View Full Version : APOD of HORRIBLE Light Pollution Globally
AZgazer
2004-Aug-25, 04:29 AM
Hopefully this has not been posted, I didn't see any Topic Titles that seemed to fit.
I was lookiong at APOD to relax a bit before bed tonight and found this pic that is a few days old. ICK (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208/earthlights02_dmsp_big.jpg) is all I can say about that picture.
It's a great picture, even if light pollution sucks.
You could always move to Tibet, or Greenland, or the Sahara. :wink:
Maksutov
2004-Aug-25, 05:19 AM
Hopefully this has not been posted, I didn't see any Topic Titles that seemed to fit.
I was lookiong at APOD to relax a bit before bed tonight and found this pic that is a few days old. ICK (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208/earthlights02_dmsp_big.jpg) is all I can say about that picture.
Glad to be in one of the dark spots.
BTW, this photo was the subject of a chain email back when it first came out. The email claimed the photograph was "...an absolutely awesome picture of the Earth taken from the Boeing built Space Station last November on a perfect night with no obscuring atmospheric conditions."
Neat trick, eh? Almost as interesting as the claim that the ISS was 100% American-made, specifically by Boeing! :roll:
JustAGuy
2004-Aug-25, 06:25 AM
I was lookiong at APOD to relax a bit before bed tonight and found this pic that is a few days old. ICK (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208/earthlights02_dmsp_big.jpg) is all I can say about that picture.
Well, that's just the visible light sources. Actual light pollution follows pretty closely, but not exactly. link (http://www.inquinamentoluminoso.it/worldatlas/pages/fig1.htm)
What's most important from this info, however, is that I live a scant 30 minutes drive from some of the darkest skies on the continent, yet am still only 5 minutes from the downtown core of a major west coast city ;)
It's freaky when you're driving into town in the middle of the night, and all you see is a massive bulging haze of light in front of you.
TriangleMan
2004-Aug-25, 11:04 AM
It's sad that you can see Bermuda in that picture even though the island is only 22 square miles. The island is so developed I'm not sure truly dark skies can be found here (unless you go out on a boat but that makes using a telescope difficult).
I'm amazed that I can actually pick out local towns.
Aside from Sydney/Glace Bay/New Waterford/North Sydney/Sydney Mines (all of which are represented by a single blob), I can pick out Ingonish, Cheticamp, Inverness, St. Peters, and Port Hood/Port Hastings.
I'm amazed that I can actually pick out local towns.
Aside from Sydney/Glace Bay/New Waterford/North Sydney/Sydney Mines (all of which are represented by a single blob), I can pick out Ingonish, Cheticamp, Inverness, St. Peters, and Port Hood/Port Hastings.
I can pick out my town too!
I'm that little blob on the north-west shore of Lake Superior. :D
Moose
2004-Aug-25, 12:58 PM
I'm amazed that I can actually pick out local towns.
Aside from Sydney/Glace Bay/New Waterford/North Sydney/Sydney Mines (all of which are represented by a single blob), I can pick out Ingonish, Cheticamp, Inverness, St. Peters, and Port Hood/Port Hastings.
Yeah, you can do that in New Brunswick as well, basically being able to identify each of the highways by the line of lit communities along them.
Are you surprised that you can differentiate it from the other towns? Or because it's so small? I always assumed Thunder Bay was pretty large. Maybe just because it's always mentioned on the Weather Network. Hehe.
On the topic of the picture: The Nile is amazing! I wish I had noticed that earlier. It must be lit up like a Christmas Tree for hundreds of miles, and then the light just suddenly stops (yet you can still see it going down the continent).
Are you surprised that you can differentiate it from the other towns? Or because it's so small? I always assumed Thunder Bay was pretty large. Maybe just because it's always mentioned on the Weather Network. Hehe.
Well the population is 120,000 here, so it's a small city. What differentiates Thunder Bay from the rest of the blobs is that it's just 1 blob kind of in the middle of no where. There's no other cities or towns around here of significant size for about 400Km. Duluth, MN which is at the western tip of Lake Superior would be the closest city, followed by Winnipeg which is around 700Km west from here.
Edited for clarity
120,000? Is that all? That's just the entire population of all Cape Breton Island. Hehe.
The northern coast of the Mediterranean is awfully illuminated, too. I'm actually really offput by how continuous the lights are in some places.
120,000? Is that all? That's just the entire population of all Cape Breton Island. Hehe.
I actually had a friend from Cape Breton. I worked with him in Winnipeg and here as well. His name is John MacPherson(sp?), ring a bell? :)
The northern coast of the Mediterranean is awfully illuminated, too. I'm actually really offput by how continuous the lights are in some places.
Notice how the highest densities are all along the shore lines? Goes to show you how much we rely on water for transportation among other things. The US appears to be the only country to make an exception to this rule though.
Another interesting thing to point out is how the two most populated countries; China and India have hardly any light density at all. This goes to show how underdeveloped they are. Africa looks pretty dim too.
Japan on the other hand looks like it could melt some polar ice caps. :lol:
John McPherson? The only more generic name I can think of is Mike McDonald. So...umm...I don't know. Maybe?
Africa's really, really dark. And where's Mongolia? Someone must live there.
Captain Kidd
2004-Aug-25, 01:57 PM
Notice how the highest densities are all along the shore lines? Goes to show you how much we rely on water for transportation among other things. The US appears to be the only country to make an exception to this rule though.A lot of thouse US cities are on rivers though. The rest you could overlay an old railroad map on and see correlations. Speaking of, you can tell the route of the Trans-Siberia Railroad in Russia.
Avatar28
2004-Aug-25, 03:18 PM
I can see several cities on there too: Atlanta, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville, Huntsville, Birmingham, et al.
I have (or had) a really huge version of that pic at one time. I ought to set it back as my desktop one of these days.
John McPherson? The only more generic name I can think of is Mike McDonald. So...umm...I don't know. Maybe?
Africa's really, really dark. And where's Mongolia? Someone must live there.
Doh!
I didn't stop to think of how common of a name that would be in your neck of the woods. #-o
Emspak
2004-Aug-25, 03:49 PM
Ok, I am giong to ask something that makes perfect sense to me, but maybe not to everyone else.
I want to stop the light pollution. I want Astronomers to be able to see and not have to truck out 1,000 miles to get a dark sky. What to do?
Cities need some light at night, and I suppose the people in Las Vegas just have to have big gaudy signs.
But what about just going to all the streetlights, and putting little hoods on them with reflective insides? Facing down? Like the ones I see on older lights near my building?
This accomplishes several things:
1. The light needs to be on the street and not in the sky. If you direct more of it to the ground it is far more useful.
2. Fewer streetlights = less expensive to build them and less energy used to boot. Saves $$$$!
3. Doesn't bother the neighbors. If you have ever lived in a second-floor apartment with a light outside, you know what I mean. Especially if your bedroom is there.
Are people just really attached to lighting the way for people from orbit?
This simple solution has the merit of being inexpensive -- no new technology, no fancy stuff that breaks, and you can keep your existing lights -- just nail on a hunk of scrap metal with one side polished and that would do it. The labor cost of retrofitting lights is there, but you could do it as you replace the bulbs which yuo have to do every now and then anyhow.
Are there any cities that have tried this?
Hamlet
2004-Aug-25, 03:54 PM
Are there any cities that have tried this?
Have a look at the International Dark-Sky Association (http://www.darksky.org/). They've been working with communities to do just whay you are suggesting.
ToSeek
2004-Aug-25, 04:40 PM
Are there any cities that have tried this?
I read a book a while back with a chapter about how San Diego (with Mount Palomar) had been very good about controlling light pollution until somebody ran for mayor (and won) with the platform including eliminating the restrictions on light pollution because it was costing money.
Are there any cities that have tried this?
I read a book a while back with a chapter about how San Diego (with Mount Palomar) had been very good about controlling light pollution until somebody ran for mayor (and won) with the platform including eliminating the restrictions on light pollution because it was costing money.
Or rather wasn't costing enough money? :lol:
milli360
2004-Aug-25, 08:20 PM
Hopefully this has not been posted, I didn't see any Topic Titles that seemed to fit.
I was lookiong at APOD to relax a bit before bed tonight and found this pic that is a few days old. ICK (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208/earthlights02_dmsp_big.jpg) is all I can say about that picture.
A few days? :)
That's from August, two years ago (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html). And even then, it was a repeat from two years before that (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html). Great stuff.
Andromeda321
2004-Aug-25, 08:39 PM
Ok, I hate light pollution as much as anyone and am an IDA member first off. But despite this whenever I look at a picture like that showing the Earth at night I can't help but cheer for us humans who dare to confront the stars, and be humbled by its beauty.
Am I nuts or does anyone else think that sometimes?
ToSeek
2004-Aug-25, 09:17 PM
That's from August, two years ago (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html). And even then, it was a repeat from two years before that (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html). Great stuff.
Isn't there some interesting new stuff in the sky, or are they trying to make a point? This reminds me of when Ann Landers was caught recycling old letters.
Glom
2004-Aug-25, 09:37 PM
There's a message there. We conquered the night, we'll conquer everything else.
AndrewGPaul
2004-Aug-25, 10:00 PM
Another interesting thing to point out is how the two most populated countries; China and India have hardly any light density at all. This goes to show how underdeveloped they are. Africa looks pretty dim too.
Japan on the other hand looks like it could melt some polar ice caps. :lol:
India looks about as bright as eastern Europe, or the midwest USA.
It's North Korea that's interesting. It looks like there's only one lightbulb in the entire country :) It's pretty much only detectable because you know South Korea isn't an island.
AZgazer
2004-Aug-25, 10:27 PM
LOL, I just hit previous day on the picture. Suppose I should read the fine print, hehe. The picture is strikingly pretty, however it was the quantity of light that umm shocked me so much that I didn't even see the fine print. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :P)
Here in Champaign-Urbana our Club CUAS (http://www.prairienet.org/cuas/) is preparing to wage light war on the surrounding communities. One of our members is putting the polishing touches on our presentation. All that is left is to make some noise and hopefully a difference. :) We have a web page with info at C-U light pollution (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~uias/lightpollution/) if anyone wants to take a peek.
JustAGuy
2004-Aug-25, 10:53 PM
Here in Champaign-Urbana our Club CUAS (http://www.prairienet.org/cuas/) is preparing to wage light war on the surrounding communities.
Am I the only one that read this and imagined some kind of reduced death military operation? "It's War Light! Now with 50% less casualties!" Instead of shooting at the enemy, you just throw big rocks or something...
AZgazer
2004-Aug-26, 01:04 AM
Am I the only one that read this and imagined some kind of reduced death military operation? "It's War Light! Now with 50% less casualties!" Instead of shooting at the enemy, you just throw big rocks or something...
Someone suggested a Sniper Team to um engage the "enemy." I strongly lobbied for approval, but alas cooler heads prevailed. :evil: We shall try diplomacy...
*looks over shoulder before opening secret LP map*
:wink:
The above mentioned Sniper Team & map are purely fictional and in no manner reflect actual events or the position of the Board Owner or the CUAS.
Cylinder
2004-Aug-26, 01:55 AM
...you can tell the route of the Trans-Siberia Railroad in Russia.
That's the second thing that struck me about that photo (after I found my hometown.)
What's that lone light in the extreme northern part of N America?
...you can tell the route of the Trans-Siberia Railroad in Russia.
That's the second thing that struck me about that photo (after I found my hometown.)
What's that lone light in the extreme northern part of N America?
I think there's a diamond mine up in that area. I could be wrong mind you.
Only map I could find is on kimberlite deposits. The dots appear to match up as well.
http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/maps/economic/diamondexploration/locationofkimberlites
TriangleMan
2004-Aug-26, 11:16 AM
What's that lone light in the extreme northern part of N America?
Which one, the big light in the northern coast of Alaska or the small light amongst the arctic islands?
Argos
2004-Aug-26, 12:34 PM
Any info about the exposure time? Is that really the sight one has from orbit at a glance, or was the photo saturated by exposure to achieve a more appealing effect?
Argos
2004-Aug-26, 12:49 PM
Another thing, where are the oil platforms of the North Sea? We can see much fainter things, like villages in the interior of Africa, and even the little light from the Falklands.
ToSeek
2004-Aug-26, 02:42 PM
Any info about the exposure time? Is that really the sight one has from orbit at a glance, or was the photo saturated by exposure to achieve a more appealing effect?
It sounds as if the sensors are much more sensitive than the human eye, so the appearance is exaggerated. Technical paper on the subject. (http://spidr.ngdc.noaa.gov/spidr/nl_usa_doc.html)
Argos
2004-Aug-26, 03:29 PM
Ok, now I understand it has nothing to do with exposure. They add a little near infra-red to the image, among other things. Thanks ToSeek.
Maksutov
2004-Aug-26, 03:38 PM
Any info about the exposure time? Is that really the sight one has from orbit at a glance, or was the photo saturated by exposure to achieve a more appealing effect?
One other thing to consider. A photo of almost the entire globe at night, i.e., in shadow? ~50% should come to mind. :wink:
Plus figure in the altitude of the platform taking the picture and its maximum field of view.
These were some of the technical problems with that chain email from a few years back.
Avatar28
2004-Aug-26, 03:42 PM
Any info about the exposure time? Is that really the sight one has from orbit at a glance, or was the photo saturated by exposure to achieve a more appealing effect?
One other thing to consider. A photo of almost the entire globe at night, i.e., in shadow? ~50% should come to mind. :wink:
Plus figure in the altitude of the platform taking the picture and its maximum field of view.
These were some of the technical problems with that chain email from a few years back.
Obviously you couldn't get the whole earth in one shot. Not to mention that I HIGHLY doubt you would EVER see the entire planet without a single cloud. It's quite obviously a mosaic of a number of different photographs stitched together.
Trebuchet
2004-Aug-26, 07:30 PM
Obviously you couldn't get the whole earth in one shot. Not to mention that I HIGHLY doubt you would EVER see the entire planet without a single cloud. It's quite obviously a mosaic of a number of different photographs stitched together.
Which is just what it says in the APOD caption. Hundreds of photos in fact.
These were taken by the DMSP satellites, whose primary purpose is to watch for missle launches!
It' s a very cool picture. Quite interesting to see the contrast between North and South Korea, or between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Or how most of the light in Canada is within a couple hundred miles of the US border.
Kaptain K
2004-Aug-27, 03:37 AM
Well, that's just the visible light sources.
As opposed to the invisible light sources? :oops: Sorry, I just couldn't resist! :wink:
ngc3314
2004-Aug-27, 12:52 PM
Obviously you couldn't get the whole earth in one shot. Not to mention that I HIGHLY doubt you would EVER see the entire planet without a single cloud. It's quite obviously a mosaic of a number of different photographs stitched together.
The whole planet cloudless? Do you have any idea of how many telescopes would have to be broken at one time for that to happen?
Argos
2004-Aug-27, 01:27 PM
Well, that's just the visible light sources.
Well, over the link ToSeek provided above they say that near infrared is added to the picture, so that it gets more "compact". Thus, in the visible the appearance wouldn’t be that dramatic. Also, the algorithm used to compose the image eliminates ephemeral light sources, as forest burns.
Avatar28
2004-Aug-27, 06:39 PM
Obviously you couldn't get the whole earth in one shot. Not to mention that I HIGHLY doubt you would EVER see the entire planet without a single cloud. It's quite obviously a mosaic of a number of different photographs stitched together.
The whole planet cloudless? Do you have any idea of how many telescopes would have to be broken at one time for that to happen?
Um, every telescope on the planet pretty much?
Launch window
2004-Aug-29, 12:55 AM
Hopefully this has not been posted, I didn't see any Topic Titles that seemed to fit.
I was lookiong at APOD to relax a bit before bed tonight and found this pic that is a few days old. ICK (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208/earthlights02_dmsp_big.jpg) is all I can say about that picture.
you can read some more at this page
http://www.universetoday.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3936
....am both tired and fed-up of trying to get something done about the street lighting in my area. I have tried local and national government but all to no avail. Has anyone out there got any suggestions...
snowcelt
2005-Aug-04, 07:43 AM
I did not want to start a new northern lights thread, so I caste about on old threads and found this one to be somewhat appropriate.
I looked out my balcony a few minutes ago and to my surprise, to the north are beautiful northern lights!
I have been flippant about how easy it is to see this wondrous phenomenon in the past because they are common at the latitude I live at. But, what makes this visitation real neat is that I am in the middle of Edmonton! I am lucky if I see bright stars most nights in this light pollution hell. There are oil refineries and all sorts of light spewing businesses all around my local.
Went out and looked again: they are gone. :(
I just thought I would share, what I think is amazing, something I never thought I would ever see in a large metro zone---a miillion people plus.
I wonder how intense the light would have to be to shine through the light of this city?
Good viewing anyone in central Alberta.
Launch window
2005-Aug-04, 11:30 AM
Ok, I hate light pollution as much as anyone and am an IDA member first off. But despite this whenever I look at a picture like that showing the Earth at night I can't help but cheer for us humans who dare to confront the stars, and be humbled by its beauty.
Am I nuts or does anyone else think that sometimes?
I think its a shocking waste of electricity, especially with all this trouble ion the Middle East and Oil prices
Have you seen these images
http://www.lightpollution.it/worldatlas/images/fig1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/sjastroc/usnight2.gif
LINK (http://images.es-designs.com/ianrever/globalasia3Vb.jpg)
Pic (http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/Images/pollution-lumineuse-cinzano180.jpg)
NEOWatcher
2005-Aug-04, 12:05 PM
That's from August, two years ago (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html). And even then, it was a repeat from two years before that (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html). Great stuff.
Isn't there some interesting new stuff in the sky, or are they trying to make a point? This reminds me of when Ann Landers was caught recycling old letters.
The 2003 pictures all stemmed from the N.E. US blackout, and the fake picture that was floating around. Explainations here (http://www.snopes.com/photos/blackout.asp) and here. (http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s2015.htm)
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