Fashion Insanity: No Dress for Joan

[publius]

Remember the thread we had about this a while back? Well here's more proof that high fashion is certifiable:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1309288/Christina-Hendricks-BEG-Emmys-gown-shes-curvy.html

Mad Men's Christina Hendricks can't get 'em to make dresses for her. According to them, she's hideously fat.


-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

Yeah, but I take the writer's point about it being because the designers are: 1, lazy; 2, logistically challenged, and; 3, designing for 2D print and screen instead of 3D retail reality; and not in this case because they are gay.

[Strange]

Mad Men's Christina Hendricks can't get 'em to make dresses for her.

Just to be picky, it was about her not being able to borrow a frock. (I doubt she would want [or maybe even be able] to fork out the sort of money required to buy one).


Yeah, but I take the writer's point about it being because the designers are: 1, lazy; 2, logistically challenged, and; 3, designing for 2D print and screen instead of 3D retail reality; and not in this case because they are gay.

Can't really argue with that.

[novaderrik]

more proof that the wrong people are in charge of deciding what women should look like and what they should wear.
put straight guys like myself in charge of those things, and women like that would be considered the norm in the fashion world, and the scary skinny women would be shunned.

[GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter]

Well, that didn't take long.

[swampyankee]

more proof that the wrong people are in charge of deciding what women should look like and what they should wear.
put straight guys like myself in charge of those things, and women like that would be considered the norm in the fashion world, and the scary skinny women would be shunned.

Put scary straight men like us in charge of what women wear? Really bad idea. How about we put women in charge of what women wear? They seem to do OK for all us married men ;)

[Donnie B.]

A propos of nothing, I once had dinner with Christina Hendricks. (No, it wasn't a date, it was a public function -- but I was at her table.) She seemed very nice.

[Swift]

A propos of nothing, I once had dinner with Christina Hendricks. (No, it wasn't a date, it was a public function -- but I was at her table.) She seemed very nice.
Actually, that's more interest then a debate about women's fashions, at least for me. :D

[Atraveller]

78 per cent of men say they prefer curvaceous women, while just 7 per cent favour skinny girls

Count me in the 78% catagory. It is so much nicer when ladies have curves.

(I have never seen the show - but I would count Christina a very attractive lady base on the red carpet picture, and the promo pics from Mad Men)

[publius]

(I have never seen the show - but I would count Christina a very attractive lady base on the red carpet picture, and the promo pics from Mad Men)

Check it out -- heck I don't know if you can easily get Mad Men where you are but maybe you can get your hands on the DVDs. I heard about it, watched it once and got hooked. It's about the antics of a fictional Madison Avenue ad agency in the '60s. They go to incredible lengths to get the
'60s deco and fashion just right -- it's incredible to watch. They were the bad and good ol' days. The health and safety police hadn't gotten started and they all drink like fish and smoke like crazy. And they're also very politically incorrect. Nowadays, if anyone acted like that, they'd have them in some sensitivity training reeducation camp.


-Richard

[Tobin Dax]

A propos of nothing, I once had dinner with Christina Hendricks. (No, it wasn't a date, it was a public function -- but I was at her table.) She seemed very nice.

I'm guessing that an in-character date would have been a bad idea at that function.

[AndreasJ]

While I do agree that high fashion is MADINSANE in general, it seems a bit rich to condemn them for not lending someone a dress.

[swampyankee]

No, I think they're being condemned for describing Christina Hendricks and women who look like her as "hideously fat."

[Strange]

No, I think they're being condemned for describing Christina Hendricks and women who look like her as "hideously fat."

Except, as far as I can tell, they didn't. The "journalist" did (and I use the term cautiously as this is the Daily Mail, which can only loosely be described as a "newspaper").

[swampyankee]

Except, as far as I can tell, they didn't. The "journalist" did (and I use the term cautiously as this is the Daily Mail, which can only loosely be described as a "newspaper").

The journalist probably wishes she had the sort of figure as Christina Hendricks.

[Strange]

The journalist probably wishes she worked for a real newspaper.

[Donnie B.]

I'm guessing that an in-character date would have been a bad idea at that function.

Well, since at that time the character in question would have been Yo/Saff/Brig -- yes.

[NEOWatcher]

Just to be picky, it was about her not being able to borrow a frock. (I doubt she would want [or maybe even be able] to fork out the sort of money required to buy one).
While I do agree that this was probably the big reason for it, I still think that it's a lame reason.
I'm sure that there are a large number of people who won't go for a designer label simply because they don't know how it would look on a normal body.
You would think that a designer would jump at the chance to show how good the design looks regardless of body type (or at least within a reasonable norm).

[Strange]

While I do agree that this was probably the big reason for it, I still think that it's a lame reason.
I'm sure that there are a large number of people who won't go for a designer label simply because they don't know how it would look on a normal body.
You would think that a designer would jump at the chance to show how good the design looks regardless of body type (or at least within a reasonable norm).


Yes, but then they would have to make one in her size. That costs money and takes time. Some of them did give time as the reason - we don't know when they were approached but it is a busy time for them. And then, if they make it to fit her exactly, they probably can't sell it to anyone else much. And she probably can't afford to buy it. I'm not saying its a good excuse/reason but ... I doubt it as simple as a tabloid hack makes out.

[korjik]

You would think that since alot of the big red carpet affairs are pure advertising, the designers would do freebies.

[Nick Theodorakis]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.

Nick

[NEOWatcher]

Yes, but then they would have to make one in her size. That costs money and takes time. Some of them did give time as the reason - we don't know when they were approached but it is a busy time for them.
I can understand that, but I had assumed that they would still need time to make them specifically for the others too. After all, the other actresses aren't always shaped like a model and would require (at minimum) some customization/alteration work.


I doubt it as simple as a tabloid hack makes out.
I agree with that.

[HenrikOlsen]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg
Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.
I think that is actually exactly the point.
On the model, the dress looks good; on Christina, Christina looks good.
The point of Couture is to show beautiful dresses, not to show beautiful models.
If they made the dresses in a size that would fit real people, the people wearing them would take attention away from the dress and thus from the dressmaker and since everything is about exposing The BrandTM that's not seen as a GoodThingTM.

[SkepticJ]

So, then display the dresses on metal stick figures.

Cheaper, and you don't have poor, psychologically screwed up women wearing them.

I'll take a curvy woman, thank you. Who finds the Auschwitz-look attractive?

[chrissy]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.

Nick

IMO I think it looks better on Christina, sorry stick insect you need to eat food!

[Moose]

On the model, the dress looks good; on Christina, Christina looks good.

Well said, and very true.


Well, since at that time the character in question would have been Yo/Saff/Brig -- yes.

YoSaffBrig is a date where you savor each moment as if it were your very last... always a distinct possibility.

[korjik]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.

Nick

The dress looked :) better on :) the other :) model.

Heck, I couldn't even type that one with a straight face.

[swampyankee]

Nobody would notice the dress on Christine -- all the people would be saying "Wow, she looks fabulous!" -- which most people would be saying if she had her hair down, no makeup, and was wearing wellies, farmer's overalls, and an oversized sweatshirt. The designers want people to be saying "wow, what a dress!" especially if the female model who is wearing it could walk topless through Cincinnati without anybody paying attention.

I don't know why so many fashion designers seem to prefer female models who could be mistaken for 12 year-old boys, and I'm not sure I want to find out.

[HenrikOlsen]

Nobody would notice the dress on Christine -- all the people would be saying "Wow, she looks fabulous!" -- which most people would be saying if she had her hair down, no makeup, and was wearing wellies, farmer's overalls, and an oversized sweatshirt. The designers want people to be saying "wow, what a dress!" especially if the female model who is wearing it could walk topless through Cincinnati without anybody paying attention.

I don't know why so many fashion designers seem to prefer female models who could be mistaken for 12 year-old boys, and I'm not sure I want to find out.
You answered your question in the sentence above. Because they don't distract from the dress.

[Atraveller]

I don't know why so many fashion designers seem to prefer female models who could be mistaken for 12 year-old boys, and I'm not sure I want to find out.

It probably isn't a good idea to explore that here...

It seems that the designers don't want to design anything for a real woman size. (Christina is a size 12 - IIRC Marilyn was a size 14... Who thinks skinny is sexy?)

[korjik]

Nobody would notice the dress on Christine -- all the people would be saying "Wow, she looks fabulous!" -- which most people would be saying if she had her hair down, no makeup, and was wearing wellies, farmer's overalls, and an oversized sweatshirt. The designers want people to be saying "wow, what a dress!" especially if the female model who is wearing it could walk topless through Cincinnati without anybody paying attention.

I don't know why so many fashion designers seem to prefer female models who could be mistaken for 12 year-old boys, and I'm not sure I want to find out.

*cough* undersized sweatshirt *cough*cough*

:D

[Jens]

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.


Well, I seem to be quite a minority here. Though feminine curves have never turned me off, a lack of curves is also not anything that I ever found unattractive. I've always liked actresses like Winona Ryder, so I don't really find the views of the designers so hard to understand.

[AndreasJ]

If we're comparing the women, the comparison would've been fairer if the model had been smiling. But as Henrik and others have noted, the designers don't want us looking at the model's face (or other, ahem, attributes), but at the dress.

[Atraveller]

Story here in Oz about a size 10 model being classed as a "Plus" size.

click on "plus sized models" (http://today.ninemsn.com.au/)

insanity...

[korjik]

So, what used to be a large T-shirt is now an XL, so why is it suprising that a normal sized woman is now a plus size?

:)

Please dont hurt me...

:D

[Cookie]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.

Nick
IMHO, that dress looks better on that red headed woman, than on that Asian dude. :)

[Atraveller]

IMHO, that dress looks better on that red headed woman, than on that Asian dude. :)

:lol:

[Jens]

IMHO, that dress looks better on that red headed woman, than on that Asian dude. :)

I don't know, but a lot of Asian women look fairly "uncurvy" by some standards. I don't know if that merits the accusation that they are "dudes." In any case, the model on the right doesn't look particularly masculine to me.

[AndreasJ]

So, what used to be a large T-shirt is now an XL, so why is it suprising that a normal sized woman is now a plus size?

:)

Please dont hurt me...

:D

The joke is that sizing was ever accurate enough you could tell an L and an XL apart without looking at the labels.

[Atraveller]

I don't know, but a lot of Asian women look fairly "uncurvy" by some standards. I don't know if that merits the accusation that they are "dudes." In any case, the model on the right doesn't look particularly masculine to me.

After living in Thailand for a number of years - I have to confess it was still hard to tell the Lady-Boys from the Ladies. A big clue - if she looks like she needs a shave - she ain't a she...

:lol:

[NEOWatcher]

... A big clue - if she looks like she needs a shave - she ain't a she...
In some other nationalities, that's still not a clue. :whistle:

[Noclevername]

Someone on another board posted this picture comparing Christina Hendricks with a fashion model wearing the same dress:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FW86_jO7k_A/THs6BC11akI/AAAAAAAB95g/UITlYSIWVQU/s1600/Christina%2BHendricks%2B1.jpg

Now tell me that the dress looked better on the model.

Nick

The dress itself looks like leftover fabric remnants on either of them. But then I'm a jeans-and-t-shirt guy myself-- I find it impossible to take all this fashionista stuff seriously. It keeps you from being naked in public, it's done its job.

[Moose]

You answered your question in the sentence above. Because they don't distract from the dress.

Almost certainly true. The model takes nothing at all away from the dress. And yet... Christina makes that dress look good.

[SkepticJ]

The dress itself looks like leftover fabric remnants on either of them. But then I'm a jeans-and-t-shirt guy myself-- I find it impossible to take all this fashionista stuff seriously. It keeps you from being naked in public, it's done its job.


Well, you're a het- man, presumably.

I don't know if it's acculturation, or their wiring, but women* just love frilly, colorful, impractical garments.

It's probably cultural; upper class men dressed quite differently a few centuries ago.

I don't begrudge all fashion, some of it looks nice, but most of it looks like aesthetic abominations--the clothing equivalent of Brutalist architecture.

*Of course not all women. Bless the tomboys and geeky girls.