[aliensdidit pyramid thread] [Archive]

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 04:17 AM

Well, I don't want to create another topic so I will just post what would have been in a new topic:

A brand new book is coming out next February that will show that the Egyptians did not build their pyramids as simple burials for the dead, but in fact as some sort of recovery vault because of cataclysmic events of the Earth. This being that the pyramids are some kind of clock that show when the Earth's axis tilt wil suddenly shift. Basically the summary of the book goes like this:

A detailed study of the proportions of the Giza pyramids and how they reveal shifts in the Earth’s axis in the remote past - and near future.

Debunks the “pyramids as tombs” theory and shows how they are “recovery vaults” to ensure the rebirth of civilization after a global disaster
Explains in detail how the angles and geometry of the Great Pyramid record a shift of the world’s axis in 3980 BCE and predict more to come
Uncovers the location of an additional as-yet-undiscovered “recovery vault” on the Giza plateau, as revealed in the myth of Osiris

Offering a radical new perspective on the Great Pyramid of Giza and all the structures surrounding it, including the Sphinx, the authors show how the designers of Giza intentionally arranged these massive structures to create an astronomical timeline recording catastrophic events in the past as well as warning later generations of the precise times of future catastrophes. They reveal how the Old Kingdom pyramids of Giza were created,
not as tombs for the pharaohs and their queens, but as “recovery vaults” to ensure the rebirth of the Kingdom of Egypt after a global disaster by acting as storehouses for ancient Egyptian culture - its tools, seeds, art, and sacred texts.
Through the use of photos, maps, and diagrams of the Giza plateau, the authors explain in detail how the angles and geometry of the Great Pyramid align with the stars of Orion’s Belt to encode an important message: that changes in the tilt of the world’s axis have occurred in the remote past, most recently in 3980 BCE, and will occur again in the near future.

"Highlighting the ubiquitous appearance of 23.5-degree angles - the most important of the precessional angles encoded in the Giza pyramids - in classic works of art from antiquity through the present day including the work of Leonardo da Vinci and portraits of John the Baptist and George Washington, they reveal how this angle, the Great Pyramid, and its fateful message are tied to Freemasonry and other secret societies and how these groups may know of the coming polar shift. Concluding with the remarkable revelation triggered by the myth of Osiris that there may be an asyet- undiscovered 14th “recovery vault” on the Giza plateau, the authors show that the prophecy of Giza is a message of first importance to our own civilization."

http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/gizaprophecy.html

Not only that, it then goes into a kind of conspiracy where it states that this knowledge was secretly past down to painters, the freemasons and other secret societies would leave clues. This is down to the work of Gary Osborn, who thinks he is able to show how these paintings especially by Nicholas Poussin), as shown in these links:

http://www.freewebs.com/garyosborn/235degrees.htm
http://garyosborn.webs.com/thepoussincode.htm
http://garyosborn.webs.com/thepoussincodept2.htm
http://garyosborn.webs.com/thepoussincodept3.htm
http://garyosborn.webs.com/orionandshepherds.htm

And he also referrences other works that suggest that people like Jean Cocteau knew about sudden shifts in the Earth's axis - http://www.amazon.com/Cutting-Orm-Secret-Calendar-ebook/dp/B004MPRAD4/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321721753&sr=1-2

If you to find to out more information, Scott Creighon has his own forum on AboveTopSecret where he gives more evidence for his claims - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/162/pg1/srtpages

Is it true? Are the Pyramids some kind of map that shows some sort of cycle of axis shifts? Is there any evidence that the Earth's axis tilt has ever had a sudden shift with disastrous consequences. Is there some sort of conspiracy to show this, I think Scott and Gary think this. I know some of it sounds like Psuedoscience but has there ever been astronomical or geological record of the Earth, in what ever way, having some sudden shift in its axis tilt. This is different from the whole Polar shift idea but is said to have still the same shattering effects or of the same equivelant.

LaurelHS

2011-Nov-20, 04:29 AM

Do you actually want to discuss this or are you just spamming more links?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 04:44 AM

Forget about the original post, I want us to discuss the ideas that this Scott Creighton and Gary Osborn are going to present in their new book. The big question is whether there is evidence of sudden shifts in the Earths axis tilt, and whether the pyramids are actually some kind of clock and recovery vault based on this and that it somehow has a correlation with the Orion belt?

LaurelHS

2011-Nov-20, 04:49 AM

The evidence presented in the Gary Osborn series of links seems to be that some guy randomly drew lines between objects in a painting and then said they lined up with Orion. Inconclusive to say the least.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 05:05 AM

That was covered on a blog that seem to give a good skeptical outlook on the whole idea of 23.5 being some sacred number that gives clues to some great ancient knowledge: http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/10/checking_up_on_old_friends_gar.php

However its the first comment (thats from Gary) that go intoo the idea (that is used by Scott Creighton) that there have been cycles in Earth's history that saw cataclysmic shifts in the Earth's aaxis, he going into a number of extract that prop up this idea of there being changes in the Earth's season. This going into the idea that the Giza pyramid is some kind of map, clock or code to show when previous andd future axis shifts will happen.

I manage to find a powerpoint presentation he created, that explains the mass extinction events like a comet impace in thee Ice Age and how that is connected with the Egyptions planned http://tinyurl.com/6q2m7s5

RAF_Blackace

2011-Nov-20, 05:20 AM

Does anyone remember a guy called Immanuel Velikovsky who in the 50's wrote the books "Worlds in Collision" and "Ages in Chaos" ?

Seems like some people do. Scott Creighton and Gary Osborn to name a but a few.

On the Shoulders of Giants also applies to Conspiracy theorists it seems.

Tensor

2011-Nov-20, 05:27 AM

Well, I don't want to create another topic

Lots of silly stuff snipped....

And he also referrences other works that suggest that people like Jean Cocteau knew about sudden shifts in the Earth's axis

That's what happened to Belle's other two brothers in La Belle et la Bête. Ahhhhh, Cocteau was very perceptive.

Is it true? Are the Pyramids some kind of map that shows some sort of cycle of axis shifts?

Short answer.....of course not.

Is there any evidence that the Earth's axis tilt has ever had a sudden shift with disastrous consequences. Is there some sort of conspiracy to show this, I think Scott and Gary think this. I know some of it sounds like Psuedoscience but has there ever been astronomical or geological record of the Earth, in what ever way, having some sudden shift in its axis tilt. This is different from the whole Polar shift idea but is said to have still the same shattering effects or of the same equivelant.

You know, it took me all of two minutes to find this (http://themasonicblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/fantasies-about-freemasonry-i-gary.html), this (http://goodmath.blogspot.com/2006/05/magic-23.html), and this (http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/10/checking_up_on_old_friends_gar.php). All refutations of Gary Osborn's silly ramblings and fantasies. As far as Scott Creighton goes, it took a bit longer, for a couple of reasons. One, you spelled his name wrong. Two, he's got so much crazy stuff out on the web, I wouldn't even know where to start. Pyramids and sudden axis tilt, the US and the EU stealing from Libyan citizens, 9/11, Israel, the New York Times as a organ of the US government. Why would anyone believe someone who has that much paranoid postings on the web?

Why is it that you can spend a lot of time finding all the crazy stuff online, but can't seem to spend the less than thirty minutes it took me to find the refutations of all the crazy stuff, or even just verify the fact the most of someone's postings are nothing but paranoid ravings? From the view of this poster, it appears you don't want to find the refutations, you just want to post the crazy stuff. Well, have at it. I'm just posting to show others how easy it is to find the refutations of stupid, silly stuff or worse, the

Tensor

2011-Nov-20, 05:32 AM

On the Shoulders of Giants also applies to Conspiracy theorists it seems.

I'm not sure it's "on the shoulders of giants". At least Velikovsky could make his nonsense interesting and almost, sorta, kinda believable. These guys don't even get close, it's like they're tripping over Velikovsky's feet, not standing on his shoulders.

RAF_Blackace

2011-Nov-20, 05:49 AM

I bet they read his books though.

Tensor

2011-Nov-20, 06:30 AM

I bet they read his books though.

LOL, I'll give you that.

novaderrik

2011-Nov-20, 07:44 AM

i thought the Great Pyramid was built to hide a giant weapon that was going to be used to destroy the sun to free up all the energon that is locked up in the earth's crust.. Michael Bay wouldn't lie to me, would he?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 07:45 AM

That's what happened to Belle's other two brothers in La Belle et la Bête. Ahhhhh, Cocteau was very perceptive.

Short answer.....of course not.

You know, it took me all of two minutes to find this (http://themasonicblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/fantasies-about-freemasonry-i-gary.html), this (http://goodmath.blogspot.com/2006/05/magic-23.html), and this (http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/10/checking_up_on_old_friends_gar.php). All refutations of Gary Osborn's silly ramblings and fantasies. As far as Scott Creighton goes, it took a bit longer, for a couple of reasons. One, you spelled his name wrong. Two, he's got so much crazy stuff out on the web, I wouldn't even know where to start. Pyramids and sudden axis tilt, the US and the EU stealing from Libyan citizens, 9/11, Israel, the New York Times as a organ of the US government. Why would anyone believe someone who has that much paranoid postings on the web?

Why is it that you can spend a lot of time finding all the crazy stuff online, but can't seem to spend the less than thirty minutes it took me to find the refutations of all the crazy stuff, or even just verify the fact the most of someone's postings are nothing but paranoid ravings? From the view of this poster, it appears you don't want to find the refutations, you just want to post the crazy stuff. Well, have at it. I'm just posting to show others how easy it is to find the refutations of stupid, silly stuff or worse, the

I think that one is a completly diferent person. Scott Creighton who is writting on the theory of pyramids is from Scotland, while from what I understandd the other person on the latter two topics is a completly different person who lives in the States.

Its not just the whole idea about sudden axis tilt shifts. But whether the ancient Egyptions were part of some master plan that shows some sort of doomsday clock. he wrote a powerpoint presentation that presents this theory an how its encoded in the pyramid http://tinyurl.com/6q2m7s5

What do we know about earth catyclisms and do they collaborate with sudden shifts in the Earth's tilt? I think its suggesting that the Earth had a perfect balance and then for some reason it suddenly tilted, whether it was North and South is the question.

Noclevername

2011-Nov-20, 08:01 AM

What do we know about earth catyclisms and do they collaborate with sudden shifts in the Earth's tilt? I think its suggesting that the Earth had a perfect balance and then for some reason it suddenly tilted, whether it was North and South is the question.

What do you mean by "perfect balance"? The spin of the Earth (stabilized by the Moon as a "counterweight") varies only a few degrees over millenia-- it does not suddenly tilt.

Here's what googling "Earth axis" got me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_axis#Values

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-20, 08:24 AM

Forget about the original post, I want us to discuss the ideas that this SPAMMMED NAME and SPAMMMED NAME are going to present in their new book.
No you don't, you want to spam more names and links.

It's abundantly clear by now that's you only purpose in being here.

Are they actually paying you for doing this or is it just something you do to annoy?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 09:26 AM

If you are going to not contribute anything usefull to this topic and just make baseless and malicouss acusations then please just leave this thread.

Ok so Gary's idea of the Earth having a perfect tilt is a bit silly. But what about Scott's idea that the ancient cultures recorded chenges in the Earth's axis in times like 3980bc.

I think these ideas are expanded in this thread he made here http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread531478/pg1, where he expands on these ideas and how it relates to the constellations of the Orion belt.

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 09:58 AM

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-20, 10:21 AM

If you are going to not contribute anything usefull to this topic and just make baseless and malicouss acusations then please just leave this thread.

Ok so NAME's idea of the Earth having a perfect tilt is a bit silly. But what about NAME's idea that the ancient cultures recorded chenges in the Earth's axis in times like 3980bc.

I think these ideas are expanded in this thread he made here ANOTHER LINK, where he expands on these ideas and how it relates to the constellations of the Orion belt.
That you chose to add yet another link, with absolutely no relevance to the bit you were responding to, just shows exactly the behavior I was referring to.

Your response in itself confirmed my impression that you are just here to post links and name names and definitely disproves your statement that my impression is baseless.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 11:41 AM

How would the Egyptians know all this stuff. They had reasonably advanced astronomy for making calendars, because this was vital to them - predicting the flooding of the Nile was absolutely essential to their agriculture and even survival. There is no reason to believe they could predict the future or would know anything about the axis tilting.

There was some discussion of the axis tilt idea in one of the Comet Elenin/Nibiru threads (I would look it up but there is clearly no point providing you with information) and it was pointed out that the energy released would pretty much liquefy the Earth. Therefore there would be no trace if it had happened in the past. Therefore (a) it must have happened billions of years ago if it happened at all and (b) how would the Egyptians know about it?

And how come the painters, who are known to like the occasional alcoholic beverage and are frequently unstable, have never revealed this great secret?

From what Scott Creighton argues is that the Egyptions based the positions of the pyramids on the Orion Belts in the constitution, from the tiny url and from what he delves into such as topics like this - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread769371/pg1. He is certain that (along with Gary) that becuase they are based on the Orion constitution that this (along with other evidence) they were able to calculate when these events occured.

Also he posted a national geographic article that seems to show sudden shifts as possble:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394987/pg1

For much of the past 70,000 years, the Sahara has closely resembled the desert it is today. Some 12,000 years ago, however, a wobble in the Earth's axis and other factors caused Africa's seasonal monsoons to shift slightly north, bringing new rains to an area nearly the size of the contiguous United States. Lush watersheds stretched across the Sahara, from Egypt to Mauritania, drawing animal life and eventually people

I would really recommed people look at his website and his section on AboveTopSecret, instead of me giving poor summaries of his evidence and arguments:
http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/index.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/162/pg1/srtpages

KaiYeves

2011-Nov-20, 02:19 PM

Synopisis (seriously, don't bother watching unless you really have time to waste. There really is nothing to see, it's all just set-up for the "veracity" of the implied claim):

Someone sticks a radio control camera on a radio control car, shows way too much footage of travel to Egypt, and then supposedly drives it into a pyramid down some shaft.

The presumed claim is they saw something they think someone won't want other people to see, and money will make it all go away, so they demand money.

My vote: viral advertising for some movie or game.

At the end of the clip is the URL of a website, which simply displays still from the shaft, and a count-down. Be prepared, in 28 days there'll be a new XBOX or PS3 game to buy, or movie to go see.

Geez, if "they" don't want "us" to see the video, why don't "they" just whack this guy? And who let him drive his car into the "secret area" in the first place? And how far does radio control work within/through the rock that pyramids are made of? And... ?
So, a really cheapo version of the Pyramid Rover (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2259838.stm)?

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 02:53 PM

From what Scott Creighton argues ...

I kinda hoped you might think about it and come up with an answer of your own; e.g. we can "align things with Orion" and in general we have more detailed and more accurate information of things in the sky and on earth and yet...

I would really recommed people look at ...

No reason to. It is prima facie nonsense. Without some evidence to make it plausible, there is no reason to look at any of it.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 06:27 PM

Well its strikes me no one is bothering to look at things like the powerpoint presentation or the threads he is creating, becuase he provides evidence for that.

Swift

2011-Nov-20, 06:45 PM

I have split these posts from this thread in OTB (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/124378-quot-You-have-30-days-to-pay-me-5-000-000...-quot?p=1960764#post1960764).

aliensdidit - You can not just decide to take a thread you start and drag it off into a new direction, particular when it involves non-mainstream ideas. Second, since I am never sure how much you believe these things or not, but you keep dragging them out, until you show otherwise, I am holding you responsible as the advocate of the ideas presented in the first post of this new thread. That means all the responsibilities of the CT forum apply - you have to present evidence to support the ideas and you have to answer all reasonable questions about the idea. If you are not willing to do this, then you need to say so at once and this thread will be closed.

Everyone else - I do not want to see any more posts complaining in-thread about aliensdidit's posting style, topics, or links. If you have any problems with that, you should report them and let the moderation team deal with it (we are very aware of the issues). Anyone who does complain in thread, will be infracted - no more warnings.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-20, 06:52 PM

My grandfather was a Mason. Are you really suggesting that he knew the secrets to the universe because he went to lunch meetings with them once a month?

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-20, 07:11 PM

...so Gary's idea of the Earth having a perfect tilt is a bit silly. But what about Scott's idea that the ancient cultures recorded chenges in the Earth's axis in times like 3980bc.

Even sillier...

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-20, 07:30 PM

My grandfather was a Mason. Are you really suggesting that he knew the secrets to the universe because he went to lunch meetings with them once a month?

I'm thinking there can't be that many "secrets to the universe" if they can be "covered" during once a month lunch meetings.

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 07:32 PM

Also he posted a national geographic article that seems to show sudden shifts as possble:

Nowhere does that article say it was "sudden". Neither does it say that it would be a "global disaster".

Presumably he is hoping that no one will (a) read the original article or (b) think.

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-20, 07:40 PM

I would really recommed people look at his website and his section on AboveTopSecret, instead of me giving poor summaries of his evidence and arguments...

Reviewing Scott's website doesn't inspire confidence in his investigative abilities. If the purpose of his site is to convince others...well, it convinced me that he is a "woo" with zero evidence for his ideas.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 07:48 PM

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 07:57 PM

Wow. I just went to his website and started reading one of his "essays" on the origin of the cubit. His stated aim is to produce a unit of measurement that is not arbitrary; i.e. based on the laws of nature. So he bases this on a pendulum with a 2 second swing and comes up with a length of ~39 inches.

This is beyond stupid. Anyone who could write this should not just be ignored, they should be ridiculed and put in the village stocks.

aliensdidit: do you see why this is just profoundly ignorant, arbitrary and just dumb?

Here is a clue: "2 seconds"

And then he says this:

By simply adding the height and width of the Great Pyramid together we find the
value of 14,839 inches. This is an interesting figure in its own right simply by virtue
of the fact that it demonstrates the key values of 148 and 39!

aliensdidit: do you understand why that is nothing but numerology?

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 07:58 PM

But the problem is that my knowledge of the topics covered is zilch.

So do some research. Which means "library" not "youtube".

Hornblower

2011-Nov-20, 08:02 PM

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-20, 08:36 PM

But the problem is that my knowledge of the topics covered is zilch. So the only way I can provide evidence is through links like that powerpoint presentation and the threads he created.

You have no knowledge of the topic, yet you promote it here.

If anyone actually looked at them they would find he is producing evidence, whether you agree or not.

So even though his evidence is crap, we are to what?...respect his outrageous claims?

I don't think so....

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 08:52 PM

Not respect it, but look at his theories and evidence and present other evidence that go against his. I thought everyone did that.

pzkpfw

2011-Nov-20, 08:54 PM

I thought everyone did that.

Do you?

(And when someone else does, do you pay attention or do you ignore it?)

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-20, 09:04 PM

...look at his theories and evidence and present other evidence that go against his.

Why do we have to prove him wrong?...why can't he prove himself right??

Strange

2011-Nov-20, 09:13 PM

Not respect it, but look at his theories and evidence and present other evidence that go against his.

Judging by the first (and only) thing I looked at, he doesn't have "evidence" he just writes meaningless drivel, as would be obvious to anyone who thought about it. I don't know if he is just ignorant (and lacking in critical thinking skills) or just hoping to cynically make money by selling books to those who are.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-20, 09:37 PM

Not respect it, but look at his theories and evidence and present other evidence that go against his. I thought everyone did that.

Most of us don't just continually believe everything we read, no. But that doesn't mean we have to share the garbage we read with others. I second the suggestion that you go to a library. Really study ancient Egypt, pole shifts, and anything else that someone is citing if you don't know what that person is talking about. It will seldom take you very long to realize that they don't, either. It would also be polite of you to acknowledge that people are doing your work for you by educating you, and it would be polite of you to maybe change your opinions when it's shown that the people you're trusting are wrong all the time.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 09:44 PM

I must also ask, is anybody confusing this with the whole pole shift, where the magnetic poles will shift? Becuase that is a completly different thing all together

And by the way, looking at one of the topics he posted, he thinks something is fisshy and has called one poart of Egypt its Area 51:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread345454/pg1

Sardonicone

2011-Nov-20, 09:47 PM

I must also ask, is anybody confusing this with the whole pole shift, where the magnetic poles will shift? Becuase that is a completly different thing all together.

Yes, one actually happens (the magnetic pole shift). The other kind is just pure rubbish.

Swift

2011-Nov-20, 10:29 PM

But the problem is that my knowledge of the topics covered is zilch. So the only way I can provide evidence is through links like that powerpoint presentation and the threads he created. If anyone actually looked at them they would find he is producing evidence, whether you agree or not.
You may posts links as part of your evidence, but you may not just post a link. You have to give some summary as to what is at that link and why you think it is relevant to the topic. And if the link is to a large website, particularly that covers multiple topics, you need to say exactly what part of that website you think is relevant. Quoting (using the quote function) the highlights from the link is highly advisable.

And stop assuming that others are not reading what you post, frankly it is insulting.

Garrison

2011-Nov-20, 11:04 PM

From what Scott Creighton argues is that the Egyptions based the positions of the pyramids on the Orion Belts in the constitution

'The pyramids'? What all 118 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids#Number_and_location_of_pyramids) of them? Typically the authors of this nonsense pretend the Giza pyramids exist in splendid isolation and ignore the long and complex history they have in Egypt.

I would really recommed people look at his website and his section on AboveTopSecret, instead of me giving poor summaries of his evidence and arguments:

I would recommend you stop posting links to woo sites and go do some real research on the history of the pyramids.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 11:11 PM

You may posts links as part of your evidence, but you may not just post a link. You have to give some summary as to what is at that link and why you think it is relevant to the topic. And if the link is to a large website, particularly that covers multiple topics, you need to say exactly what part of that website you think is relevant. Quoting (using the quote function) the highlights from the link is highly advisable.

And stop assuming that others are not reading what you post, frankly it is insulting.

Ok I apologise...

Well I was able to find more information and he argues that many early societies have written about great tilts and the sky falling, in texts such as the Oera Linda books and various others. He concludes using mathematics on the Pyramids he that it shows when the Earth fell (this is only part of it, other essays deal with the Orion belt theory) - http://tinyurl.com/6q2m7s5

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 11:14 PM

'The pyramids'? What all 118 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids#Number_and_location_of_pyramids) of them? Typically the authors of this nonsense pretend the Giza pyramids exist in splendid isolation and ignore the long and complex history they have in Egypt.

I would recommend you stop posting links to woo sites and go do some real research on the history of the pyramids.

Its a bit difficcult whne youalso have 3 essays to do. I'm doing those while typing on this forum. Plus library time is used for research on the essays. It's a tight schedule as it is and its difficult to do hard research on it. Plus Scott is covering multiple fields, ancient History, Geology, Mathematics ect.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-20, 11:32 PM

Then stop wasting time on woo sites and write your essays.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-20, 11:48 PM

LaurelHS

2011-Nov-20, 11:58 PM

Its a bit difficult when it is stuck in your mind and won't leave. Its hard to concentrate on something else when there is so manny quuestionss that you just want answers for to be able to make sense of everything. It just won't go away.

Its harder than yoou think, you've never been in a position like me.
I guess you ignored Gillianren when she empathised with you in this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/123112-Dr.-Carol-Rosin-and-the-staged-aliien-invasion-theory/page2) and told you she had experience with mental illness on a personal level. I would suggest that you not make assumptions and tell people they've never been in a position like you when you don't know them.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 12:19 AM

I guess you ignored Gillianren when she empathised with you in this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/123112-Dr.-Carol-Rosin-and-the-staged-aliien-invasion-theory/page2) and told you she had experience with mental illness on a personal level. I would suggest that you not make assumptions and tell people they've never been in a position like you when you don't know them.

Well sorry. But I don't like it when people make assumptions on me, which has happened a couple of times.

Look, I am going to the GP to book an appointment for a mental health check up. I personally think its an anxiety problem that keep me drawn into all of this.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-21, 01:50 AM

Noclevername

2011-Nov-21, 02:09 AM

Look, I am going to the GP to book an appointment for a mental health check up.

That's a good start, I hope it helps.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 02:10 AM

Yes, it sounds like anxiety. But one of the most important things I learned was that you need to develop coping mechanisms, which includes knowing when to walk away. In fact, these days, my worst problems come when I don't. And you say you don't like it when people make assumptions about you, but you made a big, fat one about me right there, didn't you?

Well excuse me, its hard not to make accusations when you keep getting accused on baseless grounds. So sorry when I react and do it as well.

Can we please get back on topic, such as discussing the power point presentation.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 02:15 AM

That's a good start, I hope it helps.

You won't believe, but a lot of the things I have posted on here, there really is a part of me that is teeling "come on, you know this is rubbish". But there are just so many lose ends, grey areas and questions that I still get nervous that I keep posting on here. I think I just wat some expert or some one who is intelligent to guide me through allof this and give me a comfortin voice to calm me. I can't think this through and I just get lost in the maze. Its like there is a whole new world out there that you are in to explore but you just want to leave.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-21, 02:53 AM

Can we please get back on topic, such as discussing the power point presentation.

Fine. It's garbage and you should stop linking to things like that.

Noclevername

2011-Nov-21, 03:11 AM

You won't believe, but a lot of the things I have posted on here, there really is a part of me that is teeling "come on, you know this is rubbish". But there are just so many lose ends, grey areas and questions that I still get nervous that I keep posting on here. I think I just wat some expert or some one who is intelligent to guide me through allof this and give me a comfortin voice to calm me. I can't think this through and I just get lost in the maze. Its like there is a whole new world out there that you are in to explore but you just want to leave.

Then leave it, it's not a new world, it's just an old set of stage dressing. It's mostly two types of messages-- rantings from the unbalanced, and con artists with a new medium to hawk their snake oil.

The way not to get lost in the maze is just to walk right out of it and not look back. Go cold-turkey, and make a pact with yourself to quit Youtube and woo sites for good. Don't look at them, and if you start thinking about them, go away from the computer and do something else instead.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 03:30 AM

Then leave it, it's not a new world, it's just an old set of stage dressing. It's mostly two types of messages-- rantings from the unbalanced, and con artists with a new medium to hawk their snake oil.

The way not to get lost in the maze is just to walk right out of it and not look back. Go cold-turkey, and make a pact with yourself to quit Youtube and woo sites for good. Don't look at them, and if you start thinking about them, go away from the computer and do something else instead.

Its easier said then done, I've been trying i for months. Its not even when I'm on the computer. I could just be in the pub with friends, reading in the library, watching TV, taking a walk. Something justs flashes in my mind and some of the things I have seen start popping back into my mind. I start getting a sense of anxiety. It then just builds up an up and I think of all the loose ends and grey areas and it makes memore anxious. It then builds up and up and I start to ppanick and its all back to square one.
Not to mention even the mass media can be a pain an show things like this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061737/Marta-Yegorovnam-keeps-alien-fridge-Russian-woman-stores-corpse-2-years.html

So unless I lock myself in a cardbook boxs its impossible.

Do you see how this is really difficult? I mean not to mention that I have seen a lot of other weird things that I have not discussed before. When I forget about one hing its usually becuase I get some sort of reminder of something else and go back to. Hence the maze metaphor. I do wonder how counceling could fix that? Is it completly down to anxiety?

(BTW, shouldn't we really go back on topic?)

LaurelHS

2011-Nov-21, 03:44 AM

I do wonder how counceling [sic] could fix that? Is it completly [sic] down to anxiety?
Cognitive behavioural therapy, for one, is based on recognizing and altering your destructive thought patterns. It sounds like psychobabble when I try to explain, but it's actually very sensible.

Noclevername

2011-Nov-21, 04:19 AM

I'm just starting CBT with my therapist.

(BTW, shouldn't we really go back on topic?)

There is no geological, biological or astronomical evidence of any sudden shift in Earth's axis. The motions of Earth's axis have been well-documented for millenia-- pretty much all of recorded history.

The amount of energy required for such a sudden shift (I'm assuming by "prfect balance" that you mean a 0 degree axial tilt?) to the current one would be roughly equivalent to the Big Whack that formed the Moon. If that had happened anytime near the building of the Great Pyramids of Giza (I'm assuming that's the ones you are talking about) or at any time within or near the lifetime of the human race, then humanity wouldn't be here to argue about it.

There is no evidence of a conspiracy among painters or Freemasons regarding shifts of Earth's axis.

The NatGeo article is referring to the natural precession of Earth's axis. The Earth's axial tilt varies between 22.1° and 24.5° with a 41,000 year period. In addition to this steady decrease there are much smaller short term (18.6 years) variations, known as nutation, due to the changing plane of the moon's orbit. This can shift the Earth's axial tilt by plus or minus 0.005 degrees.

Swift

2011-Nov-21, 04:40 AM

(BTW, shouldn't we really go back on topic?)
Yes, everyone needs to get back on topic. aliensdidit, if you would like life-advice, start a thread in OTB. This thread is strictly to discuss this pyramid stuff

Not to mention even the mass media can be a pain an show things like this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061737/Marta-Yegorovnam-keeps-alien-fridge-Russian-woman-stores-corpse-2-years.html
No, do not start posting all sorts of links. As I just said, this thread is only for the pyramid stuff, not Russian aliens or any other topics.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 04:45 AM

I'm just starting CBT with my therapist.

There is no geological, biological or astronomical evidence of any sudden shift in Earth's axis. The motions of Earth's axis have been well-documented for millenia-- pretty much all of recorded history.

The amount of energy required for such a sudden shift (I'm assuming by "prfect balance" that you mean a 0 degree axial tilt?) to the current one would be roughly equivalent to the Big Whack that formed the Moon. If that had happened anytime near the building of the Great Pyramids of Giza (I'm assuming that's the ones you are talking about) or at any time within or near the lifetime of the human race, then humanity wouldn't be here to argue about it.

There is no evidence of a conspiracy among painters or Freemasons regarding shifts of Earth's axis.

The NatGeo article is referring to the natural precession of Earth's axis. The Earth's axial tilt varies between 22.1° and 24.5° with a 41,000 year period. In addition to this steady decrease there are much smaller short term (18.6 years) variations, known as nutation, due to the changing plane of the moon's orbit. This can shift the Earth's axial tilt by plus or minus 0.005 degrees.

Well its a good thing you covered this, becuase a few hours ago I did find what he actually claims is the reason the Earth has sudden shifts in its axis. I do warn you about the first page it does make it look silly. But basically it goes something along the idea of some cosmic superwave from the core of are galaxy and I think he mentions some blue star. It is that what the pyramids are based and this cosmic superwave is the reason for the axis shifts and this ancient knowledge that is being passed down.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/CreightonS2.php?p=1

But wht is confusing is when the next event will happen, becuase according to this post - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread311373/pg1 H estates this 9I think its part of another idea he is presenting)

SC: The 2 'critical alignments' (dates) indicated by the 2 sets of 'Queens Pyramids' at Giza does not necessairly indicate that a catastrophic event WILL occur. It shows only the times when our planet is 'most at risk' of such an occurrence. You have to understand this difference. Personally I honestly do not expect anything significant to happen in 2012AD or 2014AD.

I cannot, however, ignore these two 'critical alignments' (dates) of Orion's Belt the ancient designers of Giza are indicating to us through the placement of the 2 sets of 'Queens Pyramids'. As I have said previously, science is now discovering that a catastrophic event DID occur around the time of the first 'critical alignment', providing the trigger that brought about the end of the last Ice Age.

We have to ask why did the ancient designers of Giza mark that 'critical alignment' (date) in stone? And why then, using the same Orion Belt stars, have they marked the future date of 2014AD? Why are they showing us the precessional cycle of Orion's belt? Are they trying to warn us of a cylical event?

The physicist Dr Paul LaViolette in his book, Earth Under Fire has theorised that the core of our galaxy enters an explosive phase every 11.000 years or thereabouts. LaViolette theorises that the shockwave from these blasts will sometimes bring space debris (asteroids and the like) into a collision course with the Earth, sometimes not. We just don't know. However, the cycle of Galactic Core Explosions (GCEs) will always continue at the same regular interval. The bottom line - best that we prepare ourselves. Just incase.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Regards,

Scott Creighton

He also thinks that the doomsday vault in Norway is basically preperation for this event. Looking at his evidence and idea, is there any possibility?

mercatormac

2011-Nov-21, 06:05 AM

He also thinks that the doomsday vault in Norway is basically preperation for this event. Looking at his evidence and idea, is there any possibility?

Not according to your new friend:

Personally I honestly do not expect anything significant to happen in 2012AD or 2014AD.

Mellow

2011-Nov-21, 12:50 PM

He also thinks that the doomsday vault in Norway is basically preperation for this event. Looking at his evidence and idea, is there any possibility?

Hiya, OK a couple of things to consider. As has been stated before, a pole shift as described would release so much energy that a 'doomsday vault' would be pointless, the contents would be turned to mush.

I did look at the power point presentation and have this observation regarding it... The angles described in the presentation are asserted with a degree of accuracy that is not trustable. The author also takes some quite arbitrary points on the structure to work with, especially regarding ceilings. On one had, measuring from the point where the vertical walls meet the pent roof and in another, taking the peak of a pent roof.

There simply is no consistency and it is clear to me that he is just looking for coincidences to make the causal reader go 'Oooohhhh' he also starts circular reasoning that's bound to end up supporting his original ideas.

By the way, if you look at the cross section diagram of the Great Pyramid at Giza (I've been, it's magnificent) I could present a better argument that the Queens chamber was built first (a smaller pyramid) and then the Kings chamber built later as part of what was effectively a pyramid extension. This neatly explains why the 'airshafts' to the queens chamber do not reach the surface of the current, larger pyramid but terminate at the original outer surface.

Seriously my friend, it's all a load of tripe created to make a few coincidences sound significant.

I'd go further, you send me a pic of any building you lie and I'll promise to find at least 5 interesting angles/numbers and facts related to any major event in history you choose.

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-21, 04:29 PM

I live in a building that's 10.66 m wide and 14.92 m long. And the ceiling is 3.14 m high. Betcha can't make anything of that! ;)

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-21, 04:38 PM

Built in a ratio of 7:5, it's clear it's someone who knows prime numbers who made it.
And the 3.14 m is clearly related to Pi.
But why the length to height ratio is 19:4, I have no idea.

Those two ratios are incidentally accurate to 3 mm, suggesting that they aren't random.

Noclevername

2011-Nov-21, 04:53 PM

1066: Batle of Hastings, Norman conquest of England
1492: The first transoceanic voyage of Columbus, Spanish Inquisition orders conversion of Jews and Muslims

3:14: The time I ate a late lunch yesterday.

So the connection should be obvious! Columbus was smuggling bagels from England! ;)

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 04:57 PM

Not respect it, but look at his theories and evidence and present other evidence that go against his.

But when people present evidence that show these people are talking meaningless nonsense, you just ignore it and go, "but look at this..."

What you should be doing is thinking, "hmmm... if that is wrong, then maybe some of these other things are less than fully accurate as well. I should go and investigate the history of the ..."

I'm sorry, but this latest stuff is so mind-numbingly dumb, you should be able to see right through it with about 2 seconds thought.

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 04:58 PM

Those two ratios are incidentally accurate to 3 mm, suggesting that they aren't random.

Spooky!

Noclevername

2011-Nov-21, 05:08 PM

Looking at his evidence and idea, is there any possibility?

No. And you toss around the word "evidence" but what your quoteable "scholars" present is not evidence in the scientific definition, it's hearsay and insinuation.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 05:09 PM

But when people present evidence that show these people are talking meaningless nonsense, you just ignore it and go, "but look at this..."

What you should be doing is thinking, "hmmm... if that is wrong, then maybe some of these other things are less than fully accurate as well. I should go and investigate the history of the ..."

I'm sorry, but this latest stuff is so mind-numbingly dumb, you should be able to see right through it with about 2 seconds thought.

Well unfortunatly the most I got Mathematics was a C in GCSE's, and that was nearly three years ago. Plus its 5 or 6 different theories so it makes it more harder trying debunk all of this. And I hate it when there is uncertainty in my mind.

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-21, 05:19 PM

Well unfortunatly the most I got Mathematics was a C in GCSE's, and that was nearly three years ago. Plus its 5 or 6 different theories so it makes it more harder trying debunk all of this. And I hate it when there is uncertainty in my mind.

So either trust the people who are educated enough to tell you it's utter drivel, or do some studying yourself so you can make up your own mind.

The stuff you keep dredging up is basically fiction written by people who aren't honest enough to admit it's fiction. It is fiction, and it should be treated as fiction. People don't lie awake at night worrying that Voldemort or Sauron are going to get them (on account of them being fictional characters) so why worry about ludicrous claims about polar shifts, Ancient Egyptians and Norwegian survival supplies?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 05:38 PM

So either trust the people who are educated enough to tell you it's utter drivel, or do some studying yourself so you can make up your own mind.

The stuff you keep dredging up is basically fiction written by people who aren't honest enough to admit it's fiction. It is fiction, and it should be treated as fiction. People don't lie awake at night worrying that Voldemort or Sauron are going to get them (on account of them being fictional characters) so why worry about ludicrous claims about polar shifts, Ancient Egyptians and Norwegian survival supplies?

Becuase the material goes so much deeper than just simple numbers. I mean you then get the whole secret codes in paintings and the apparent ancient scriptures that show it. I mean Gary Osborn does not make things any easier with his work on the whole thing - something about ancient traditions and some golden age - http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/ArcadianPaintings.pdf

And if you think I'm not taking anything you say on board, I will say that I'm 75% sure that Scott and Gary are talking nothing but bunk. But its the uncertainty of what they exactly mean in full and other factors that keep making me think about all of this. According to the book they are about to release, there is an undiscovered recovery fault that is talked about in Egyptian myth. What if they ind it, we are totally screwed. Plus I'm still not sure when the next shift in the Earth's axis will come, is it not until another century, thousand years or just around the corner?

Swift

2011-Nov-21, 05:45 PM

You may posts links as part of your evidence, but you may not just post a link. You have to give some summary as to what is at that link and why you think it is relevant to the topic. And if the link is to a large website, particularly that covers multiple topics, you need to say exactly what part of that website you think is relevant. Quoting (using the quote function) the highlights from the link is highly advisable.

I mean Gary Osborn does not make things any easier with his work on the whole thing - something about ancient traditions and some golden age - http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/ArcadianPaintings.pdf

A good example of what I was talking about in my warning that I quoted above.

I was about to infract you for another unrelated link. But when I looked through the document, there is actually stuff in there about the pyramids (so you dodged a bullet there). But it is considered proper behavior when you post such a link to mention what page (of a 27 page document) has the material related to the pyramids, and to summarize what is the important information about that reference.

I would like to see you do that for this reference. If you keep failing to do so, you will get infracted.

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 05:54 PM

Well unfortunatly the most I got Mathematics was a C in GCSE's, and that was nearly three years ago. Plus its 5 or 6 different theories so it makes it more harder trying debunk all of this. And I hate it when there is uncertainty in my mind.

OK. To go back to my post #29.

He says he is looking for a "natural" unit of measure that is not subject to the usual variations of traditional units based on the length of the King's arm, etc.

Firstly, he gives no reason or evidence why such a natural unit should exist. People have been quite happy with arbitrary (and changing) feet, bushels, and cubits for millennia. So just a slightly dumb and unsupported idea.

Secondly, he decides he will base this on the time it takes something to fall under normal gravity. No reason for choosing this and no evidence to support this idea. Another slightly dumb and unsupported idea.

Then he points out you can use a pendulum. But (surprise!) provides no evidence that the Egyptians had any idea of using pendulums (whereas, there is plenty of evidence they didn't). Yet another slightly dumb and unsupported idea.

Then he decides to use a pendulum swing of 2 seconds. Again no reason for that given (and, of course, no evidence). By itself, this would just be another slightly dumb and unsupported idea.

But then... and this is the one ... this is when my jaw hit the desk ... this is an example of the monumental stupidity of the guy's argument (or perhaps what he expects of the mugs he wants to sell his book to) ... the Egyptians didn't use seconds and even if they had, they wouldn't be exactly the same as the modern unit.

This is not a problem of maths, science or even detailed historical knowledge. A bit of common sense and a couple of seconds googling utterly debunks this.

So, just to be absolutely clear: he is claiming that the Egyptians based their measurements on a unit that didn't exist.

As I keep saying, I am just staggered that anyone can write that and ... [ok, potentially offensive comments redacted. Let's just say I have goldfish who wouldn't fall for that :)] (By the way, that is not a criticism of aliensdidit as I am quite sure he hasn't read that essay yet.)

He then goes on to derive even more idiocy from this but I gave up reading at that point. Clearly, after that, NOTHING he says can have any value. If he said the sky was blue I would have to go and check for myself.

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 05:55 PM

Plus I'm still not sure when the next shift in the Earth's axis will come, is it not until another century, thousand years or just around the corner?

As far as I know it is moving ever so, ever so slightly all the time. Big sudden shifts? Not so much.

Shaula

2011-Nov-21, 06:10 PM

No it is just numbers. They have found sets of numbers or patterns they have interpreted as significant. What they have not done, for example, is to look for equally statistically significant patterns that do NOT fit their hypothesis. Any data set you can and will find patterns in. They are not significant unless you prove that the configurations observed are statistically significant. They don't do this so their conclusions are completely worthless.

NEOWatcher

2011-Nov-21, 07:54 PM

Well its strikes me no one is bothering to look at things like the powerpoint presentation or the threads he is creating, becuase he provides evidence for that.
You can only go so far in those links. It's terrible.

I got to the one that said:

Around 12,500, towards the end of the last
Ice Age, all life on Earth was suddenly and
dramatically impacted when a massive comet
exploded over the North Atlantic ocean.
The effect of this cataclysmic event was truly
devastating, wiping out all manner of plant and
animal life – including humans - in the
northern hemisphere.

That is so blatently wrong and/or worded in a misleading way that there's no way to explain why it's wrong.

But the problem is that my knowledge of the topics covered is zilch.
That's the root of the problem. To show you why it is wrong, you need a variety scientific knowledge on all the factors that show it is wrong.
We can not just dump this knowledge into your head and have it magically understandable to you. Especially not through a forum like this.

So; We tell you they wrong, we give some explainations. They tell you they are right, they give some explainations. Without the scientific background how can you trust either side?

So the only way I can provide evidence is through links like that powerpoint presentation and the threads he created.
That's not evidence, that's only thier interpretation of evidence.

What do we know about earth catyclisms and do they collaborate with sudden shifts in the Earth's tilt? I think its suggesting that the Earth had a perfect balance and then for some reason it suddenly tilted, whether it was North and South is the question.
See; this is an example of a question that we can't answer because it's based on a false assumption.
How do they collaborate with sudden shifts? They don't. Sudden shifts do not exist. We know long term shifts exist, and we have that in the fossil, geological and astronomical record. We have found no evidence of a sudden shift.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-21, 08:32 PM

As far as I know it is moving ever so, ever so slightly all the time. Big sudden shifts? Not so much.

That brings up an important question. How accurate can we record cataclysmic events on Earth and the timeline. Becuase what Scott and Gary are saying is that the Egypts are recording something that happened to a much more advance society that was there before them. From actual Science what were the actual time line of catyclismic events that happened on Earth.

Remember, Scott and Gary in their new book are insisting that there is an undiscovered recovery vault based on the myths of Osiris (never read it myself). If they do find it then that would be a bit scary. In one of Scott's AboveTopSecret topics, there is a link to a paper that was written in the 1970s - http://www.scribd.com/doc/6467493/Mysteries-of-the-Pyramid-David-H-Lewis, that is part of some type of anthology that was lost that shows that the pyramids have much more rooms then the public are allowed to see - http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/home.php?cat=381. So could this so called undiscovered recovery vault be possible, that the Egyptians recorded some types of cataclysm?

Baring in mind that Scott argues that this was true and that shfits in the Earth's axis and other cataclysmic changes happened in periods like 10,550 BC and 9850 BC. His reasons for the Egyptionss surviving this are stated in the following

Oh but it did work. The Old Kingdom of Ancient Egypt collapsed (as did just about every other known Bronze Age III culture at that time, including the Akkadian Empire). Uniquely, however, ancient Egypt was somehow able to revive itself after this sudden and inexplicable collapse (most academics believe it to have been caused by sudden catastrophic climate change) and was reborn (after the First Intermediate Period) into the period known as the 'Middle Kingdom'. Now, I wonder how ancient Egypt was able to revivicate itself whilst most other cultures at the time could not and simply vanished. There are big clues at Saqqara, Meidum, Dahshur and Giza.

And if you are a people that can quarry millions of 2.5 ton limestone blocks out of a quarry and place them into a pyramid, why do you imagine it would be any more difficult for them to do the reverse? http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread769371/pg11

So the maths is wrong, but what about the idea about some cycle of destruction. I'm saying this becuase in the same topic this documantary was posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_48Rli4_Y. Barring minor differences it goes along the same route. It goes in the idea that the pyramids are enligned with the constellations (as well as other pyramids around the world), that they record previous cataclysms that go in cycles and are recorded in ancients texts and there was some more advance society thhen before the Egyptions that has disappeared (that is more connected with Gary's theories). It really goes back to the idea of catclysmic events, how much do we know about any cycles that might happen? How can we accuratly record these events and is there anything alarming from the data?

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-21, 08:46 PM

That brings up an important question. How accurate can we record cataclysmic events on Earth and the timeline. Becuase what Scott and Gary are saying is that the Egypts are recording something that happened to a much more advance society that was there before them. From actual Science what were the actual time line of catyclismic events that happened on Earth.

It's fantasy.

Remember, Scott and Gary in their new book are insisting that there is an undiscovered recovery vault based on the myths of Osiris (never read it myself). If they do find it then that would be a bit scary.

Yes, and if the Daleks invade (a serious risk if we are to believe the documentary known as Doctor Who) that would be scary too.

In one of Scott's AboveTopSecret topics, there is a link to a paper that was written in the 1970s - http://www.scribd.com/doc/6467493/Mysteries-of-the-Pyramid-David-H-Lewis, that is part of some type of anthology that was lost that shows that the pyramids have much more rooms then the public are allowed to see - http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/home.php?cat=381. So could this so called undiscovered recovery vault be possible, that the Egyptians recorded some types of cataclysm?

People love fantasising about pyramids and the Ancient Egyptians having secret knowledge. There was a film (called Star Gate) and no fewer than three spinoff series based on the idea. Pulp stories from the 1930s loved the idea, and so it continued with Doctor Who and computer adventure games and so on.

So the maths is wrong

Yes. That's an important word: Wrong.

Shaula

2011-Nov-21, 09:29 PM

I think the Harappans might want a word too. His arguments about cultures collapsing are either based on incomplete knowledge or misrepresentation. They were rising as the Akaddians fell. I think some of the early Mesoamerican cultures (pre-Olmec) were rising then too.

If there was a catastrophe (and I am pretty sure there was not) it wasn't that catastrophic. And if you look at the history of the area these rises and falls are very common. It is bad archaeology, bad science, bad logic and at best mediocre story telling.

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-21, 09:43 PM

How accurate can we record cataclysmic events on Earth and the timeline. Becuase what Scott and Gary are saying is that the Egypts are recording something that happened to a much more advance society that was there before them.

There is no credible evidence that there was any "advanced" society before the Egyptians.

Remember, Scott and Gary in their new book are insisting that there is an undiscovered recovery vault based on the myths of Osiris (never read it myself).

Their "insistence" is irrelevant.

...shows that the pyramids have much more rooms then the public are allowed to see.

What a load of (well, you know). There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE for the existence of "secret rooms"...at least not in the way you have presenting it.

So could this so called undiscovered recovery vault be possible, that the Egyptians recorded some types of cataclysm?

No

Baring in mind that Scott argues that this was true...

I imagine all pseudo-scientists think they are right...so what?

So the maths is wrong, but what about the idea about some cycle of destruction.

Just as wrong...

How can we accurately...

good question...don't know if it can be done, "accurately".

...is there anything alarming from the data?

No...

eburacum45

2011-Nov-21, 10:43 PM

Poussin's paintings are usually associated with the mystery of the Holy Grail and Rennes-le-Chateau. That is just as much nonsense as this pyramid connection. It seems that a painter like Poussin, who liked to play silly games with symbolism and classical allusions, can be used to provide 'evidence' for almost any given bizarre mythology.

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 11:12 PM

That brings up an important question. How accurate can we record cataclysmic events on Earth and the timeline.

Very well. Far better than, say.... the ancient Egyptians. We have records from civilizations from all over the world going back thousnads of years. We have archaeological and geological records. They had, what, exactly?

There are records of various local disasters throughout history. We haven't any information about global cataclysmic events since things like the meteor (and/or volcanic activity) which wiped out the dinosaurs. No humans were harmed in the making of this cataclysm.

Becuase what Scott and Gary are saying is that the Egypts are recording something that happened to a much more advance society that was there before them. From actual Science what were the actual time line of catyclismic events that happened on Earth.

The one major event the Egyptians would have known about (although not the cause or scale) was the Thera eruption. This did destroy the Minoan civilization. This is the basis for many stories, possibly including Atlantis. (Although not the looney-tunes modern versions.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption

But this was a volcano and therefore unpredictable. We cannot predict if and when something similar occur so, obviously, neither could the Egyptians.

Baring in mind that Scott argues that this was true

Him claiming the truth of stuff he made up is not evidence.

It goes in the idea that the pyramids are enligned with the constellations (as well as other pyramids around the world)

Yes, there may be some stellar alignments. This is probably a combination of the importance of the calendar to their society and the usual thing of associated gods with celestial objects.

that they record previous cataclysms that go in cycles

Fiction

and are recorded in ancients texts

Fiction

and there was some more advance society thhen before the Egyptions that has disappeared

Fiction

It really goes back to the idea of catclysmic events, how much do we know about any cycles that might happen? How can we accuratly record these events and is there anything alarming from the data?

If we don't know about them, then how could the Egyptians?

Strange

2011-Nov-21, 11:29 PM

People love fantasising about pyramids and the Ancient Egyptians having secret knowledge.

I think this goes back to before hieroglyphs were decoded. For a long time people didn't even think they were writing, as such, but rather a mysterious way of directly encoding knowledge. This led to the idea that the Egyptians must have had some mystical insights, etc. Of course, that all changed when it was realised that it is just a writing system like any other (simpler than many). But the myths live on...

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-22, 01:21 AM

Gillianren

2011-Nov-22, 01:22 AM

The thing is, these people rely on the fact that the average person doesn't know what they're talking about. People who do know that this is nonsense, so the less you know about Egyptology, the physics of pole shifts, and so forth, the more likely you are to believe them.

Peter B

2011-Nov-22, 01:36 AM

Aliensdidit said:
I manage to find a powerpoint presentation he created, that explains the mass extinction events like a comet impace in thee Ice Age and how that is connected with the Egyptions planned http://tinyurl.com/6q2m7s5

G’day Aliensdidit

Me again, back to analyse a document you’ve said people have ignored.

Now first up, you’re asking a lot for people to analyse a 193 page Powerpoint file. So I’m going to settle for looking at the first 10 slides, and you’ll start to see a bit of a trend…

Slide 4 has the following text:
Around 12,500 years ago, towards the end of the last Ice Age, all life on Earth was suddenly and dramatically impacted when a massive comet exploded over the North Atlantic ocean.

The effect of this cataclysmic event was truly devastating, wiping out all manner of plant and animal life – including humans - in the northern hemisphere.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2083758,00.html

Well, I read the article linked here, which is something you could have done for yourself. Now what the creator of this Powerpoint has done is put some text on the screen and a link below it, and at first glance most people would interpret that as meaning the words are a quote from the article.

Surprise, surprise, that’s not the case.

The statement on the Powerpoint slide is dramatic, and states the event as fact. The article on the Guardian’s website is almost as dramatic, but makes it clear that the claim is far from done deal.

Slide 6 has a quote from an apocryphal Old Testament book, the Book of Noah, with this quote:
And in those days, Noah saw the Earth had tilted and that its destruction was near.

I had a look online and found this translation:
And in those days Noah saw the earth that it had sunk down and its destruction was nigh.

See how “tilted” has become “sunk down”? If you’re promoting a theory that the Earth’s axial tilt has changed, then “sunk down” isn’t quite the term to use, is it? I’d be curious to hear if any experts on the book think “tilt” is an appropriate alternative translation.

Slide 7 quotes a couple of verses from the Book of Isaiah which sound suitably apocalyptic:
Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof…The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Stirring stuff. But remember that the Book of Isaiah is a book of prophecy. It’s talking about events in the future, not the past. Also, the part of the world where Isaiah lived is prone to earthquakes. Is there any reason to assume he’s talking about anything more than a very normal (if terrifying) earthquake?

And another thing, why quote verses 1 and 20, and skip the intervening 18 verses? As the Skeptics Annotated Bible suggests, you could interpret verses 5 to 11 as a prophecy of Prohibition in the USA.

Slide 8 quotes some verses from the Book of Revelation. Another book of prophecy, not history.

Slide 9 quotes part of the story of Deucalion and Pyrrha, a bit of Greek mythology I’m not that familiar with. But I note on reading the Wikipedia article about Deucalion that early Christian writers considered Deucalion was contemporary with Moses. Interestingly, this may provide some tiny fragment of reality, as some scholars think Moses and the Exodus can be tied to the eruption of Thera. That eruption would have caused a tsunami in ancient Greece, so perhaps the story of Deucalion grew out of a tsunami survivor’s story. But it dates to about 1600BC, which is way later than the Guardian article catastrophe.

But then, another point to consider is the story of Deucalion and Pyrrha repopulating the Earth by chucking rocks over their shoulders. Do you think there’s any reality to that part of the myth?

Slide 10 quotes the Oera Linda book. Well, I’d never heard of it before. But a book considered by the experts to be a late 19th century forgery doesn’t provide much credibility to anyone relying on it.

So in summary, a lot of quote mining of dubious relevance used to support a claim that’s far from certain.

Having said all that, there’s a theory going around that a lot of the flood myths of the Middle East and Europe may relate to a catastrophic flood of the Black Sea. The theory is that the Black Sea was previously a fresh water lake isolated from the Mediterranean Sea, and a proto-civilisation appeared on its shore. Then, as sea levels rose after the last Ice Age, salt water from the Mediterranean Sea broke through the Bosporus and flooded the Black Sea basin, drowning the civilisation and causing its inhabitants to flee with little more than a few cultural memories. It’s an intriguing theory, with some supporting evidence, but it dates to about 5600BC – thousands of years later than the disaster mentioned in the Guardian article. And it’s annoyingly local for people looking for global catastrophe.

As before, I’d appreciate it if you could respond to this post. I’d be even happier if you could show that you’ve done some research of your own out of it.

Swift

2011-Nov-22, 03:00 AM

A good example of what I was talking about in my warning that I quoted above.

I was about to infract you for another unrelated link. But when I looked through the document, there is actually stuff in there about the pyramids (so you dodged a bullet there). But it is considered proper behavior when you post such a link to mention what page (of a 27 page document) has the material related to the pyramids, and to summarize what is the important information about that reference.

I would like to see you do that for this reference. If you keep failing to do so, you will get infracted.

Ok well I want to repost this link to one of his articles, becuase it really shows (atleast for 2006/2007) what he fills is the cuase of these catclysmic events that have reacked the Earth in the past and supposdly will do in the future.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/CreightonS2.php?p=1

It also links to other articles he has written, but again I'm not sure if he is still toeing that line. But atleast he gives some kind of reason for what supposdly has happened.
You continue to ignore what I have told you to do. You ignored my request to summarize the PDF I mentioned in my earlier warning, quoted above, I've warned multiple times that you can't just post links but have to summarize them and state why they are relevant and yet you do it once again. Well this time you get an infraction.

Tensor

2011-Nov-22, 03:07 AM

Ok well I want to repost this link to one of his articles, becuase it really shows (atleast for 2006/2007) what he fills is the cuase of these catclysmic events that have reacked the Earth in the past and supposdly will do in the future.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/CreightonS2.php?p=1

It also links to other articles he has written, but again I'm not sure if he is still toeing that line. But atleast he gives some kind of reason for what supposdly has happened.

You want visual evidence? Here (http://www.nps.gov/cave/photosmultimedia/index.htm) is a link to pictures of Carlsbad Caverns in the Southwest United States. Look closely at those pictures. Note the long, slender stalactites and stalagmites. Visitors are forbidden to touch them due to their fragility. They will easily break (and discolor from skin oils). Some of those formation started forming ~800,000 years ago(the caves themselves started forming, as reefs ~250 million years ago). If there was any kind of cataclysmic shift of the Earth's axis ~12,000 years ago, those formations would be scattered, in pieces, all over the floor of the caverns.

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-22, 03:33 AM

vonmazur

2011-Nov-22, 04:53 AM

You want visual evidence? Here (http://www.nps.gov/cave/photosmultimedia/index.htm) is a link to pictures of Carlsbad Caverns in the Southwest United States. Look closely at those pictures. Note the long, slender stalactites and stalagmites. Visitors are forbidden to touch them due to their fragility. They will easily break (and discolor from skin oils). Some of those formation started forming ~800,000 years ago(the caves themselves started forming, as reefs ~250 million years ago). If there was any kind of cataclysmic shift of the Earth's axis ~12,000 years ago, those formations would be scattered, in pieces, all over the floor of the caverns.

Tensor, sort of reminds me of the "Blue Grotto" song that Al Jazzbeaux Collins used to run on his show...."Hang down from that stalagtite and sit on that stalagmite...." at least I learned the difference that way!! (WNEW AM in NYC, circa 1982 or so...)

I like your point, why are they still in place if the Earth has flipped as many times as the "Ancient Texts" say???

Dale

vonmazur

2011-Nov-22, 04:57 AM

Fellows: Graham Hancock may have a good point about the rain weathering on the sphinx, but then he goes off into gratuitous assertions without any evidence...I wish just one of these guys (Woo promoters) would study the rules of logic and debate, just a little...

Dale

Tensor

2011-Nov-22, 05:31 AM

...I wish just one of these guys (Woo promoters) would study the rules of logic and debate, just a little...

Dale

What? And lose all those sales? You've got to be kidding...

tusenfem

2011-Nov-22, 06:49 AM

It also links to [snip]

It links, and then links and link and you give more links and links that link and link.
Do you actually get paid by these woosies to make all these link to their sites?

Oh, and I have a bridge to sell you.

tnjrp

2011-Nov-22, 07:11 AM

Well, the "links presented by the way of evidence" system is apparently considered a good method of argumentation by some people. Some even link to their own texts with link to their own text which etc.

---

You can only go so far in those links. It's terrible.
[...]
That is so blatently wrong and/or worded in a misleading way that there's no way to explain why it's wrongHey, it's better than saying a polar space tornado did it...

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-22, 10:00 AM

My promises are worth something - I give you my word on that!

Strange

2011-Nov-22, 10:22 AM

Ok well I want to repost this link to one of his articles, becuase it ...

... is full of it.

Once again, you ignore all the counter-evidence and explanations and, most frustratingly, refuse to think for yourself.

Having taken a quick look at that nonsense: apart from the fact that it starts out as a bad SF story, then invents cyclical galactic explosion that has no basis in fact, he doesn't even know what the word "codex" means.

He is woefully ill informed, has a fertile (but chaotic) imagination, has no interest in research, and is out to make as much money as possible from gullible suckers.

His "evidence" consists of things like "So, let us assume ..." In other words, he is admitting it is all made up. No one can believe this badly written fiction, surely.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-22, 01:32 PM

Its much more compliated tthen it seems. I understand that a lot of his ideas sound kooky but wwhen I go on his AboveTopSecrets page he really gives out that "they know something they don't want us to know". Plus I'm still trying to get round what exactyl are all of his ideas, when the next event is suppose to happen. Also what if they do find that suppose recovery vault that is mentioned. I mean there are still may parts of the Giza Pyramids that have yet to be discovered. Like that tunnel that is blocked off by a pile of concrete. And when an article from the Independant talked about these tunnels, one of the comments (that got 32 likes) said this:

these tunnels seem to have got of media interest, but there is no mention of the large room that was discovered using radar, this room is situated between the sphynxs paws 20ft down, the Eygptions will not give permision for further investigation. I persnally do not believe that the egyptions built the three pyramids at gizza and their true age could be more like 10,000years old.

I mean the subject is uncomfortable as it is, but the loose ends and grey areas make it worse. I keep pondering on them. Don't get me wrong. The counterpoints that have beenn put on here are very relieving, but there stil is a lot of loese ends.

Strange

2011-Nov-22, 01:55 PM

Its much more compliated tthen it seems.

No. It's not. Really. It is very, very simple. The guy is either deluded or a liar. You choose.

he really gives out that "they know something they don't want us to know"

And that is believable because ... ?

And when an article from the Independant talked about these tunnels, one of the comments (that got 32 likes) said this:

Some anonymous idiot "believes" something and 32 other people "like" it - is that evidence to you?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-22, 02:10 PM

You don't really get me.

Swift

2011-Nov-22, 02:20 PM

<snip>
I understand that a lot of his ideas sound kooky but wwhen I go on his AboveTopSecrets page he really gives out that "they know something they don't want us to know".
Is there any independent sources of information, apart from what Scott Creighton says, that confirm even pieces of his evidence? (yes, I would like an answer to that question)

Because a reference that either you or he gives to another webpage of his stuff, does not count as additional evidence to support his ideas. He can not site himself as a reference to confirm his own ideas.

Mellow

2011-Nov-22, 02:33 PM

I would agree with Swift, and this is a good test for yourself. Go find some reputable information source that confirms anything Creighton says. I believe you will fail, but even if you do, it will be a much better use of your time than reading through all these inward facing links that take you back to the same 1-3 authors, all recycling and supporting each other.

You really will come out of that exercise feeling better.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-22, 03:01 PM

I know that most reputable archaeologists and scientist would refute most of what Creighton says. Its I guess the subject matter that makes me feel uncomfortable, I mean seeing his posts and ideas, they do give the feel of scientific study, but I'm not sure that he is following the Scientific method. What is he doing that just reaks of psuedoscience. What things like how the Giza Pyramids are based on the Orion belt or how maathematics show that they are some form of code about Earths past annd future that reek of bad science.

I still fill nervous, even whhen a lot of tthings seem bunk. I mean what if they find that undiscovered vault, what if there is proof that the Earth has had a cycle of disaster that has been recorded by the pyramids.
(P.S: I notice he links a lot to Grahahm Hancock (who is putting a forward in the book) and Robert Bauval, is it just basically in theeir territory or is a bit different. I heard that Robert Bauval's theories have some backing).

Shaula

2011-Nov-22, 04:53 PM

You can play the 'what if' game forever. What if we are invaded by aliens, what if we are eaten by space goats, what if, what if... The point of following a scientific approach is that it allows you to make some estimates about probability. There is no more evidence for any of his ideas than there is for the idea of the sky falling tomorrow.

There is no proof. Worry about it when it turns up. You will almost never manage to second guess what we will discover in the future and all you do is generate pointless fears in your own head if you try to second guess something unknowable like what random piece of data we will dig up tomorrow.

Swift

2011-Nov-22, 04:56 PM

I mean what if they find that undiscovered vault, what if there is proof that the Earth has had a cycle of disaster that has been recorded by the pyramids.
But that is the opposite of how science works. He is saying, I have this wild idea that would be demonstrated if the pyramids had a secret chamber and if the Earth had a cycle of disasters, and then he says the fact that there is no evidence of either just means my theory hasn't been proven yet. First, show me evidence of this cycle, and show me evidence of this chamber, then come up with your theory to explain those two.

You can't even say he is putting the cart in front of the horse. He has a cart, and he is hoping some day to find a horse.

NickW

2011-Nov-22, 05:42 PM

You can play the 'what if' game forever. What if we are invaded by aliens, what if we are eaten by space goats, what if, what if...

This reminded me of conversations with my dad growing up. I would ask "What if this were to happen?", his responses after awhile just became "What if?"

Stubby Boardman

2011-Nov-22, 06:02 PM

This reminded me of conversations with my dad growing up. I would ask "What if this were to happen?", his responses after awhile just became "What if?"

My favourite one from my own kid was "What happens if a pig drops a banana?" Really didn't know how to answer that one.

More on topic: Serious Egyptology offers all kinds of interesting questions and subjects for speculation, including basic questions like "Who built the Sphinx and whose face is on it?" I don't know why people have to go into bizarro stuff when there is so much real work that is of interest.

NickW

2011-Nov-22, 06:23 PM

My favourite one from my own kid was "What happens if a pig drops a banana?" Really didn't know how to answer that one.

LOL, sounds like something my kids would say....

I can see the reasoning behind why my dad would answer the question like that(other than not wanting to answer at the time, or he didn't know himself). It made me start thinking before I asked the question. After I started doing that, my questions became more pertinent to the discussion, then me just throwing out random what-ifs. I think that is what some of the posters here are trying to get aliensdidit to understand.

CJSF

2011-Nov-22, 06:36 PM

iquestor

2011-Nov-22, 06:37 PM

I have read Graham Hancock's book, The Mystery Of the Spinx ( I think) that argues that the pyramid and sphinx at Giza are 10,500 years old, and cite weathering of the Sphinx and alignments of constellations 10,500 years ago as evidence, or outright proof. It is an interesting read however, like all of his books, should be read for enjoyment only, as there is no real scientific research supporting the conclusions. I think most of the conclusions have been debunked or there are too many alternate explanations for the findings. The book also talks about a 'room' that was possibly identified buried beneath the Sphinx's paws that might hold some kind of library or something.... however it might be a natural cavern or an anomoly of the equipment reading. I would think if there were strong evidence of something there Egypt would either allow excavation or do it themselves, as they get a lot of state income on these sorts of activities.

I also watched the Discovery Channel UPUAT (spelling) robot that was sent up the ventilation shaft and at the end the dead end was at a stone portal with copper rods sticking out, and the laser showed there was empty space immediately behind it, however more than that would have to wait for the next expedition. I never heard if there was a followup to find out what (if anything) was there.

edit: here (http://cheops.org/)is the web address for the UPUAT project for yourbrowsing pleasure. I guess they never did find out what was behind the polished marble wall.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-22, 07:33 PM

I watched a special about the Pyramids the other day, and here are a few things to consider.

1. They've used ground-penetrating radar on the Sphinx. It's solid.

2. Which Giza pyramids? There are dozens of them of varying ages and methods of construction. Does he take that into consideration?

3. It's hardly as though the pyramids have remained untouched since their construction. In fact, the special mentioned that the later ones are almost indistinguishable, because instead of stone, they were mud brick clad in limestone. And when people stole the limestone for other constructions, the mud brick was exposed to the weather, which hasn't been kind to it over the last couple of thousand years. So there is no reason to assume that everything in any given pyramid is original to its construction. Including tunnels, which in many cases were dug by tomb raiders.

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-22, 08:35 PM

You can't even say he is putting the cart in front of the horse. He has a cart, and he is hoping some day to find a horse.
Actually he doesn't even have a cart but he is hoping other people will give him a horse to put in front of the cart if only he claims loudly enough that he has one.

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-22, 08:38 PM

2. Which Gaza pyramids?
I'd ask the same question but from a different perspective since I think the big ones are all at Giza. :)

Swift

2011-Nov-22, 09:08 PM

I just have to question the motives of a user as seemingly pig-headed as this whose name, after all, is "aliens did it." I've been lurking around this thread since its inception, and am finding it almost insulting how rational, positive answers to the OP have been blithely shunted aside. I am also no longer buying into this "but I have anxiety issues" song and dance. It was interesting at first, now it just bugs me. Everyone who has taken the time to rationally and politely explain things in this thread, thank you. I've managed to learn something despite this thread's milleu.

CJSF
I have already warned in this thread that I did not want to see any in-thread comments about aliensdidit's posting style, motives, etc. The moderators are well aware of the issues and are working hard to deal with them. I'm feeling nice and will not infract, this time, but my patience, with both aliensdidit and with comments like this, is getting very thin.

Gillianren

2011-Nov-22, 09:27 PM

I'd ask the same question but from a different perspective since I think the big ones are all at Giza. :)

Yes, thank you. Fixing that now . . . .

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-22, 10:34 PM

I'm just going to start of (and risk getting an infraction) with this. I suprisingly managed to find a draft copy of the actual book that Creighton and Osborn are releasing:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/70538914/Giza-Prophecy

If it seems like I'm just going to post it here and make no page references or summary please note that the index page gives no indication of which chapter starts on which page. To top it off the search function has been disabled so it impossible to find key words. But I have had a quick glance at it and it does seem to be a rehash of all the other webpages, essays and powerpoint presentations that both Gary and Scott have placed on various websites. But still its significant that I have managed to find the book that has started this whole topic. How close it will be to the final version, I'm not sure. I will say that the idea of the undiscovered recovery vault and its link with the myth of Osiris is on Chapter 10- which is on page 252 and more importantly on chapter 11 - which starts on page 287 and links to the paragraph below

I guess what keeps making me ponder is that Scott never explicitly says what will be the next date of a worldwide event based on the pyramids. One post saw him think 2014 could be the next one. Another he states is 2500 and another is 3180, which makes it agonizing, just come up with a certtain date and let it be other with.

Since the consensus on here is that he does nothing more then psuedoscience, is it very common for people in psudeoscience to have a deep mistrust of the mainstream academia and institutions? Only is that Creighton seems to have a deep distrust of one of the most well known Egyptologists - Zahi Hawass (although he does have aconviction and a habit of shady dealings).
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread713273/pg1 - In this topic he goes into one of his many ideas that archaeologists such as Hawass are intentionally misleading the public to try and keep the status quo on the idea that the pyramids were built for the dead but were built for what Scott argues are much different purposes such as recovery vaults. Then in this topic - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread345454/pg1 he goes one step further and argues that people like Hawass are deliberately holding back information, becuase in that topic he discusses something called "Hawass wall" and it directly goes into chapter 11 of his book about the whole idea of there being a recovery vault. I think he is arguing that the suppose secret recovery vault is located there and it goes into this idea thay mainstream archaelogists either are ignorant of it or are actually covering it up. But these two links do seem to indicate that Creighton has a deep distrust of academia and/or thinks they are ignorant or outright lying to the public. Is this common with authors like him?

Gillianren

2011-Nov-22, 10:40 PM

Yes, it's common, because they distrust anyone who can show that they're wrong and shouldn't be making money for their books. There's also a certain arrogance in the assumption that only they know the Truth (TM). Remember, they're counting on the fact that you don't know the mainstream position. If you know that there are dozens of pyramids in Egypt, what does that do to their statement that "the pyramids" line up with anything?

Swift

2011-Nov-22, 10:43 PM

I'm just going to start of (and risk getting an infraction) with this.
Why would that get you an infraction? (that is a rhetoric question, don't answer it) That is exactly what I've been asking you to do: you gave a detailed explanation of the link, why it is relevant to the discussion, and referenced specific pages and chapters.

Van Rijn

2011-Nov-22, 11:39 PM

Peter B

2011-Nov-23, 12:58 AM

I guess what keeps making me ponder is that Scott never explicitly says what will be the next date of a worldwide event based on the pyramids. One post saw him think 2014 could be the next one. Another he states is 2500 and another is 3180, which makes it agonizing, just come up with a certtain date and let it be other with.
I can think of a couple of reasons. The first one should be obvious: if he thinks disaster will strike in 2014, what's he doing trying to make money? The second one is that uncertainty is good for business, especially if the nominated date is way beyond the time he'd expect to be alive. What does it matter to him if disaster strikes in 2500 or 3180? More importantly, what does it matter to you if disaster strikes in either of those years?

Since the consensus on here is that he does nothing more then psuedoscience, is it very common for people in psudeoscience to have a deep mistrust of the mainstream academia and institutions?
As others have said, yes. I think it's a combination of disliking experts who know their evidence is laughable, and envy of the knowledge they have.

Only is that Creighton seems to have a deep distrust of one of the most well known Egyptologists - Zahi Hawass...
Hawass is highly knowledgeable about this field. If Creighton's arguments are rubbish, then it would be easy for Hawass to debunk them. Result: drop in sales. The logical alternatives are to either steer as far clear of Hawass as possible, or attempt to discredit him.

...(although he does have aconviction...
The conviction related to a commercial decision about the contract for a gift shop, and anyway the conviction appears to have been overturned. This has no bearing on his credibility as an Egyptologist.

...and a habit of shady dealings).
From what I've read, his problems seem to be tied to either his relationship to the Mubarak regime in Egypt, his disdain for poor quality archaeology, his distrust of DNA testing and his dislike of Israel. As with his overturned conviction, none of these seem to have anything to do with his credibility as an Egyptologist.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread713273/pg1 - In this topic he goes into one of his many ideas that archaeologists such as Hawass are intentionally misleading the public to try and keep the status quo on the idea that the pyramids were built for the dead but were built for what Scott argues are much different purposes such as recovery vaults.

Then in this topic - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread345454/pg1 he goes one step further and argues that people like Hawass are deliberately holding back information, becuase in that topic he discusses something called "Hawass wall" and it directly goes into chapter 11 of his book about the whole idea of there being a recovery vault. I think he is arguing that the suppose secret recovery vault is located there and it goes into this idea thay mainstream archaelogists either are ignorant of it or are actually covering it up. But these two links do seem to indicate that Creighton has a deep distrust of academia and/or thinks they are ignorant or outright lying to the public. Is this common with authors like him?
Here's some questions to consider:

Does Creighton actually present any evidence that the archaeologists are ignorant or lying? Or is it that they must be for his theories to be right? "I have no evidence for my theory, but if it's right they must be ignorant or lying" isn't a very strong argument, is it?

Given the sheer number of pyramids - more than 100 in Egypt and more than 200 in Sudan - do you think they're all "recovery vaults"?

Has Creighton demonstrated his theories on a random selection of pyramids?

Keep in mind also that a lot of these "recovery vault" theories involve counting courses of stone. How does this work with the dozens of mud brick pyramids in Egypt and Sudan?

= = = =

Edit To Add: Here's a thought...You live in the UK, don't you? How about going down to London and spending a couple of days wandering around the British Museum, specifically the Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan.

Go to a second hand book shop and buy a couple of general history books about Egypt. It's fascinating history, whether you're looking at the pyramid building period of the 26th century BC, the New Kingdom of the 16th to the 14th century BC, the Libyan Pharaohs of the 10th to the 8th centuries BC, the Nubian Pharaohs of the 8th and 7th centuries BC, or the final native dynasties of the 7th to 4th centuries BC.

shriram

2011-Nov-23, 04:32 AM

More on topic: Serious Egyptology offers all kinds of interesting questions and subjects for speculation, including basic questions like "Who built the Sphinx and whose face is on it?" I don't know why people have to go into bizarro stuff when there is so much real work that is of interest.

Exactly what came to my mind too!

HenrikOlsen

2011-Nov-23, 04:45 AM

Abaddon

2011-Nov-23, 05:41 AM

My favourite one from my own kid was "What happens if a pig drops a banana?" Really didn't know how to answer that one.
I sympathise. My own come up with some cracking queries also. Being a parent requires thinking on your feet.

More on topic: Serious Egyptology offers all kinds of interesting questions and subjects for speculation, including basic questions like "Who built the Sphinx and whose face is on it?" I don't know why people have to go into bizarro stuff when there is so much real work that is of interest.

IIRC the current head is disproportionately small as it was recarved at a later date. We may well never know who the original head belonged to, but the current one is likely Tut. I could well be wrong though.

Shaula

2011-Nov-23, 06:31 AM

Hawass is highly knowledgeable about this field. If Creighton's arguments are rubbish, then it would be easy for Hawass to debunk them. Result: drop in sales. The logical alternatives are to either steer as far clear of Hawass as possible, or attempt to discredit him.
He is also quite patriotic as I understand it and sensitive to the local perception that the west has a habit of plundering Egypt's culture (that we turn up, find something, make huge fuss, ignore any local contribution). That can make him hard to work with and quite protective of his domain. This is based on what I have read about him - that is all, it is not based on personal knowledge. None of which changes the fact that he knows his stuff and has the endearing habit of giving a very brusque reception to people who turn up with shovels and a wild-eyed expression demanding he let them dig up the secret alien chambers in the pyramids...

RobA

2011-Nov-23, 06:37 AM

I finally got to see the pyramids and the sphinx in January this year. I knew they were big, but even so, the sheer size of the things still blew me away. I'd also always imagined that the sphinx was "built" the same way that the pyramids were - but turns out it was actually carved from a solid rock (Imagine a little Uluru - aka "Ayer's Rock" if you prefer ;) - on the desert plain). The carving was done to make the temple (that sits at the front paws). The "bricks" you can see around the base were added at various times throughout history to counter the weathering.

The guide said that there's some dispute whether the face is IIRC Khofu or his son (I'll check when I get home from work).

JayUtah

2011-Nov-23, 01:46 PM

I finally got to see the pyramids and the sphinx in January this year.

Did you go across the street and get a pizza at Pizza Hut? (Actually Cristo's is the place to eat in that neighborhood.)

I knew they were big, but even so, the sheer size of the things still blew me away.

Did you get to go down inside them? When you feel how deep the structures go underground, you have an even more renewed concept of their bulk.

I'd also always imagined that the sphinx was "built" the same way that the pyramids were...

And the Sphinx Temple represents yet a third style of Egyptian building.

Stubby Boardman

2011-Nov-23, 01:49 PM

See how much fun actual layman Egyptology is? :)

About Hawass: He seems to absolutely adore being on American television. I don't know why he'd want to cover up a big bizarre truth in favour of something dull like tombs. Can you imagine how much Discovery Channel or National Geographic would pay for the rights to open a secret alien chamber or whatever?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-23, 02:47 PM

CJSF

2011-Nov-23, 03:00 PM

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-23, 03:12 PM

Swift

2011-Nov-23, 03:28 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that he claims that the shift itself did not in itself what caused the damaged. But argued that it was the climate change, sudden increases in volcanic and earthquake activity that wiped most societies out except for the Egyptions who survived. Its somewhere in the book, not sure in chapters, 9 10 or 11 (or maybe an earlier chapter).
That is even more absurd. We have climate records (from ice cores) going back hundreds of thousands of years and have other records (from samples like cores from bogs) that cover thousands of years. If there were increases in volcanic activity, enough to change the climate, these would be recorded in these cores, both as ash and as changes in atmospheric composition. There is zero evidence for such things. Geologists can also find evidence of ancient earthquakes and esimate dates when they happened. If there were increases in earthquake activity in some short period of time, that would have been discovered too.

I ask again, any evidence to support any of his key points that is not from him or his co-author, but from an independent source? And yes, I would like an answer to that question.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-23, 03:54 PM

The only thing I could bring up is too search the two scientists he brings us that he argues backs up his evidence.

Peter B

2011-Nov-23, 04:34 PM

Hi...

Well its been quite a journey and I know that I would be asking too much for people to read all of it. But from my skimming of the book, chapter 9 (which starts on page 238) is where he actually starts going on how the Egyptians knew about the sudden polar axis shift. Athlough there is a summary of the chapter on page 249. I think everything before is the whole mathematics and how secret societies like the freemasons somehow know this knowledge.
Okay, Aliensdidit, I skimmed chapter 9 too. Three things stood out for me - three names: Joscelyn Godwin, Flavio Barbiero and George Dodwell. They're all referred to in that chapter.

Now this is the last time I'm going to do your research for you. I checked out who these people were and compared their qualifications to what they're credited with. Godwin is a composer and musicologist, and he's commenting on scientific matters. Barbiero is a retired admiral with books published about the Bible, and he's commenting on scientific matters. Dodwell was a scientist, but one who used his scientific research to bolster his creationist religious beliefs. In other words, these are people talking about topics outside their expertise.

Here are two direct questions for you:

When the mainstream view on some discipline is challenged by someone with no professional expertise in that discipline, who do you think is more likely to be right?

When authors bolster their case by referring to claims made by people who aren't experts in the discipline related to those claims, how strong do you think their case is?

I know it looks like I'm beating a dead horse...
Yes, you're beating a dead horse.

...but I still get that worry feeling in my head, it keeps saying "What if they were right?".
That's why you need to go see a counsellor at your university.

If all the evidence we provide won't convince you these claims are rubbish, what would convince you?

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-23, 04:44 PM

Peter B

2011-Nov-23, 04:53 PM

90% of me says its all bull, but there is always that 10% that drags me back becuase it sticks in my mind. I guess I would need some sort of magical billboard to flah up in the sky saying "Its wrong" to eliminate the 10% that sticks in my mind.
No, you don't need a magical billboard. You need to go see a counsellor at your university. Please.

moog

2011-Nov-23, 05:05 PM

The only thing I could bring up is too search the two scientists he brings us that he argues backs up his evidence.

That's a big red flag to look for.
When 'scientists' are mentioned to support an idea (instead of some verifiable evidence), check their credentials. If they have none or it is in an entirely unrelated field the idea is worthless.

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-23, 05:32 PM

90% of me says its all bull, but there is always that 10% that drags me back becuase it sticks in my mind. I guess I would need some sort of magical billboard to flah up in the sky saying "Its wrong" to eliminate the 10% that sticks in my mind.

You have chosen to believe these "things" despite evidence and assurances to the contrary that the good folks of this board have taken the time to post, so I don't see how we can be of any more "help".

R.A.F.

2011-Nov-23, 05:36 PM

The only thing I could bring up is too search the two scientists he brings us that he argues backs up his evidence.

You came to this board. You are making outrageous claims not supported by evidence, and you want us to do your "homework" for you?

Since I KNOW their arguments are not credible, why would I investigate, further??

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-23, 05:47 PM

Useful tip, aliensdidit: A man (or woman) saying, "I have evidence!" is not the same as a man (or woman) presenting evidence.

Swift

2011-Nov-23, 05:49 PM

It seems to me that this thread has run its course, and it is turning into a counseling session for aliensdidit, which is not a good use of CT and probably not a good use of BAUT. I am leaving it open for the moment, mostly so aliensdidit can address any open, direct questions, such as the two below from Peter B. Anyone else with final thoughts, might want to get them in now.

Here are two direct questions for you:

When the mainstream view on some discipline is challenged by someone with no professional expertise in that discipline, who do you think is more likely to be right?

When authors bolster their case by referring to claims made by people who aren't experts in the discipline related to those claims, how strong do you think their case is?

Paul Beardsley

2011-Nov-23, 05:59 PM

Okay, Aliensdidit, I skimmed chapter 9 too. Three things stood out for me - three names: Joscelyn Godwin

Hitler's law!

Sorry, but the thread is about to close...

Seriously, I'd like to praise the patience of all those who persisted in delivering intelligent and helpful answers to aliensdidit's questions. A pretty thankless task, as it turned out.

Luckmeister

2011-Nov-23, 06:13 PM

Aliensdidit, here's a simple suggestion: Google the name of each of the so-called experts referred to on the woo sites along with the word "credibility." This should provide links to help you judge the believability of that person.

Astronot

2011-Nov-23, 07:31 PM

Did you go across the street and get a pizza at Pizza Hut? (Actually Cristo's is the place to eat in that neighborhood.)

Did you get to go down inside them? When you feel how deep the structures go underground, you have an even more renewed concept of their bulk.

And the Sphinx Temple represents yet a third style of Egyptian building.

I was inside the pyramid in the early 80's. It certainly added to the experience of the enormity of the beast. It just seems to go on forever and the lack of oxygen in the passage just makes it seem deeper, even a bit scary. I went as far through the passage as was allowed but I don't recollect how far that really was.

There was no Pizza Hut in the neighborhood back then. My recollections of the area are mostly of buildings that looked either half constructed, half destructed or half ready to tumble down. There were a few KFC's in Cairo at the time. They were far more expensive than the local fast food stands and as a budget traveler, it was best to take in the local fare. As much as I love fried chicken, KFC is not comfort food for me when traveling. Now that McDonald's in Paris......

JayUtah

2011-Nov-23, 08:02 PM

Since the consensus on here is that he does nothing more then psuedoscience, is it very common for people in psudeoscience to have a deep mistrust of the mainstream academia and institutions?

Very much so. Pseudoscience sets itself up specifically to oppose mainstream science, and as a shortcut for people who have interest in a field, but no expertise, to achieve some sort of notoriety. Pseudoscientists typically both envy and resent those who garner attention by way of legitimate expertise.

Only is that Creighton seems to have a deep distrust of one of the most well known Egyptologists - Zahi Hawass...

The deepest distrust is reserved for the most prominent figures because they personify the idea of the mainstream. It wouldn't matter who was Minister of Antiquities that year, the pseudoscientists would name him as the personal enemy of the truth. Hawass represents all of Egyptology the way Neil Armstrong represents all astronauts.

(although he does have aconviction and a habit of shady dealings).

This is not surprising in Egyptian culture. No matter what side of the ruling regime you're on, influence-peddling is an accepted part of the culture and how business is done there. If you want to set up a shop in a museum, you had better offer bakshish to the museum curator or you won't even be considered; it would be an insult to omit bakshish. And if you lose the bid, you can always pay a bakshish to your local magistrate to bring charges for some trumped-up aspect of the deal. Most Westerners don't understand the bakshish culture, but they shouldn't judge it -- it's older than ours. I use the native word because there is no single English word that covers the nuance of meanings. It means simultaneously, "bribe," "tip," and "handout." The nuance that is relevant to any particular situation depends heavily on interpretation and requires spending some time there to get used to how things work.

It would be very easy for an unscrupulous author to point to activities that are very traditional and very well accepted in Egyptian and Arabic culture and spin them to appear unscrupulous and "shady" by Western standards.

In this topic he goes into one of his many ideas that archaeologists such as Hawass are intentionally misleading the public to try and keep the status quo on the idea that the pyramids were built for the dead...

Yes, that's the central tenet of pseudoscience: that the mainstream has a vested interested only in maintaining the status quo for the prominence it affords them, not because the status quo is best supported by evidence.

Keep in mind that in every debate one proponent accuses the other of misrepresenting the facts. You can't necessarily draw any conclusions based solely on the fact that two people see things differently or otherwise disagree. But for pseudoscientists the debate is always part of a larger David and Goliath struggle, and that is the dynamic that tends to shape the argument. Pseudoscientists want to see themselves as individual mavericks. Pseudoscience is more about contributing to the proponent's ego than in contributing to the body of human knowledge. That's why they don't want to side with the mainstream and be just another face in the crowd.

... [he] argues that people like Hawass are deliberately holding back information

Right, more of the same. Pseudoscientists typically claim that the evidence that would vindicate them is being controlled and suppressed by their opponents. This simultaneously keeps the mainstream in the role of evil nemesis and also excuses the pseudoscientist's apparent lack of credibility by trying to blame it on his opponent.

The rhetoric of pseudoscience is less about what is correct or incorrect and more about who is good or evil.

Is this common with authors like him?

Yes.

aliensdidit

2011-Nov-24, 12:18 PM

Okay, Aliensdidit, I skimmed chapter 9 too. Three things stood out for me - three names: Joscelyn Godwin, Flavio Barbiero and George Dodwell. They're all referred to in that chapter.

Now this is the last time I'm going to do your research for you. I checked out who these people were and compared their qualifications to what they're credited with. Godwin is a composer and musicologist, and he's commenting on scientific matters. Barbiero is a retired admiral with books published about the Bible, and he's commenting on scientific matters. Dodwell was a scientist, but one who used his scientific research to bolster his creationist religious beliefs. In other words, these are people talking about topics outside their expertise.

Here are two direct questions for you:

When the mainstream view on some discipline is challenged by someone with no professional expertise in that discipline, who do you think is more likely to be right?

When authors bolster their case by referring to claims made by people who aren't experts in the discipline related to those claims, how strong do you think their case is?

Yes, you're beating a dead horse.

That's why you need to go see a counsellor at your university.

If all the evidence we provide won't convince you these claims are rubbish, what would convince you?

I know, they are most likely to be wrong or at least give distorted evidence.

To be honest I'm done with this, there are other things that are playing on my mind.