Am I wasting my time? Yahoo Group nonresponses.

[Buttercup]

I've mentioned before that I own/moderate a Yahoo Group devoted to 18th Century philosophy and history. Have had this group since 2002. Took a 2.5-year break from it early 2007 to late 2009 (roughly). My original intent was for shared information and discussion. We've had some of that, but 98% of the posting is mine -- of various material.

I posted quite energetically throughout most of 2010, with a recent 1.5 month holiday break. There were a handful of responses in 2010. But I was surprised when no one replied to the holiday greeting. :( That surprised me, as all throughout the year I'd shared a lot of diverse subject matter from maybe a dozen sources. Basically I'm very dissatisfied with lack of member participation.

What keeps me posting? I like sharing this stuff, especially from rare and/or out-of-print sources. I have nearly 90 members. If someone can truly learn from what I'm reading, that's a reward.

But overall I wonder if I'm not wasting my time. :-\ With very little feedback, I have no idea how many of 90 members ARE reading consistently. And yes, I often feel taken for granted (though that's my problem).

Would you continue on with this endeavor if you were me? And if yes, why?

[Fazor]

I'm just in the start-up stages of mine, but the blog site I use tracks views. I get a consistent 3 per day, of which I think at least 2 are just search-engine bots. So I know what you mean about the 'Is this worth it' feeling. I enjoy writing; doesn't matter if anyone reads it. At least, at this point I enjoy it.

That'd be my advise to you; if you enjoy doing the research and writing and sharing the information, just do it for yourself and don't worry about it. If you're looking for more of an active discussion, then maybe you need to think about getting the name out somehow or joining forces with another related space. *shrug*

[Jim]

I'm sure there are some Yahoo groups that are extremely active, but others just are not. And I don't blame the group.

I used to visit a Colorado soccer board every day, to discuss referee stuff mostly, but also general soccer topics. It was a fairly active site, with some very lengthy threads. Then it lost its sponsorship and moved to Yahoo.

The membership declined and with it the activity level. It's been months since I was last there, but I didn't miss much.

Maybe it's got something to do with how tedious it is to sign in to the group. Even if I've logged in to Yahoo, I have to log in again to access the group board. BAUT remembers me. The old Colorado board remembered me. Yahoo, not so much.

[Gillianren]

Rotten Tomatoes tracks how many people look at your page, but I don't really pay much attention to it. The question I ask myself is, am I writing for other people or for me? Since I'm writing for me, it doesn't really matter.

[geonuc]

I can see how it could get discouraging, though.

Hello! Is this thing on?

[Buttercup]

Thank you for the replies so far. :)

A lot of it IS doing for myself as well; helps to pass some free time (I have too much free time!), and I do know at least 5 people read often (from comments mid-2010). It is pleasurable. Plus it helps keep my writing skills sharpened.

Still would like a bit more conversation and feedback, but the situation is what it is.

[Ara Pacis]

Can you post a poll on yahoo groups? Yahoo in general is losing members as they mess up the things that used to work to make them shinier or just close down some others. I would guess that some members don't go there anymore because they don't go anywhere on yahoo anymore. I'd recommend asking them and then starting a group or forum on some other site and leave a note telling them where to go.

[Buttercup]

Can you post a poll on yahoo groups?

Yes. But then there's the matter of if they'll answer/vote or not.


Yahoo in general is losing members as they mess up the things that used to work to make them shinier or just close down some others.

I suppose. :( Yahoo Groups can be a bit glitchy in the busier forums, but mine is slower and seldom experiences troubles. And the Archive feature *now* works like a charm (as compared to previous years, when that feature was useless).


I would guess that some members don't go there anymore because they don't go anywhere on yahoo anymore.

But many seem "set" to receive individual e-mails from the Group, or bulk mail. Unless they don't use Yahoo mail anymore.


I'd recommend asking them and then starting a group or forum on some other site and leave a note telling them where to go.

Well...I'm reluctant to do that, only because I've got nearly 1500 (?) messages in Archives. Probably 98% of those are mine, and I've put time/energy into it.

But thanks for the suggestions and feedback. :)

[rommel543]

Buttercup, all I can say is that a true writer writes for the enjoyment of writing and sharing their thoughts with others. It's the editors and print companies that worry about how many books it sells. So if you doing this for yourself, why worry about how many hits or responses you get. Anyone getting benefit from this other than you, will be simply additional enjoyment. When you start being concerned what others want, you start tailoring your content for others, not yourself and it no longer is enjoyable. Post away, ignore the rest.

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, all I can say is that a true writer writes for the enjoyment of writing and sharing their thoughts with others. It's the editors and print companies that worry about how many books it sells. So if you doing this for yourself, why worry about how many hits or responses you get. Anyone getting benefit from this other than you, will be simply additional enjoyment. When you start being concerned what others want, you start tailoring your content for others, not yourself and it no longer is enjoyable. Post away, ignore the rest.

Agreed. :) I do hope for a bit more input/feedback from my subscribers, but if it's to be this way (has been for quite a while) then I'm content enough to continue. It seems a handful of people are regularly reading and learning along with me. I really prize this material, Enlightenment philosophy and values. The personalities and politics of the time are intriguing too; all of it.

[Ara Pacis]

Buttercup, all I can say is that a true writer writes for the enjoyment of writing and sharing their thoughts with others. It's the editors and print companies that worry about how many books it sells. So if you doing this for yourself, why worry about how many hits or responses you get. Anyone getting benefit from this other than you, will be simply additional enjoyment. When you start being concerned what others want, you start tailoring your content for others, not yourself and it no longer is enjoyable. Post away, ignore the rest.

Spend a lot of time talking to trees or brick walls? Writing is a form of communication and communication requires a receiver, or at least the hope of one. It's one of the reasons that the word intercourse has that meaning (among others). Anything else is merely practice, or fear of being heard -the written equivalent of a vocal mumble.

Buttercup, I would seriously consider abandoning Yahoo! (like most other people) and use a blog format. Save your old posts to your harddrive and look at reposting them. On some of the popular blog communities you are likely to get a more active community. In a world of Blu-Ray discs, it's like you're still using Betamax.

[Buttercup]

Spend a lot of time talking to trees or brick walls? Writing is a form of communication and communication requires a receiver, or at least the hope of one. It's one of the reasons that the word intercourse has that meaning (among others). Anything else is merely practice, or fear of being heard -the written equivalent of a vocal mumble.

Buttercup, I would seriously consider abandoning Yahoo! (like most other people) and use a blog format. Save your old posts to your harddrive and look at reposting them. On some of the popular blog communities you are likely to get a more active community. In a world of Blu-Ray discs, it's like you're still using Betamax.

I could create an E-Blogger account (have used it before) and begin posting material to it. Complicating my current situation, however, are serial threads; I have "theme subjects" which can contain upwards of 40 to 60 posts total. Those would have to be finished (I'm mid-way through one) before going entirely over to a blog. Unfortunately E-Blogger only Archives by month of post date. And no "search" feature last I knew. Will keep my options open however.

Basically I'm probably going to have to "bite it" regarding my intense interest in the 18th Century; frankly most people just don't share it. :( Likely my readers are curious and want to learn, but can't or won't engage in actual conversation for whatever reason (typing speed, time constraints, etc.). And I've resigned myself to people in real life not sharing an interest either. Occasionally I can get a bit of conversation rolling in that regard, but I'm not the sort to try and coerce people into taking an interest. I have considered starting a local study group...but I'm no expert, would need a meeting place (our home is not an option - husband wouldn't have it), would dread being made to "referee" potential contentious debates as to Voltaire's or Rousseau's or Diderot's religious or political opinions (and reactions to those)...yikes. :shifty:

Considering how alone I've felt in this for so long (going on 8 years), I must really love the 18th Century. Because I do. :)

[Ara Pacis]

Have you tried the steam-punk set?

[Gillianren]

Spend a lot of time talking to trees or brick walls? Writing is a form of communication and communication requires a receiver, or at least the hope of one. It's one of the reasons that the word intercourse has that meaning (among others). Anything else is merely practice, or fear of being heard -the written equivalent of a vocal mumble.

I think a true writer writes because they have to, not because they hope anyone will read it. The words just keep coming even if you know you're just pouring them into the void. Yes, it helps to think that you aren't, but it is not the end goal of those who love the written word.

[Buttercup]

Have you tried the steam-punk set?

I don't know what that is. ??

[grapes]

Google "steam punk"! :) Hurry!

[Buttercup]

Google "steam punk"! :) Hurry!

Okay! :confused: :lol:

[rommel543]

In a nutshell Steam Punk is a merging of Victorian era, fantasy world like magic, and modern technology. Imagine a fantastical device that would generate a personal force field that you could strap to your wrist, but it's made with leather, brass tubes and gears and some sort of glowing green liquid that sealed with wax. Or Da Vinci's drawings of flying machines and submarines come to life, with the ability of modern crafts, yet in the same world where a horse is the main transportation and carrying a sword is common place.

I personally love steam-punked stuff. I've seen some great steam-punk mods done over the years, and some pictures from a steam-punk wedding.

[Heid the Ba']

I think a true writer writes because they have to, not because they hope anyone will read it. The words just keep coming even if you know you're just pouring them into the void. Yes, it helps to think that you aren't, but it is not the end goal of those who love the written word.

At the risk of being harsh, in this era of teh interwebs if a person can't find an audience as a writer there is something wrong with their writing or their subject. As Ara Pacis said, writing is simply a means of communication and writing into a void is no different from shouting into one. There is no mystical process involved in putting words on a page.

My dayjob involves a lot of writing and my hobby involves me writiing (and getting paid for) magazine articles. The former is a necessary evil and the latter is me showing off my knowledge and wordiness. I would suggest that ego and exhibitionism are the driving forces behind most writers. Without peer review or a readership how does one know if one's work has value? I could claim to be the world's greatest footballer but if I limit myself to kicking a ball about a park on my own I am simply deluding myself.

[Fazor]

I could claim to be the world's greatest footballer but if I limit myself to kicking a ball about a park on my own I am simply deluding myself.

But I can claim to like soccer (dangit!) and be content to kick a ball around the park. I can enjoy writing if no one reads it. It depends on what my personal goals and desires are.

[Gillianren]

At the risk of being harsh, in this era of teh interwebs if a person can't find an audience as a writer there is something wrong with their writing or their subject. As Ara Pacis said, writing is simply a means of communication and writing into a void is no different from shouting into one. There is no mystical process involved in putting words on a page.

People have to find their work first. There's more out there than ever before, which means any serious following for someone might just as well be considered a fluke. Besides, posting on the internet isn't the only method of writing. I have probably thousands of poems which I've written because I was in a poetry-writing mood. They're not available online, because the point of writing them was not to have other people read them.


My dayjob involves a lot of writing and my hobby involves me writiing (and getting paid for) magazine articles. The former is a necessary evil and the latter is me showing off my knowledge and wordiness. I would suggest that ego and exhibitionism are the driving forces behind most writers. Without peer review or a readership how does one know if one's work has value? I could claim to be the world's greatest footballer but if I limit myself to kicking a ball about a park on my own I am simply deluding myself.

It has value to me. It's certainly true that there aren't a lot of markets out there for poetry, and I doubt many people are searching the internet for a new obscure poet to love. That's not why I wrote them, and it's not why I write the movie reviews which I do post on the internet. Those, I post mostly because it's something I do every day, and my life needs more of those. I like it when people share with me the fact that they've read and enjoyed them, but I have a running joke in my journal about my "six readers," because I don't think many people out there read my reviews. There are a lot of reviewers on Rotten Tomatoes. The only real way to be drawn to mine is if you happen to be looking at "community reviews" for either movies I've reviewed recently or the obscure ones only I seem to have reviewed.

[Ara Pacis]

Well, one can be their own audience if they want. A lot of people try to intellectually pleasure themselves instead of engaging in actual intercourse with other human beings, whether we are talking about communications or the other type. I suppose Jared Lee Loughner's writing also pleased himself though few could discern its intent... or his.

[Swift]

I suppose Jared Lee Loughner's writing also pleased himself though few could discern its intent... or his.
I hope, Ara Pacis, you were not comparing any of the participants in this thread to Jared Lee Loughner. In any case, let's not take this thread in that direction.

[ToSeek]

There are plenty of examples of extremely gifted writers and artists who were reluctant to share their work with others. Emily Dickinson is the first one to come to mind, but she's far from the only one. Some people just don't care about finding an audience, and I for one don't see what the problem is with that.

[Buttercup]

There are plenty of examples of extremely gifted writers and artists who were reluctant to share their work with others. Emily Dickinson is the first one to come to mind, but she's far from the only one. Some people just don't care about finding an audience, and I for one don't see what the problem is with that.

I read an interview with Stephen King years ago, wherein he said it's the case with him and other writers he knows to be jealous of their writings, and reluctant to share. That surprised me (much younger then). As for my Yahoo Group, I'll admit I would likely have stopped if *no one* had given feedback in the past 1-1/2 years -- particularly as my original intention was for it to be a discussion forum. Apparently I've been cast in the role of "teacher"; which is flattering in a way, but my readers could give me a smidgen more feedback; it'd be appreciated, particularly as Yahoo is free and so are my posts.

[Heid the Ba']

There are plenty of examples of extremely gifted writers and artists who were reluctant to share their work with others. Emily Dickinson is the first one to come to mind, but she's far from the only one. Some people just don't care about finding an audience, and I for one don't see what the problem is with that.

Until Emily Dickinson's work was read by another it had no extrinsic value, and she didn't know how good it was. People say they have no interest in finding an audience or the opinion of others but I find that hard to believe.

I too have no problem with people not publishing their work, but then I have no problem with people running round a park kicking (or carrying) a football.

[Gillianren]

Until Emily Dickinson's work was read by another it had no extrinsic value, and she didn't know how good it was. People say they have no interest in finding an audience or the opinion of others but I find that hard to believe.

Even with the obvious example of Emily Dickinson presented? After all, she wanted her papers destroyed upon her death. Arguably, they were too important to her to want to share with anyone else.