, and they where same material as in egyptian pyramids


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/15052006/15050601.jpg

berekat with osmanagich


moon pyramid

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/15052006/15050605.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/14052006/14050622.jpg

Do you have a link to the source saying he has confirmed and some details on that?

Without context a confirmation does not tell me a lot, after all an egyptologist confirmed the pyramids were made from concrete to name just one confirmation. So source please.

(btw: DOUBLE KILOPI!! :))

[R.A.F.]

today is a great day, egyptian expert ali abdulah berekat has confirmed that bosnian hill is a pyramid after analasys, he said that stone blocks are man made, and they where same material as in egyptian pyramids.

I would love to be able to verify any of that...but after a web search, the only reference that I can find for berekat is in a language other than english.

I did, however, find the following...

LONDON -- Following a report published in The Art Newspaper last month, more than 20 Bosnian archaeologists, museum directors and historians have issued a statement condemning an amateur archaeologist's search for a pyramid at Visoko Hill, near the remains of Bosnia's medieval royal capital.

The statement, issued on 22 April, strongly criticised the controversial excavations being conducted by Texas-based entrepreneur Semir "Sam" Osmanagic. He believes that there is a "valley of the kings" of up to four pyramids in the archaeologically-rich area.

On 14 April, surrounded by journalists, Mr Osmanagic began digging. With no internationally accredited archaeologists present, the excavations were carried out by mine workers from nearby Kakanj.

Stone slabs bearing inscriptions were soon discovered, and Mr Osmanagic declared the hill to be "the mother of all pyramids". On 19 April, as enough evidence of genuine archaeological importance had emerged, the ministry of culture suspended Mr Osmanagic's permit until a commission of experts from the National Museum and the Commission to Protect National Monuments could inspect the area and report.

Despite this setback for Mr Osmanagic, the ministry has declared its backing for the project, which the outraged archaeologists describe as the equivalent of allowing an amateur to dig at Stonehenge. There has been surprise among academics at the level of official support for the project, which has been endorsed by the Mayor of Sarajevo, among others.

The site was visited by officials from Sarajevo and Zenica on 19 April, and the next day by the Prime Minister of the Bosnia-Herzegovina Federation, Ahmed Hadzipasic, a move that according to one Bosnian archaeologist, was a message to the ministry of culture not to create any obstacles. The prime minister declared that the pyramid was 12,000 years old and should become "a recognisable state project. He also said that
the pyramid was the most important thing to happen to Bosnia since the Dayton Accords.

The public statements issued by the experts from Sarajevo, Zenica, Bijeljina, Tuzla and Mostar demanded an "urgent ban on further digging in that archaeological area, currently being carried out by an unqualified person". If this is not carried out they threaten to approach "international organisations, including the International Council of Monuments and Sites and Unesco, to ask for the protection of national heritage from their own administration." It described the pyramid hunt as "a farce that is a laughing stock for the world."

Notice the last 2 sentence's of the 6th paragraph. The Prime minister has declared that the pyramid is 12,000 years old, and that it is the most important thing to happen to Bosnia...etc.

This isn't about science...it's about politics/money...and it becomes obviously so when you have a politician "declaring" what is and what isn't scientific fact.

The more I learn about this "pyramid", the more bogus it becomes...

I wonder why that is...??

[Black Mamba]

Do you have a link to the source saying he has confirmed and some details on that?


soon, soon

i have no english page , but soon

[Nicolas]

Bosnian source is fine as well in the meantime.

[NEOWatcher]

Do you have a link to the source saying he has confirmed and some details on that?
soon, soon

i have no english page , but soon
I would like to stress the word DETAILS.

All I've heard are people making claims, and nobody explaining why their claims are confirmed. All I see is "it is so, because I'm an expert". Even experts need facts to be convinced.

[Xbalanque]

I neglected to look at this link (until just now)...it really "says it all".

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Bosnian Pryamid" didn't somehow fit in with his "alien beliefs".

My conclusion? Sam is a woowoo, and as such, shouldn't this thread be moved to BABBling? There is really no science involved here.
I read through his The World of the Maya. One of the first things he writes is,


Flying over Central America, below me nothing but vast jungle. Why did the Maya build their monumental cities in the middle of such a wild and inhospitable territory?
As if the Maya built their cities in the middle of the jungle without clearing any of it away. The book only gets worse from there. Erich von Daniken has more credibility than this guy. :rolleyes:

[Fram]

I hope Black Mamba has spelled the name of the expert wrongly, as (like Nicolas said) not one reference to him can be found by Googling, which is bizarre...

After some further searching, it looks like it is about Ali Abdallah Berekat. Sadly, the only references I can find for him all have to do with his visit to the "pyramids". Idem dito for his companion Shafia Bedir.

The Ain Shems University, referenced in the articles about the two Egyptians, is actually the Ain Shams University (http://net.shams.edu.eg/), in Cairo. It has a Bachelor of Arts (no Master) in some fields of Archaeology. I can find no reference of a Bedir nor a Berekat, linked to it.

All this makes it hard to see how much value may be given to their comments...

[Nicolas]

Somebody else said that about the google hits, though my search turned up nothing as well :).

[aurora]

he said that stone blocks are man made, and they where same material as in egyptian pyramids



So, Bosnia has the same geological formation(s) as is in Egypt?

http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/pyramid.htm


Most of the stone for the Giza pyramids was quarried on the Giza plateau itself. Some of the limestone casing was brought from Tura, across the Nile, and a few of the rooms were cased with granite from Aswan.

[Petitioner10]

Bosnian source is fine as well in the meantime.
http://visoko.co.ba/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1147776144&archive=&start_from=&ucat=10&
It's all Sam says Egyptian guy said this and Sam says Egyptian guy said that. And we know how Sam tends to interpret things in a very peculiar manner.

Just found this, and I guess we know what it was that Sam was interpreting:
http://visoko.co.ba/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1147788157&archive=&start_from=&ucat=10&
Basically, what it says is that Ali looked at samples of a mortar-like material and said it was man-made (just by looking at it?) and of the same material used on egyptian pyramids (again, just by looking at it? I suspect this is a bald-faced LIE). And thus, it's a pyramid! quips Nadza, the local "geologist".:wall:

[Black Mamba]

16 May 2006

Egyptian experts back pyramid theory


Leading geologists from Egypt have confirmed that the pyramidal structure discovered near the town of Visocica is indeed a pyramid. Dr Aly Abd Barakat (an expert on Egyptian pyramids) visited two areas of excavation - the north and east faces - at the structure, which is now known as the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. His conclusions about the blocks on the eastern face is that they are of a similar construction to those found

in Egyption pyramids - the blocks are handmade and polished; in Egypt, stones were polished to reflect the sunlight. Barakat also believes that the blocks, 4m x 1.5m in size, were brought here from a different location. Some of the blocks in the eastern face of the pyramid have been laid on top of each other, to a depth of four blocks. This gives some

indication of the massive size of the ancient construction. After studying excavations on the north side of the pyramid, Barakat concludes that the blocks here are handmade and have been created using a mould to form the blocks, which consist of an ancient 'concrete'-like mix. He also noticed a white line some 0.5cm thick between the blocks, indicating a cement-like substance has been used to adhere

the blocks together. A similar method has been seen in the construction of the Egyptian pyramids. Barakat went on to visit another excavation site located at the base of Pljesevica Hill, which is named the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon.

He concludes that the 'steps' that form the sides of this pyramid are made by human hands. Some 20m above this part of the

excavations, he noticed a large number of blocks placed symetrically, proving they too are manmade.

[Petitioner10]

Leading geologists from Egypt have confirmed that the pyramidal structure discovered near the town of Visocica is indeed a pyramid.
Where exactly does he say this?

His conclusions about the blocks on the eastern face is that they are of a similar construction to those found in Egyption pyramids - the blocks are handmade and polished; in Egypt, stones were polished to reflect the sunlight.
Actually, egyptian pyramids were originaly covered in white tiles which reflected the sunlight.

[Black Mamba]

Where exactly does he say this?

if you can bosnian , here

video news in bosnian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsO9zsZWhNE&search=pyramid%20of%20the


<Removed cut and paste>

[Petitioner10]

Great. The dude says some rocks from taken from the base of the hill are man made (very surprising, considering the region has been inhabited since the stone age), and he gets intepreted as saying the hill is a pyramid. You can save the quotes from the crooks gatered around the "foundation" too, I'm not buying anything they say he said. :boohoo:

[Fram]

I still can't find any more references to Barakat, Berekat, or whatever the English transcription of his name is.

As for the cement-like substance, found between the rocks: in the Egyptian pyramids, this was done by gypsum mixed with rubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids_construction_techniques).

A concrete-like mix to make blocks in a mould? I thought the pyramids of Egypt where made from true rocks (granite, limestone, basalt, ...), and mud bricks. This seems quite dissimilar to what is described for the Bosnian hill.
But it seems that Joseph Davidovits has suggested that the limestone of the Egyptian pyramids was indeed a concrete mix. But, as Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Davidovits) states:

His ideas are not accepted by mainstream Egyptologists.
Logically, if you start (http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/are-pyramids-made-out-of-concrete-1-the-solution) with things like:

The website reveals how Ancient Egyptians built the pyramids using man-made stones, which look exactly like natural rocks.
Of course, Davidovits also has his own ideas (http://www.davidovits.info/34/the-pyramids-in-bosnia-europe-perhaps-in-roman-concrete) about the Bosnian Pyramid (it's a small world after all...).

If Berekat follows this idea, then you can wonder if his other ideas are more mainstream or if he perhaps likes the more outlandish claims, which would explain his support (so far only reported by Osmanagic himself) for the Bosnian pyramid hypothesis.

[NEOWatcher]

16 May 2006

Egyptian experts back pyramid theory
I read that article as: the hill is shaped like a pyramid, and there are man made blocks on the hill.

That, in no way, indicates that it is a man made structure.

[Trantor]

This is all very fishy. We have the Bosnian government trying to make some money, and we have a group of newagers that are searching for some evidence of the lost civilization of Atlantis.

The Edgar Cayce Foundation and other believers in the Atlantis Myth have been on a mission to prove that Atlantis did in fact exist for many years now. A few years ago, there was some noise being made about some evidence that the Sphinx was actually around 10,000 years old. The "experts" making those claims, said that because of the evidence of water errosion at the Sphinx site, it proved that an older civilization had actually built it. This older civilization then tranfered their knowledge to the Egyptians. The older civilization was never named.

Now we have a newly discovered pyramid. And surprise, surprise, it also happens to be 12,000 years old. A lot of noise being made again, same as before. Like before, real scientists are not buying it.

When will these believers in the Atlantis Myth throw in the towel? These people remind me of the Intelligent Design/creationist crowd; They have nothing that can be proved, but they always keep trying to muddy the waters.

[Fram]

Well, the mysterious Berekat has now been transformed into this (http://bosnian-pyramid.com/news.html):

Ali Abdullah Berekat, the leading egyptian pyramid expert.
Well, if he is the leading expert, then how can we doubt his claims?

But allow me to again voice my doubts that "the leading Egyptian pyramid expert" can be a person who yields no Google hits at all (when looking for Berekat pyramid) except for those about his visit to Bosnia... No publications, no references, no interviews, ...

Either his name is not Berekat but something similar, or he is not the Leading Egyptian pyramid expert. There seems to be a Dr. Ali Barakat from Egypt's Geological Survey Authority
I can find a Drs. Gabor Barakat (from the University of Cairo) on this page (http://www.robertschoch.net/Redating%20the%20Great%20Sphinx%20of%20Giza.htm) about the Sphinx being Neolithic (about 10,000 years old). If (and it's a big if) this is the same Barakat, then it is not a mark in his favor.

There is also an A.A.Barakat who is co-author (http://medias.obs-mip.fr/eclipse/web/ajoutDocumentsDL/LeCaire-fevrier2003.pdf) (31 page pdf) of "Meteoritic element within sandstone from the Lybian glass area Southwestern Egypt", whatever that may be.
I'll look further later on.

[Black Mamba]

Now we have a newly discovered pyramid. And surprise, surprise, it also happens to be 12,000 years old. A lot of noise being made again, same as before. Like before, real scientists are not buying it.

all real scientists who visited this place believe that this is a real pyramid

those scientists who critisize this , have not visited this place , they critisize this from their offices :naughty: if you believe them , fine , just fine




When will these believers in the Atlantis Myth throw in the towel? These people remind me of the Intelligent Design/creationist crowd; They have nothing that can be proved, but they always keep trying to muddy the waters.

nobdoy said that bosnian pyramids are atlantis, osmangich never said that


but but but

i think this pyramids might be atlantis , maybe

[Nicolas]

Black Mamba, can you give the exact name of that Egyptian scientist?

If we are not sure about all letters, we might end up with Burt Bacharach and we wouldn't want that, now would we ;) :D

[R.A.F.]

all real scientists who visited this place believe that this is a real pyramid...

Well, then...when they present convincing evidence, they will be taken seriously. Unfortunately, they way they are "going about this" does NOT fill me with confidence..


...those scientists who critisize this , have not visited this place , they critisize this from their offices :naughty: if you believe them , fine , just fine

Have you read just why there is criticism of this "pyramid"?


nobdoy said that bosnian pyramids are atlantis, osmangich never said that.

He has a "track record" of wacky ideas, which is something that simply can not be ignored. It's not our fault that Sam brings "baggage" to this "investigation".


but but but

i think this pyramids might be atlantis , maybe

I thought that was "located" in the Bermuda Triangle.

[Trantor]

but but but

i think this pyramids might be atlantis , maybe

Yes, that's what I figured. Yet another useless search for proof of Atlantis.

Talk to the Cayce folks, they can tell you much about Atlantis; power crystals, Atlantian death rays, Atlantian spaceships, Atlantian genetic experiments, and let's not forget - advanced pyramid construction technology. It's all there.

Anyway, I hope some good will come from digging in the area. You guys might just stumble upon some real ancient artifacts that have nothing to do with Atlantis. I just hope that nothing important is accidentally destroyed in the process.

[Petitioner10]

if you can bosnian , here[/B]
I can bosnian and he doesn't say it. Oh, and he's a geologist, not an archaeologist.

He has a "track record" of wacky ideas, which is something that simply can not be ignored.
I bet you didn't know Hitler survived and moved to the South Pole? Well, Sam's got news for you!

Hitler leaves the body of a distant relative in the bunker. The Russians don't find the trophy they expected and hush it up...
He is transported with a close circle of politicians, generals and scientists "south". The german war machine has been dismantled. The war has ended. History has been written.
Also, the aliens are experimenting on humans in Dulce (somewhere in USA)

Allegedly, underground is a joint alien-government biogenetic laboratory where bizare experiments are conducted on humans and animals
And why are the aliens here?

The aliens don't want our land, gold, minerals or water. Not even human or animal life. What they want is the magnetic force running through and around planet Earth. The aliens use this force in magical ways unknown to us.

[Black Mamba]

I can bosnian and he doesn't say it. Oh, and he's a geologist, not an archaeologist


dont lie here , he said it look man . look


<Removed cut and paste>
hajde sad fino pljuni sam sebe ulice i cupaj kosu, hahahahah



international media

MSNBC, Reuters

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12837694/from/RSS/
<removed copyrighted cut and paste>

Edit by tinaa for spelling

[Petitioner10]

First article, source not listed (undoubtedly from one of Sam's sites)


Iznad Visokog se definitivno nalazi piramida, samo je potrebno ustanoviti kada i na koji način je građena, kazao je juče Ali Abdulah Berekat, doktor geologije i jedan od vodećih egipatskih stručnjaka za istraživanje piramida.
Translation: There is definitely a pyramid over Visoko, we only have to establish how it was constructed, Ali Abdulah Berekat, phd (geology) and one of the leading egyptian experts in pyramids said yesterday.

MSNBC article:

An Egyptian geologist said on Wednesday that a hill in central Bosnia appeared to be a primitive human-made pyramid of uncertain age.
Now as far as I can tell, this man has not met one single person familiar with the archaeological or geological history of the area and was given a tour with a volunteer as a translator, so I can understand his susceptability to suggestions (by various "experts") that it might be a "pyramid". But even so, he's very far from coming out with a "confirmation".

The mod will probably be interested in this bit as well:

hajde sad fino pljuni sam sebe ulice i cupaj kosu, hahahahah
Translation: Now spit in your face and pull your hair, hahahaha

[01101001]

Let me illustrate your own idiocy to you:
[...]
Grow a brain compatriot.

While I sympathize with your frustration in trying to explain the scientific study of real pyramids, your method of ad hominem is not persuasive to anyone. Attack the incorrect ideas with good facts and logic. Don't label as idiotic or brainless the supporter of incorrect ideas.

(See Rules for posting to this board (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=564845), Number 2: Civility and decorum.)

Thanks.

[Petitioner10]

While I sympathize with your frustration in trying to explain the scientific study of real pyramids, your method of ad hominem is not persuasive to anyone. Attack the incorrect ideas with good facts and logic. Don't label as idiotic or brainless the supporter of incorrect ideas.

(See Rules for posting to this board (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=564845), Number 2: Civility and decorum.)

Thanks.
Sorry, I stooped to his level (see translation above). It's edited out now. BTW, I was targeting his selective perception and lack of common sense rather than his ideas. As for frustration, imagine living in a country where such things are allowed to happen.

[Jim]

The aliens don't want our land, gold, minerals or water. Not even human or animal life. What they want is the magnetic force running through and around planet Earth. The aliens use this force in magical ways unknown to us.

Like, bending spoons.

[Petitioner10]

Like, bending spoons.
I always knew Geller had to be one of THEM!

[Nicolas]

What they want is the magnetic force running through and around planet Earth. The aliens use this force in magical ways unknown to us.

Et voila!! No glue people! Do you feel glue ma'am? No? No glue! It's magic I tell you! :D

[Fram]

The more I look at it, the less I trust the judgment of Dr. Ali Barakat. It turns out that he has also already "found" the lost army of Cambyses (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:b-eHcGFqFj4J:www.sino-eco.org/current/Newsletter/Sino_EcoNewsles01_05.pdf+ali+barakat+pyramid&hl=nl&gl=be&ct=clnk&cd=30&client=firefox-a) in Egypt, so it looks to me that he is more interested in spectacle than in science. Apparently, a show about this has been made by ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200407/highlights/234406.htm) from Australia.
The only publications I can find are a few geological ones (about impact craters in Libya), so I doubt many people would consider him the leading Egyptian pyramid expert...
Next!

[NEOWatcher]

snip
Now as far as I can tell, this man has not met one single person familiar with the archaeological or geological history of the area and was given a tour with a volunteer as a translator, so I can understand his susceptability to suggestions (by various "experts") that it might be a "pyramid". But even so, he's very far from coming out with a "confirmation".
Me thinks you hit on the entire problem. This might all be a case of "Lost in the translation".

Since there is a language disparity, the "experts" are not correctly understood. So now you have a group that wants to believe it's man-made, so they are going to interpret it from thier own understanding. Naturally; they are going to hear the word "pyramid" when instead it might have been said as "pyramid like".

What we need here is untranslated sources of information or "evidence" from experts outside the country.

[Nicolas]

The more I look at it, the less I trust the judgment of Dr. Ali Barakat. It turns out that he has also already "found" the lost army of Cambyses (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:b-eHcGFqFj4J:www.sino-eco.org/current/Newsletter/Sino_EcoNewsles01_05.pdf+ali+barakat+pyramid&hl=nl&gl=be&ct=clnk&cd=30&client=firefox-a) in Egypt, so it looks to me that he is more interested in spectacle than in science. Apparently, a show about this has been made by ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200407/highlights/234406.htm) from Australia.
The only publications I can find are a few geological ones (about impact craters in Libya), so I doubt many people would consider him the leading Egyptian pyramid expert...
Next!

Wait a second, I remember somebody who "discovered" almost everything. He found proof of wood of the Ark in Turkey (that spot is well known), he also found blood of Christ, the Holy Grail...he isn't one of the actors here right? Tell me I am mixing people up. :eh:

[Fram]

No, that was some 11th or 12th century adventurer, one of the followers of Godfried of Bouillon :D

I have no idea who you mean, but these were all the references I could find for Aly Barakat (and the one referenced in the prehistoric Sphinx story is probably another Barakat, as the name is not that rare). It doesn't look like this one is such a (well-known) quack, but he is not the expert the Bosnian Pyramid defenders want him to be.

[Nicolas]

False alarm, I was thinking of Ron Wyatt (see also Jonathan Gray). He is not linked to the Bosnian pyramid though.

btw Helena, daughter of Emperor Constantine also was an "interestingly successful archeaologist". ;) :)

[snarkophilus]

Me thinks you hit on the entire problem. This might all be a case of "Lost in the translation".

Something along the lines of "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"? I don't believe it for a second.

1) No actual science is coming out of this. We've yet to see an actual tunnel or artifact or man-made stone that relates to the claimed period.
2) They're publishing their "science" in the press, a la Pons and Fleischmann. Not good practice. On the Internet, even worse.
3) At least one of the pictures shown to us was manipulated (mirrored). That's just not right.
4) False claims about the credentials of the scientists involved.
5) Many experts, including members of associations that publish peer-reviewed journals, have attacked these claims, providing a bit of evidence for why they are unlikely to be true.
6) There's a lot of money involved for a lot of people. While that's not bad in itself, at the very least it should say that they should be more careful about the above points.

[peter eldergill]

It sounds like the old "I've made my mind up already and am trying to fit the evidence to my theory". Most of the photos shown looked natural to me, in that I would have said "neat, those rocks look like stairs" or something.

I'm also reminded of that place in Ireland with the hexagonal rock formation (It's on the cover of Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy) but I can't remember the name. It's a very famous place.

I've seen rocks in Bermuda that looked manmade, but it was natural. Same in northern Ontario.

Pete

[Jim]

I'm also reminded of that place in Ireland with the hexagonal rock formation ...

The Giant's Causeway
http://www.geographia.com/northern-ireland/ukiant01.htm

[peter eldergill]

Thanks, Jim

[Essan]

A question I've asked elsewhere (and recieved in return only scorn and abuse from the 'believers' for making such ridiculous comments ;) ) is "where is the quarry?"

To build a pyramid the size of a hill you'd need to quarry stone the size of, well, a hill. That's a pretty big hole.

So where is it? ;)

[Fram]

Ah, that's where the 'not stones but concrete that looks like stones" theory comes in. You don't need a quarry, you don't need a mechanism to transport the stones, ... no explanations needed anymore.
In the case of Egypt, this doesn't explain why we do have a quarry (oops!), nor why no one seems to have noticed that the stones from the pyramids are cast, not cut, even though they have all the markings of a cut stone, and none of a cast one.

[DirtGeologist]

Black Mamba wrote

"new photos , stone blocks from pyramid of the moon

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7135/mjes7ed.jpg
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7396/mjes18ci.jpg "

Far from being evidence of any pyramid, the above links, which Black Mamba provided are classic examples of jointed bedrock. Additional pictures can be found at:

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianPyramidOfMoon/moon2.jpg
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianPyramidOfMoon/moon3.jpg

All of these pictures clearly show finely layered bedrock in the cut face of the excavation. The layer of alleged pavement / man-made blocks extend into and beneath the layered bedrock exposed in the face of the "excavations". In these pictures, Mr. Osmanagic is clearly engaged in excavating jointed bedrock and his experts clearly lack the understanding of geology needed to distinguishing man-made blocks from jointed bedrock.

the regularity and systematic orientation of the joints forming the blocks shown in these pictures is actually quite common in outcrops of orthogonally jointed layers of sedimentary rock. In arid regions or in wave-cut benches, where a layer of soil does not hide the underlying bedrock, a person can find many example of jointed bedrock as seen in the above pictures of "excavations" of the Bosnian (pseudo)Pyramid of the Moon.

Several examples of orthogonal cross joints, similar to those shown in the above pictures can seen in figure 1 of:

Bai, T., Maertn, L., Gross, M. R., and Aydin, A., 2002, Orthogonal cross joints: Do they imply a regional stress rotation? Journal of Structural Geology. vol. 24, pp. 77-88.

This paper can be downloaded from:

http://pangea.stanford.edu/research/geomech/Software/publications/Bai_JSG_2002.pdf

A spectacular example of jointed bedrock is the "Tasmanian Tesselated Pavement" found at Eagle head Neck Tasmania. Some web pages illustrating the orthogonal jointing exhibited in this wave cut bench can be seen at:

1. http://www.ozoutback.com.au/postcards/postcards_forms/tasmania/Source/6.htm

2. "Tesselated pavement, Tasmans peninsula > Natural pavement,
Tasmans peninsular [sic]" at:

http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/Fullimage.asp?Letter=T&Title=Tesselated+pavement%2C+Tasmans+peninsula&ID=AUTAS001126183516

3. "Tesselated Pavement, Tamsmania" at:

http://www.australienbilder.de/serien/seiten/e-tas21.htm
and http://www.australienbilder.de/serien/bilder/tas21.jpg

4. "Eaglehawk Neck tesselated pavements" at:

http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/Fullimage.asp?Letter=E&Title=Eaglehawk+Neck+tesselated+pavements%3A+colle ction+of+postcards&ID=au-7-0016-125142836
and http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/tasimg/postcards/Eaglehawknecktesselatedpavements/12514283.jpg

The jointing at this location is far more regular and well-defined than seen at the Bosnian (pseudo)Pyramid of the Moon. Given that the jointing goes through multiple layers of rock, a person can find places, where rectangular blocks of stone of natural origin lie on top of each other.

A person should also look at "Tesselated Pavement by Mike Lowe" at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikelowe/5346384/in/set-134851/

Another spectacular set of jointed bedrock can be seen at Oil Mountain in Natrona County, Wyoming. The top of Oil Mountain is covered by acre after acre of a natural stone pavement composed of rectangular stone blocks. Some pictures are:

1. "Unsaturated Cross-Fold Fractures" at:

http://www.pe.utexas.edu/~jolson/utig-talk_files/v3_slide0227_image014.jpg

2. "Saturated Strike Joints" at:

http://www.pe.utexas.edu/~jolson/utig-talk_files/v3_slide0229_image011.jpg

These pictures are part of a lecture, "Spatial organization of natural fractures: A geomechanics approach" by Jon Olson, University of Texas (Austin) which can be found at:

http://www.pe.utexas.edu/~jolson/utig-talk_files/v3_document.htm

The natural origin of this rectangular pavement can be found in:

Hennings, Peter H., Olson, Jon E., and Thompson, Laird B., 2000,
Combining outcrop and three-dimensional structural modeling to
characterize fractured reservoirs: an example from Wyoming.
American Association of Petroleum Geologists Bulletin. vol. 84,
pp. 830-849.

Another natural pavement composed of rectangular stone blocks can be seen at http://www.pe.utexas.edu/~jolson/cedar-mesa.JPEG and http://www.pe.utexas.edu/~jolson/nat.frac.html .

Finally, there is "Ancient floor a work of nature, not nurture" by Gary Harmon and published in the August 15, 2005 Daily Sentielat at: http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/content/news/stories/2005/08/15/8_15_1A_tiled_floor_natural_WWW.html
and http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/09/05/85/image_1785059.jpg

In addition, Semir (Sam) Osmanagic and his experts also show a profound lack of knowledge about basic geology in that they failed to recognized that the Liesegang banding found in sandstone blocks at their alleged site as being of natural
origin. A classic example of such Liesegang banding is showed in the pictures at:

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianPyramid_circlesSlabs.jpg
and http://www.blogger.ba/slike/17111.245019.jpg .

Additional pictures of Liesegang banding can be seen at:

1. "Liesegang banding in Tapeats Sandstone, Deer Creek, mile 136.3" at:

http://www.aapg.org/slide_bank/grand_canyon/72.cfm

2. "Liesegang Rings" at:

http://www.huddersfieldgeology.supanet.com/images/ring1.jpg
and http://www.huddersfieldgeology.supanet.com/pages/p20envi.htm

3. "Fracture-controlled Liesegang banding in siltstone" at:
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~millerm/7LM20.jpeg
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~millerm/minfracs.html

The only thing which the picture posted by Black Mamba prove is that neither Sam Osmanagic nor his geological "experts"
understand anything about the differences between man-made blocks and jointed bedrock. His interpretations would not
survive even a minute at Geological Society of America Meeting or similar gathering of geologists. I wish I could see the comments, which result from peer-review, to any manuscript that he submits to publication in apeer-reviewed journal.

I am not surprised that he is the same person, who confused the broken fragments of thousands of fossil sand dollars with
human remains from Cambyses’ army.

[dougweller]

beacuse those geologists came to Visoko first day, and only 2 hours they where on that place , they even did not excavate nothing , and they just disipear

and today i got news that those geologists get payed to say so, maybe to stop excavations, relly bad things happing around this pyramid, it is like some movie, some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations :(

do you know what they analized and came to that conclusion, they analized latest book of osmangich , hahahahah nad made such conclusion , so unprofesionall :hand: enough is enough



These are extremely serious allegations, you have basically called them criminals.

It was Semir Osmanagic's foundation that asked and presumably paid them for the report.

I do not think you have any evidence for your claims. I don't think you have read their report. And the fact that you think they would have to excavate anything shows you don't understand their work.

Either provide evidence for your claims, or admit that you don't have any evidence and haven't read their report. Even Nadiju Nikic hasn't made the attacks on them you have (and exactly what is her expertise?).

Doug

[snarkophilus]

Thank you, DirtGeologist! Those were some very good links indeed. Such pretty pictures... and one could hope (but really, does not hope) that this would end the discussion. I especially liked the sand dollar story -- I really hope it's true and not just anecdotal. Heck, from what I've seen here, there's no reason to doubt it. :D

[Black Mamba]

clear evidence

moon pyramid
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/20052006/20050646.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/20052006/20050649.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/20052006/20050651.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/20052006/20050648.jpg


sun pyramid

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/21052006/21050620.jpg


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/images/podmeni/aktuelnosti/21052006/21050603.jpg


http://www.infobar.ba/2006/barometar/nove/piramida/pir-01.jpg

http://www.infobar.ba/2006/barometar/nove/piramida/pir-04.jpg

http://www.infobar.ba/2006/barometar/nove/piramida/pir-10.jpg

[Fram]

I'm no geologist, so this pictures may well deceive me into thinking that what Isee is manmade.
Anyway, they are clear evidence of what?
The first one shows piece of a wall which may be from any age, Roman or Medieval most probably. I have seen thousands of similar walls, some of them very close to prehistoric sites and half-buried. I didn't really think the people of the Magdalenien built them though...

The second picture looks much more like a natural formation to me, but anyway, these are small rocks that form something similar to a wall. So what?

Third and fourth are more of the same. If this is the clear evidence for the pyramid of the moon, then it is a pyramid of the gullible.

As for the pyramid of the sun: the first pic shows nothing (yeah, an excavation with lots of people). Second pic shows nothing as well.
Third pic is the hill which we have seen a hundred times by now. Fourth pic is a cracked rock surface.
But the final picture is the best one, as it looks terribly like a natural formation, and not at all like part of a pyramid.

So in what way do you consider these pictures as clear evidence for the existence of two pyramids there?

By the way, thanks for linking to the pictures instead of just posting them!

[R.A.F.]

clear evidence.

Nope. What you have done is post a number of images. (and thanks for linking to them.)


So in what way do you consider these pictures as clear evidence for the existence of two pyramids there?

I also would like an answer to this question. (it's been asked before.)

[dougweller]

These are extremely serious allegations, you have basically called them criminals.

It was Semir Osmanagic's foundation that asked and presumably paid them for the report.

I do not think you have any evidence for your claims. I don't think you have read their report. And the fact that you think they would have to excavate anything shows you don't understand their work.

Either provide evidence for your claims, or admit that you don't have any evidence and haven't read their report. Even Nadiju Nikic hasn't made the attacks on them you have (and exactly what is her expertise?).

Doug

You seem to have implicitly admitted that you are not telling the truth about the Tuzla geologists. As for not excavating, what part of the sentence "The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. " did you not understand?

6 drill holes is not just a 2 hour visit.

And it isn't just the University that is backing this report. You've libelled people with no evidence for your accusations, and won't withdraw them. Why should we believe anything else you say?

Pictures of geological formations don't prove anything about a pyramid.

[Fram]

Pictures of geological formations don't prove anything about a pyramid.

Well, that's what we try to tell Black Mamba for quite a while now. I'm glad you agree...

[Petitioner10]

There's another forum you people might find to be of interest as it's quite lively on this topic:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?t=193&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=495

(current last page)

[brianok]

Egyptian backs Bosnian pyramid claim

here is the link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12837694/#storyContinued

[R.A.F.]

The more I look at it, the less I trust the judgment of Dr. Ali Barakat...snip...I doubt many people would consider him the leading Egyptian pyramid expert...
Next!

According to Brianoc's link, Reuters and MSNBC disagree with you. :)

Am I surprised that these "news organizations" have "fallen" for this pseudo-science?

Not really...

[Fram]

Yep, brianok, I have seen that, and I don't believe him, since I don't believe in his "expertise", as has been discussed here. I do like the reference to "compact polished blocks" in the text, while the pictures show large, crude and definitely unpolished rocks.
If it is so clear that they are pyramids (and I believe a "temple" has been found as well in the meantime), then why is it so hard to show the evidence (and the pictures we have seen thus far are not evidence)?
Why has no one so far produced any indication that Barakat indeed is "the leading expert on Egyptian pyramids"?

R.A.F., MSNBC just blindly repeats Reuters (just like all media around teh world repeated the AFP story about the Bosnian pyramids). It makes you wonder how trustworthy and serious those news agencies are (at least for such light weight science articles, perhaps they do a better job for politics and so on).

[dougweller]

The fact is, with this and many other examples, the media has by and large just reproduced press releases without asking anyone else to comment. The New York Times did have a more skeptical article, but that was an exception.

Barakat is not an expert on the pryamids, he is a geologist. He thought he'd found the lost army of Cambyses, but the many fossils he thought were human fossils were sand dollar fossils.

And we have not had a report directly from him yet, so I am not convinced that we have accurate information as to what he concluded from what was a flying visit.

We do of course have knowledge that the local geologists, who did core drillings and know the area, say it is natural.

And we have seen jointed bedrock, Liesegang banding, and what looks like the destruction of the real archeology that is there on the hill.

[brianok]

One article I saw mentioned that Aly Abd Barakat
worked for the

"Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority"

here is their website

http://www.egsma.gov.eg/default2.htm

[Nicolas]

The fact is, with this and many other examples, the media has by and large just reproduced press releases without asking anyone else to comment. The New York Times did have a more skeptical article, but that was an exception.


Overhere, even the local free metro paper had a more critical article (that was from before Barakat's visit though).

[dougweller]

One article I saw mentioned that Aly Abd Barakat
worked for the

"Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority"

here is their website

http://www.egsma.gov.eg/default2.htm

Yes, that seems to be his current position. I've found a few articles by him, not to do with pyramids though.

[aurora]

On NPR, the Geoquiz did a show on the Bosnian "pyramids", and then they had to do a followup show after they got a lot of letters, calls, and emails from people pointing out the problems with the claims.

[Nicolas]

I just noticed footage of a hill that looks like a pyramid on a different location, so that in itself ain't that strange.

(it was the video that Metallica used as intro for their 1992 San Diego concert, must be the coolest source ever :D )

[Rivertree]

Hello. This is my first post. I just want to say that this a great thread. It makes more sense than what I've read in the media about the Bosnian "pyramids." The burden of proof rests on those making the claims.
In my opinion, there will be an escalation in the amount of pyramid findings by the "believers" of the great significance of year 2012 per the Mayan calendar. An example of a believer's website follows.
http://survive2012.com/why_2012_maya.php
After the year 2000 hype, I myself am a NON-believer that 2012 is any better or worse (in forecast) than any other year.
The man making many of the pyramid claims and leading the excavation, Sam, is almost too well read on Mayan beliefs and folklore. He seems well intentioned, but his vision may be attuned or clouded by his strong belief in Mayan prophecy.
I think that as he's digging in the earth, Sam's head is in the clouds. The contrarian view (which I won't support) appears to make Sam some sort of visionary or prophet himself as he unearths lost pyramids.
Granted, this all makes for a great story. However, my own faith leads to other places. I won't be standing at the pyramid or pyramid shaped hill waiting for ET or the comet to return in 2012.

[Rivertree]

Hum,
yeah,
From the CBS article - "The hill was already there, some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete _ and there you have a pyramid."

Which would be quite possible during the Bronze Age onwards - as that was the time of wide spread hill fortification.


A more recent CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/04/ap/tech/mainD8E9642G4.shtml) article.

""No fast conclusions, please. The evidence has to be firm, at least beyond a reasonable doubt," he said."

----------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if such an advanced construction would use any gravel resembling "bad concrete."

Quoted from aformentioned CBS News link:
"We found layers of what we call 'bad concrete,' a definitely unnatural mixture of gravel once used to form blocks with which this hill was covered," Osmanagic said.

"The hill was already there," he added. "Some ancient civilization just shaped it and then coated it with this primitive concrete _ and there you have a pyramid."
----------------------------------------------------------
(I report back to the Mayan theme.)

In the future, "we (shall) become
planetary Maya with sophisticated technology which will harmoniously connect the frequencies of the Sun and our psyches. . . ." quoted from http://www.alternativnahistorija.com/WMmain.htm

Yep, this is may be why Sam has named the hill, "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun." He's a religious fanatic, and this has to be weighed in with his claims.

Anyone can have divine insight, but this is usually found from within, not diggin' in the dirt. I won't discredit any of Sam's spiritual beliefs. Instead, I just help to reveal them as the central part of his enthusiasm in digging up an interesting hill.

[Rivertree]

Here's my last post for the night.

Regarding the "bad concrete" notion, I see how concrete is sometimes scrapped nowadays. Yes, it is thrown on the side of muddy hills to prevent erosion.

The concrete would be an interesting find, but fortified hill or otherwise, it's not really in the same category as the ancient pyramids.

[dougweller]

It isn't concrete, it's conglomerate. A natural geological formation.

[Blob]

Hum,
indeed i thought the same, there are local geological formations where i live that look exactly like that natural concrete.
I suspect its actually a fanglomerate, formed through the action of ancient glacial river deposits; and that has been scoured flat with the last glacier that flowed through the valley.

[Rivertree]

Thanks for the good geology lesson. You've already taught me more than that Egyptian "expert." Moreover, (Bosnian-American) Sam's bad concrete indeed seems to be a very bad explanation for anything seen here.

FYI, I'm going to give a 5 minute search to see if I can find more topography maps.
I noticed one on the following page, but I'd like to verify original source, etc....
http://archaeoastronomy.co.uk/2006/04/17/bosnian-pyramid/

Meanwhile, I wonder if anyone is using the available technology like GPS and more precise positioning. It looks like the measurements can use some fine tuning as there is an implied geometrical order used as "evidence."
---------------------------
((Also, I've seen plenty of flat surfaces that aren't pyramids even if they are on an angle.))
“We can see the surface is perfectly flat. This is the crucial material proof that we are talking pyramids.”
-quoted from
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060420_pyramidfrm.htm


-------Key words of team in Bosnia include: puzzled and numerous anomalies.-------------------------

[Rivertree]

"Satellite images, thermal analysis and radar studies have been performed at the site, all independently confirming the existence of pyramid-shaped architecture, according to Osmanagic."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12635805/
Where is the good evidence? I think someone is simply seeing what he wants to see.

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Maps/201211valleyofPyramidssat.png
http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Maps/sa-vi_karta.jpg
http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Maps/8597690270.jpg

This one looks the sketchiest to me:
http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Maps/954024nesto2ke.jpg

-----------------------------
Another Expert has arrived on the scene.
He's a Professor, Doctor, Ric., and Geologist! He's none other than Dario Andretta (nominatad for Nobel prize).
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html

[dougweller]

I can't read Bosnian, but:
Rektor univerziteta «Lumuci» iz Rima, kandidat za nobelovu nagradu, prof.dr. Dario Andretta, posjetio Bosansku dolinu piramida i prihvatio da bude na celu Komiteta za geologiju Fondacije !!!

Piše: Samra Koric(ic'

Danas je u posjeti Bosanskoj dolini piramida bio prof. dr. Dario Andretta, geolog i sedimentolog, predsjednik i rektor univerziteta «HUMIC – LUMUCI» iz Rima (Italija), koji je kandidiran za Nobelovu nagradu. Posjeta je ostvarena u saradnji sa rektoratom Univereziteta u Zenici.

Dr. Andretta je obišao otvorene sondažne bunare na Plješevici/Bosanskoj piramidi Mjeseca, u pratnji vodec'eg geologa Projekta Nadžije Nukic' i dr. Aly Abd Barakata, geologa iz Egipta. Nakon obilaska terena na Plješevici, profesor je posjetio i lokacije na terenu Visoc(ice/Bosanske piramide Sunca, gdje je sa pomenutim geolozima komentirao nalaze, složivši se s njima u mnogim struc(nim tumac(enjima.

Nakon obilaska terena struc(njaci su otišli na sastanak u motel «Piramida Sunca» u Visokom, gdje su pric(ali o buduc'oj kooperaciji izme?u univerziteta «HUMIC – LUMUCI» i Fondacije "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida Sunca".


Kako nam je rekao, po povratku u Italiju profesor Dario Andretta c'e tražiti od vlade Italije da verifikuje ovu buduc'u kooperaciju i da donira sredstva potrebna za istraživanja, kao i da održi internacionalnu konferenciju u vezi Projekta u cilju prikupljanja sredstava i animacije struc(nog kadra koji c'e ubuduc'e zajednic(ki raditi sa našim struc(njacima na ovom kao i na drugim znac(ajnim projektima.
Dr. Dario Andretta je prihvatio da od sada bude na c(elu Komiteta za geologiju pri Fondaciji "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida Sunca".

U izjavi za Fondaciju rekao nam je slijedec'e: "Moja impresija je da se nalazimo pred nec(im veoma važnim za istraživanje. Mi smo sigurni da se radi o nec(emu veoma važnom sa geološke i arheološke tac(ke gledišta, jer zasigurno vec' imamo neke morfološke oblike koji ukazuju na djelovanje ljudskih ruku. Nalazimo se pred geomorfološkom strukturom koja je bila obra?ivana ljudskom rukom, a prva impresija je da je neka civilizacija našla interes da oblikuje na nac(in koji je u interakciji sa ovom morfologijom. Ne možemo ništa rec'i o vremenu, tipu civilizacije, znac(enju, ali imamo osnovu za dalja istraživanja na globalnoj osnovi. Imam osjec'aj da se nalazim pred nec(im veoma velikim. U društvu ljudi iz Fondacije "Arheoloski park BPS" sam se lijepo osjec'ao, upoznao divan narod , divne istraživac(e, profesore i sve druge.

Dr. Dario Andreta, koji svojim struc(nim referencama može dodati i nominaciju za Nobelovu nagradu, jedan je od brojnih uglednih me?unarodnih struc(njaka koji podržavaju Projekat bosanskih piramida i žele doprinijeti njegovoj punoj afirmaciji i realizaciji.

Bosanska dolina piramida tako c'e i stvarno i metafizic(ki postati most izme?u zemalja, kontinenata, struc(njaka, i turista iz c(itavog svijeta, koji c'e na visoc(kim koordinatama otkrivati jednu novu istinu, jednu novu istoriju i jednu novu buduc'nost svijeta.

Svi struc(njaci iz zemlje i svijeta i dalje su pozvani da se pridruže svojim kolegama iz Fondacije u ovom velikom i znac(ajnom arheološkom Projektu.

[Rivertree]

Staff

1) Chairman:

Prof. Dario Andretta Tel/Fax. 0763-393150

http://www.lumuci.org/organigramma.php

http://www.lumuci.org/news.php

I don't see how I can check the Nobel prize nominee credentials.

Are the nominations made public?

"The statutes of the Nobel Foundation restricts disclosure of information about the nominations, whether publicly or privately, until fifty years have elapsed. The restriction concerns the nominees and nominators as well as investigations and opinions in the awarding of a prize."
quoted from
http://nobelprize.org/chemistry/nomination/

DRL.

[Rivertree]

They're like Xrays for pyramids!

http://www.livescience.com/technology/050223_muon_scanners.html


------------------------------------
"New discoveries at an ancient burial site near Mexico City suggest grisly sacrifices and a materialistic society, scientists said Thursday." quoted from
http://www.livescience.com/history/041202_grave_site.html

I don't think that these ancient pyramid builders were all that great, even if their constructions were grand.

[Rivertree]

-----------------------------
Another Expert has arrived on the scene.
He's a Professor, Doctor, Ric., and Geologist! He's none other than Dario Andretta (nominatad for Nobel prize).
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html[/QUOTE]
-----------------------------
Sample
Q: Why would UNESCO be involved?

Answer: quoted below.
"The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) seeks to encourage the identification, protection and preservation of cultural and natural heritage around the world considered to be of outstanding value to humanity. This is embodied in an international treaty called the Convention concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage, adopted by UNESCO in 1972." from http://whc.unesco.org/en/about/

Basically, UNESCO is in the identification process to see if the Bosnian pyramid has outstanding value to mankind.

Treaty info follows:
from
http://whc.unesco.org/?cid=175

"I. DEFINITION OF THE CULTURAL AND NATURAL HERITAGE
Article 1

For the purposes of this Convention, the following shall be considered as "cultural heritage":

monuments: architectural works, works of monumental sculpture and painting, elements or structures of an archaeological nature, inscriptions, cave dwellings and combinations of features, which are of outstanding universal value from the point of view of history, art or science;

groups of buildings: groups of separate or connected buildings which, because of their architecture, their homogeneity or their place in the landscape, are of outstanding universal value from the point of view of history, art or science;

sites: works of man or the combined works of nature and man, and areas including archaeological sites which are of outstanding universal value from the historical, aesthetic, ethnological or anthropological point of view.
Article 2

For the purposes of this Convention, the following shall be considered as "natural heritage":

natural features consisting of physical and biological formations or groups of such formations, which are of outstanding universal value from the aesthetic or scientific point of view;

geological and physiographical formations and precisely delineated areas which constitute the habitat of threatened species of animals and plants of outstanding universal value from the point of view of science or conservation;

natural sites or precisely delineated natural areas of outstanding universal value from the point of view of science, conservation or natural beauty."

Maybe, the UN group can shine by settling the debate.
Maybe.

[dougweller]

Warning, large file:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JigXhEZRuE&search=piramida

And if you think the comments you hear express disappointment, I'm told you're right!

Doug

[Rivertree]

I don't know Croatian nor Bosnian, but I understand laughter.

"Ha, ha, ha!" isn't like, "ooh," or "ah!"

Those stone slabs don't look like anything out of the ordinary to ordinary folk.

[Jim]

Another Expert has arrived on the scene.
He's a Professor, Doctor, Ric., and Geologist! He's none other than Dario Andretta (nominatad for Nobel prize).

There's a Nobel Prize for Geology?

[Fram]

Has someoen at UNESCO declared that they are looking at inclusion in the World Heritage list? Or is that yet another claim from the Ismanagic camp?

I would be highly surprised (adn disappointed) if UNESCO was looking at the inclusion of an undocumented, unstudied, unrecognized, and highly uncertain monument.

As for Daroi Andretta: he is chairman and chancellor of the staff at "LUMUCI (http://www.lumuci.org/organigramma.php)", which is (http://www.lumuci.org/documenti/why_humic.doc)

an Academic Institution that is not authorized by the Italian Ministry of Education, University and Researc
The staff seems to highly undermanned, by the way, with only one other person named. And all the affiliated institutions (http://www.lumuci.org/affiliati.php) are based in ... Bosnia!
Not what I would call a trustworthy or independent expert, yet again, but I fear many news agencies will fall for it. As for me, this only strengthens the idea that there is nothing there but one giant money-spinning and attention-grabbing machine.

[brianok]

UNESCO to join search for pyramids in central Bosnia

here is the link



http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1169078.php/UNESCO_to_join_search_for_pyramids_in_central_Bosn ia

[R.A.F.]

From brianok's link...


The discovery of the site has caused a surge in the number of tourists in Visoko.

Last weekend alone, more than 10,000 tourists visited that tiny central Bosnian town, tourist authorities said.

There's the answer right there...tourist dollars. Sam is (after all) a business man...

Nuff said...

[Black Mamba]

There's the answer right there...tourist dollars. Sam is (after all) a business man...

Nuff said...

but why does he pay his own money to help this project , he spend 20 000 dollar in the begining of this project

if UNESCO say it is a pyramid, you all have to kiss osmanagich in the ***
if unesco say that this is not a pyramid then we shall all spit on osmangich

[NEOWatcher]

but why does he pay his own money to help this project , he spend 20 000 dollar in the begining of this project
Did you ever hear the saying "you have to spend money to make money" ? Same here...it's an investment.

if UNESCO say it is a pyramid, you all have to kiss osmanagich in the ***
if unesco say that this is not a pyramid then we shall all spit on osmangich Careful.

So now we have an absolute authority? What if what they say is worded vaguely because they can't draw any conclusion?

[R.A.F.]

if UNESCO say it is a pyramid...

...they will then have to present evidence to back up what they say...as expected from any scientific organization...

[Halcyon Dayz]

UNESCO should send in a SWAT-team. ;)
:p

[dougweller]

Staff

1) Chairman:

Prof. Dario Andretta Tel/Fax. 0763-393150

http://www.lumuci.org/organigramma.php

http://www.lumuci.org/news.php



He holds 2 of the top posts there, but it is not a real university and does not award recognised qualifications (and makes that clear). It has close affiliations with some institutions in Bosnia.

Although he did a PhD in geology, I can't find any record of what else he has done in geology and he has clearly been building up this 'university' over the past few years.

He isn't what he at first appeared to be. I'd like to know where this Nobel nonsense came from. An honest error (how though?) or an attempt to build him up? And if his main interest is an alternative 'university', maybe if someone did think he was worthy of a prize it was in that field?

[Xbalanque]

UNESCO in and of itself cannot declare anything. The Bosnian government, probably the Commission to Preserve National Monuments, must petition UNESCO to have the site declared a World Heritage site. The petition must show that the site meets certain criteria and that the Bosnian government has a management plan in place to preserve, protect, and interpret the site. Then the World Heritage Committee votes on whether or not to include the site during their annual meeting in July. To even be considered for nomination, there's a lot more work that's going to have to be done at this site.

[R.A.F.]

And if his main interest is an alternative 'university', maybe if someone did think he was worthy of a prize it was in that field?

A Nobel prize in alternative University?? That would be a "first".

[dougweller]

A Nobel prize in alternative University?? That would be a "first".
Well, yes. In fact, since the prizes are in the fields of physics, chemistry, medicine, literature and for peace, I can't think of anything he could have been nominated for. Someone's made that up to make him sound more impressive than he actually is.

Doug

[Rivertree]

As the Nobel committee doesn't discuss nominated candidates for what is it, 50 years, then it's tough to check who was actually nominated.


Also, it can be a situation like the US President's race. Many, many candidates try, but only one wins.

[dougweller]

Another Expert has arrived on the scene.
He's a Professor, Doctor, Ric., and Geologist! He's none other than Dario Andretta (nominatad for Nobel prize).
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html

And he's denied being a candidate for a Nobel prize.

As for being a professor, well, you too could call yourself one if you set up your own 'university' which can't offer recognised Italian qualifications, which doesn't seem to offer real classes and which has been described by someone who looked at their web site as "a kind of front for various tourist organizations and a shady
language course where you are offered help to buy houses in Italy." It seems really to be his own private organisation. And his main work now seems to be about safety, risk management and quality control of
the work environment -- if you look at:
http://www.cgilasti.it/fp/sanita/News/articoli/Asti_Orvieto_30112004.htm

Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Director and Moderator The Hall of Ma'at http://www.thehallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

[kg034]

[opionion]This whole thing with the "pyramid" does belong to science, but certainly not archaeology....psychology is the appropriate branch of science for these past events. [/opinion]

Anhyow, after my 2c worth, here's what I wanted to post:
British expert nixes Bosnia pyramid claim (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060610/ap_on_sc/bosnia_pyramid_controversy)

A quick google search on prof. Anthony Harding verifies who he is.

[Rivertree]

Thank you.!

Professor Anthony Harding sounds reasonable.

My only follow on question would be about what part of the hill he really did see. I'd presume it's the main area shown in the picture next to the article, but I get the feeling the reporters don't necessarily know what is what on this.

My God, it's a HILL.

[BenderBendingRodriguez]

From the article:


No pyramids are known in Europe, and there are no records of any ancient civilization on the continent ever attempting to build one.


Uhm... what about the Greek ones?

[Black Mamba]

Thank you.!

Professor Anthony Harding sounds reasonable.

no he dont, do you know why becuse he never visited all sonds and he did not see all evidence , he was just walking 15 minutes beneath the sun pyramid , he did not analize all evidence, he did not visited moon pyramid did not visited tunels , almost nothing :clap:

on other hand look at this


Bosnian 'pyramid' created by nature, say European experts Friday June 9, 08:41 PM
Click to enlarge photo


SARAJEVO (AFP) - Stone blocks believed by Bosnian researchers to be part of Europe's first pyramid are nothing but a natural formation, European experts said after examining the hillside site near Sarajevo.

"My opinion and the opinion of my colleagues is what we saw was entirely geological in nature," said Anthony Harding, head of the European Association of Archaeologists.

Harding, a professor of archaeology at the University of Exeter in Britain, was speaking here after a brief visit


Thursday to the hills near Visoko, a town some 30 kilometres (19 miles) north of Sarajevo, where excavation work has been taking place since April.

"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he told reporters.

The excavations on two pyramid-shaped hills covered by vegetation near Visoko were initiated by Semir Osmanagic, a self-styled Bosnian explorer.

Osmanagic has said he believes that the hills hide the first pyramids to have been discovered in Europe, claiming they were built many thousands of years ago by an unknown civilisation.

While most Bosnians are hopeful that pyramids will be found, a group of the country's archaeologists and historians have dismissed Osmanagic's mission as a "farce".

So far experts have unearthed a number of large stone blocks at several locations on the larger of the two hills and part of a surface paved with regularly shaped small stone blocks on the other.

"You'd be surprised how many natural stone formations can look as if they are man-made," Harding said of the findings.

However earlier on Friday, an Egyptian geologist working with the Bosnian researchers said that the "structure" was a pyramid similar to those in his homeland.

"I believe it is a pyramid," Aly Abd Alla Barakat, of the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, told AFP.

Listing the evidence for his claim, Barakat said the sides of the hill were "precisely oriented" towards the four points of the compass and that stone slabs discovered at the site had been "polished by man".

"The white stuff I found between the blocks could be a glue. It is very similar to that we have found in the Giza pyramids," he said.

He called for a massive international research project on the site.

Barakat said he had sent a report on the site to one of the world's leading Egyptologists, Zahi Hawass, who had recommended him to the foundation leading the excavation work.


Barakat was on bosnian ptyramids working almost a month and he had sent a sceintifict raport i think to hawass about pyramids, barakat believe tha thi is a pyramid

but Harding who was beaneth the visocica hill 15 minutes he did not see everuthing,



My only follow on question would be about what part of the hill he really did see.

those who work there did not see him :wall:

i wonder how can he say tha this is a natural when he did not see all evidence

.


My God, it's a HILL.

yes but under the hill there is a pyramid

latest photos from moon pyramid wich harding did not even visited
1
http://www.slibe.com/images/bc42c426-moonpyramid4_jpg.jpg

2
http://www.slibe.com/images/668b8dc7-moonpyramid5_jpg.jpg

3
http://www.slibe.com/images/7dcb31e7-moonpyramid7_jpg.jpg

4
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/100606/piramidamjeseca_s1_10.jpg

5
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/10060602/Piramidamjeseca05.jpg

6
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/10060602/Piramidamjeseca01.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/090606/IMG_0508.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/090606/IMG_0507.jpg

[R.A.F.]

Other than being persuaded to link to images as opposed to posting them. (which we all thank you for) I've really not seen anything evidenciary that would lead me to think that there is an actual man-made pyramid there.

When "Sam" can get actual experts to confirm what he has postulated, then I'll be willing to listen. Until then, he has nothing to "offer" scientifically...

...and it's obvious that the "locals" want a pyramid to be there...it's become a tourist attraction...

[dougweller]

You don't need to see a lot of evidence to tell if something is natural. And certainly the tunnels can't be used to prove a pyramid. Hopefully we shall get the Tuzla geologists report translated into English (I have a copy but it is in Bosnian). I'd like to see Barakat's report also.

I don't know how anyone can tell that the hill's sides are precisely aligned, since they don't have precise sides. Please someone explain that?

[Rivertree]

Please see the bottom slides.
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=101

Zoom-in to soccer ball.
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/040606/DSCF6887.jpg

Empty hole from whence it came.
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/040606/DSCF6901.jpg

Maybe, just maybe my interpretation is affected by the current world cup action.

[Rivertree]

Knowing a bit of Sam's new-age Mayan 2012 point of view, his newly found sphere has got to really get him rolling.

The Stone Spheres of Costa Rica
http://www.crystalinks.com/costarica.html
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf127/sf127p13.htm
http://www.geocities.com/eqm/palmar/palmar.html

This is hardly going to dissuade him from his Atlantis notions....
http://www.lauralee.com/erikson.htm

[Rivertree]

LONG QUOTE

"Rolling With the Bunches
The first discovery of the unusual stone balls was made around 1940. The United Fruit Company was preparing large tracts of land in the Diquis Delta on the southern Pacific coast to be used for banana plantations. In the process of clearing the land, they unearthed several dozen balls, ranging in size from a few centimeters to over two meters in diameter. Subsequent archeological research identified and catalogued hundreds of the balls, some of which appeared in other parts of the country. As news of the find began to spread, the balls were rounded up (sorry) by collectors and treasure hunters; today, only six are known to remain in their original positions"

http://itotd.com/articles/482/the-stone-balls-of-costa-rica/

[Rivertree]

Stone Wheel
http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=90

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/29052006/DSCF0166.jpg

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/29052006/DSCF0165.jpg

---------------------------------------------------
Mexioco Spheres
http://www.mexicodesconocido.com.mx/english/naturaleza/bellezas_naturales/detalle.cfm?idsec=6&idsub=0&idpag=1681
------------------------------------------------------------------
I found the above link on this thread.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t68043.html
------------------------------------------------------------


I'm not sure where this wheel was found....

[Rivertree]

"While most Bosnians are hopeful that pyramids will be found, a group of the country's archaeologists and historians have dismissed Osmanagic's mission as a 'farce'."
http://www.stonepages.com/news/

------------------------------------------------------
"Indiana Jones"
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/Semir.html

Stone Balls Story
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Archive_files/BosnianStoneBalls.html

Zoom in to pics.
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianStoneBalls/BosnianStoneBallsAhmedBosnic.jpg
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianStoneBalls/AhmedBosnic_Kugle.jpg
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianStoneBallHafClose.jpg
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BosnianStoneBallTeocakSemir.jpg
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/BiggestBosnianStoneBall.jpg

Iron Rings
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Archive_files/IronRings.html

Art showing balls and pyramids
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/BosnianArt.html

[Nicolas]

May I just point out once again that manmade stones, pathways and the like are an indication of past human activity at the hill, but not necessarily of a 12.000 year old pyramid. That point appears to be lost to some, who hold on to anything manmade found at the hills as proof for a pyramid.

[Rivertree]

Agreed, I still don't think it's a pyramid.
But, I'm learning stuff along the way......

-------------------------------------------
Report list
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/Books.html

Recent Report
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/pdf/Bosnian%20pyramidsScientificReportMay2006.pdf

Remote Sensing Analysis of the Bosnian “Pyramid” Complex by Amer Smailbegovic, Ph.D., Geophysicist, Reno, NV
(3.5 MB pdf )
---------------------------------------------------
SWITCHING PLANETS we find the same name (Amer)

Saturn - Lord of the Rings
LONG Quotes

"AMER SMAILBEGOVIC: To us and our crude sensors called eyes, both of these rocks are very similar, only trained geologists or somebody with lots of experience can tell you what kind of rocks they are. However, imagine having some kind of special goggles that you could put on your eyes and that they would make these rocks not be so drab and white but stand up with the things that you would actually like to know. That even to the layman they would say, this is the rock you want and this is the rock you don't want.

NARRATOR: The technology that performs this remarkable feat is called a mapping spectrometer. It works by measuring the different frequencies of light reflected by the rocks below. Every mineral reflects light at its own unique set of frequencies. The spectrometer can spot these differences and interprets them as different colours.

The data from the spectrometer is then used to build up a multi-coloured 3-D map of the area.

The result is a complete picture of the mineral content of the terrain - all achieved without anyone needing to take a sample.

The same equipment has been adapted for Cassini's trip past Phoebe. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/saturn_trans.shtml

-----------------------------------------------------
Amer's pyramid report
http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images/GeophysicalAnalysis.pdf
Amer claims its an independent remote sensing project without previous knowledge of the site.

The term mound is used more often than pyramid in the analysis.

----------------------------------------------------
This is an internet address for "Nevada's fastest connection to the internet." Coincidentally, it's called PYRAMID.
http://www.pyramid.net/
(Amer's email adress uses that domain.)
--------------------------------------------------
Lost city of Ubar is referenced as an example in Amer's report w/ a major qualifier that remote sensing is only one tool of the many needed to make such a significant find.
UBAR sites:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ubar/tools/
http://www.guidedones.com/issues/reports/ubar10.htm
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/ubar/ubar_0.html
related sites
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/ubar/ubar_3.html
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/ubar/ubar_5.html
additional references
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/ubar/ubar_7.html

GIS and Remote Sensing
http://www.informatics.org/france/france.html
----------------------------------------------

[Rivertree]

This is/was Amer's workplace.

http://www.spectir.com/
http://www.spectir.com/technology.htm
Technology.
http://www.spectir.com/images/GIS.pdf

[Rivertree]

Zahi Hawass is mentioned as the Egyptian point of contact.

Hawass links follow:
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/information/biography/fghij/hawass_zahi.html

http://guardians.net/spotlite/spotlite-hawass-2005.htm

http://guardians.net/hawass/articles/news_on_the_robot_Dec_2005.htm

Egypt's ancient treasure
http://travelvideo.tv/news/more.php?id=A7770_0_1_0_M

********************
Now, I see the trend of name (and credential) tossing.
********************
-------------------------------------------------------------
Australian In Bosnia Pyramid Riddle
Royce Richards.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=PYRAMID

http://www.eso-garden.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/bosnian_pyramid/
----------------------------------------
http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/25850.html
...if (Sam) isn't a con-man, (he) has only a passing acquaintance with reality,,,, ***paraphrased***
----------------------------------------
My comment:
Sounds like it's a case for Inspector Clouseau!
------------------------------------------------------

Sincere thanks to anyone (including myself) with enough patience for me to draw my own conclusions.

Here they are.

"Sam" is dangerous to the environment. He's digging up a mountain which is no small undertaking. He's under the reality distorter per Mayan myth and other legends. He is no Indian Jones! Another Stephen Spielberg character comes to mind. . . .
Roy Neary of Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

That's right!

Roy was the guy building mountains of mashed potatoes.
Sam is the guy building mashed potatoes of mountains.
(You may freely quote me on this -- Rivertree).

Sorry, if I've brought any more attention to such an unfortunate topic. I treasure mountains. As a mountain, if nothing more, the area deserves a little more respect.

If there are interesting indeed artifacts around it, then these are better handled by qualified professionals. The stone spheres have already made their way onto too many lawns as ornaments in other countries, namely Costa Rica.

Sam seems to hold great value in the Earth and such things pyramids. Maybe, he just needs a reality check as he's caught up in overwhelming enthusiasm. He's rushing into conclusions as he seemingly believes there's a pending world-wide reality phase shift looming in 2012.

Other prophecy aside, Sam is dead-on right that his role in the excavation will become limited over time. His intentions may be good, but unlike Roy climbing "Devil's Mountain" the UFOs will not arrive to affirm his reality. Any belief as far-fetched as Sam's is likely to fall to the ground, even if there are a few interesting rocks around.

Anyway, it will take me awhile to process some more of this info,,,,
Until then,
BEST WISHES!
Peace-out.

[Black Mamba]

new stronger evidence of bosnian pyramid

http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/110606/pljesevica_s1_3.jpg


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/110606/pljesevica_s1_1.jpg


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/110606/pljesevica_s1_21.jpg


http://www.piramidasunca.ba/news/110606/pljesevica_s1_15.jpg

[Nicolas]

May I just point out once again that manmade stones, pathways and the like are an indication of past human activity at the hill, but not necessarily of a 12.000 year old pyramid. That point appears to be lost to some, who hold on to anything manmade found at the hills as proof for a pyramid.

...

[R.A.F.]

new stronger evidence of bosnian pyramid.

Hmmm...so images "can" be strong evidence??

Yet you have previously stated...


...those scientists who critisize this , have not visited this place , they critisize this from their offices.

...you critize those who are not on-site, yet who have evaluated the images.

So which is it?? You can't have it both ways...



aside...this reminds me of the "late" Michael Mozina who would post images of the Sun and say, "Look, a solid surface." Although others here didn't "see it" that way. :)

[Blob]

Hum,
i appears to me now that this is just a money making scheme.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with that or the setting up of some sort theme park, as it is probably good for the region. (There is something similar to that in the west coast of Scotland; every year they burn a wicker man for the summer solstice celebrations - it generates a healthy tourist trade and supposedly guarantees a good harvest for the coming years).

The only worry with the Bosnian dig is that real archaeology is lost or damaged.

[Rivertree]

The Pyramid (or rather HILL) in Bosnia is good.

This is great progress compared to the wars of previous years.

Sometimes, I lose persepctive. At least they're digging for SOMETHING beside land mines for a change.

[Rivertree]

Hum,
(There is something similar to that in the west coast of Scotland; every year they burn a wicker man for the summer solstice celebrations - it generates a healthy tourist trade and supposedly guarantees a good harvest for the coming years).



They just burn the straw, right. In the movie, they FINALLY sacrifice the dude that they're friendly to the whole movie.

Somewhere here, there's a picture of the man stuck in the wicker man.
http://www.steve-p.org/wm/

IMHO the movie's not that good.

"I have never and will never understand this film's reputation." -- Ken Hanke, MOUNTAIN XPRESS (ASHEVILLE, NC)

[Black Mamba]

vertical stone wall found on moon pyramid

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Excavations/829356no.JPG


sun pyramid from helicopter

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Pyramid/929261hel2.JPG

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Pyramid/177100Bosanska-piramida-Sunca-02.jpg


:clap: :clap: :clap: :D :boohoo:

[Maksutov]

Hum,
i appears to me now that this is just a money making scheme.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with that or the setting up of some sort theme park, as it is probably good for the region. (There is something similar to that in the west coast of Scotland; every year they burn a wicker man for the summer solstice celebrations - it generates a healthy tourist trade and supposedly guarantees a good harvest for the coming years).

The only worry with the Bosnian dig is that real archaeology is lost or damaged.There is a similar festival in America. (http://www.burningman.com/)

[Rivertree]

Hooray--- Midsummer is here!

"Ancient Pagans celebrated Midsummer with bonfires."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/summer_solstice.htm

------------------------------------------------------

This is the flip-side of the seasons from when the Mayan Calendar ("ends") on Dec. 21, 2012.

[Rivertree]

vertical stone wall found on moon pyramid

http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Excavations/829356no.JPG



:wall:

Good. Maybe, they'll find out what the building is.


http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/news.html
Quoted below.
"Experts from the Foundation have now revealed the discovery of a vertical wall that forms part of the Pyramid of The Moon. Mrs. Dr. Lamia el-Hadidi assumes that the wall forms part of a tomb belonging to the pyramid. She pointed out that the wall is clearly manmade, comprising blocks that have been cut by man, refined and used to build this vertical wall. Prof. Dr. Dario Andretta, Rector at the "LUMUCI" University in Rome, announced that this evidence puts beyond doubt the existence of a true pyramid at this site. Dr. Andretta has also announced that more experts from Italy will join the team. The Foundation expect to have further announcements about the nature of the wall that has been discovered in the next two to three days. Excavations will now continue to take place to the left, right and above the wall. The team has also discovered steps which they say probably leads into a tomb."

http://simongurney.co.uk/america/mexico/mayan_temple.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------
Even a greater mystery to me is how I was using Internet Explorer when I just UN-installed it two weeks ago.

[Maksutov]

Hooray--- Midsummer is here!

"Ancient Pagans celebrated Midsummer with bonfires."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/summer_solstice.htmTime to get out the score of Mahler's Third Symphony and rejoice in this time of year.

Pan Awakes, Summer Marches In!

[/URL][URL="http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mahler3rdopeningmeasures2jc.jpg"]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9494/mahler3rdopeningmeasures2jc.th.jpg (http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mahler3rdopeningmeasures1jt.jpg)

[Fram]

So a self-declared professor of a self-declared unrecognized university has found part of a wall on a hill that is known to have been inhabited in Roman and Medieval times. Yep, that has to be a pyramid.

[Rivertree]

Summer marches in --- HOORAY :dance:


------------------------------------------

So a self-declared professor of a self-declared unrecognized university has found part of a wall on a hill that is known to have been inhabited in Roman and Medieval times. Yep, that has to be a pyramid.

Um, sad to say the diggers claim that it's even a tomb on a pyramid. They probably suppose that there's a Pharoah mummified behind that wall.

-----------------------------------------

In the imagination department, I find this show is at least as creative....

http://www.tv.com/the-backyardigans/show/28687/summary.html?full_summary=1&tag=showspace_links;full_summary

"In every episode, the backyard transforms into a new fantastic, photo-real landscape that serves as the backdrop for completely original, story-driven musicals."

Now only if they're backyard would transform into a pyramid.

[Black Mamba]

So a self-declared professor of a self-declared unrecognized university has found part of a wall on a hill that is known to have been inhabited in Roman and Medieval times. Yep, that has to be a pyramid.'


this is not truth, the stone wall was found on moon pyramid not the sun pyramid, on the sun pyramid it was a castle where bosnisn king ruled bosnia, but moon pyramid was never inhabited

you talk about wrong hill , man

they found stone wall on this hill

moon pyramid

http://bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Pyramid/203816moonpyramid.JPG

the wall on moon pyramid
http://bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Excavations/829356no.JPG




sun pyramid

http://bosnian-pyramid.com/gallery/Pyramid/214711Bosanska-piramida-Sunca-01.jpg

it was on the topp of the sun poyramid , a castle from 1300 century

[Nicolas]

In the left corner:

"In medieval times, there was a building on the hill next to a hill featuring a castle"

In the right corner:

"we found a vertical wall on a hill not featuring a castle. It's a 12.000 year old pyramid".

What I see is an enormous jumping to conclusions on every find. And I truly fear that a really interesting archeological site is being destroyed. Stop worrying about tourism! If there is a huge archeological site there, stretching out over more than 2 hills, you won't need a 12.000 year old pyramid to get tourists!